Should there be a Modifier for Extra SFX?

[zornwil]

Originally posted by Farkling

As I ponder it, I think the IPE should be a +1/4, or perhaps there is a 1/4 lim on it.

 

The attack is still VISIBLE, the energy form is obscured. Whaddaya think?

 

I picture that the detect works on the same things that would block the character's targetting senses...nebulous, I know. I'd not thought it over in specific terms.

 

I dunno, I'm inclined to keep it at +1/2 - after all it IS pretty hard to understand how this power works (even for the GM I suspect ). But as you know I have some bias against the power itself, so I'm not the best person to ask when it comes to ratcheting down the limitation you put on it earlier, so let's see what others say as well.

 

By the way, I got confused on threads and almost answered completely nonsensically regarding how the Summon isn't IPE because you don't apply that for created things in general, but why do you bring this up, I don't see IPE, etc. - what saved me from submitting such a response was when I looked down through the thread to find where you mentioned IPE earlier!

[schir1964]

All SFX

 

Let's stir up the pot a bit.

 

If you want "Affects All SFX" legally, per the word of Steve Long even, instead of going with Energy Blast, go with a Drain.

 

Drain and some other adjustment powers by default get the "Affects All SFX" as thier base functionality.

 

Example:

Drain vs EB (Affects All SFX)

Drain vs HKA (Affects All SFX)

Drain vs RKA (Affects All SFX)

 

As a house rule, I require a SFX for the base, and you can expand it from there.

 

Just My Humble Opinion

 

- Christopher Mullins

[zornwil]

Re: All SFX

 

Originally posted by schir1964

Let's stir up the pot a bit.

 

If you want "Affects All SFX" legally, per the word of Steve Long even, instead of going with Energy Blast, go with a Drain.

 

Drain and some other adjustment powers by default get the "Affects All SFX" as thier base functionality.

 

Example:

Drain vs EB (Affects All SFX)

Drain vs HKA (Affects All SFX)

Drain vs RKA (Affects All SFX)

 

As a house rule, I require a SFX for the base, and you can expand it from there.

 

Just My Humble Opinion

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

I'm not following, how does this play into firing an Energy Blast of "all" SFX?

[schir1964]

It's relates in that both allow for a an All Inclusive ability, which goes against just about everything else in Hero. The only exceptions are Life Support (Immunity To Everything) and the aforementioned Adjustment Powers.

 

IOW: Both allow for the ability to cover an Infinite Number Of SFX.

 

Example:

I want to be immune to all Fire Attacks.

Nope, sorry, you should buy up enough Defense with the limitation (Only vs Fire) to make the character immune to most of the attacks you can expect in a campaign.

 

Even Desolidification requires that there be one SFX defined that can affect the character. And EB (All SFX) would automatically be able to affect any Desolid character, therefore, bypassing the need for Affects Desolid, which by itself is worth a +1/2 Advantage.

 

Both "All SFX" and "Affects All SFX" are ways to make a character a powerhouse which there is no defense against. Both should have Stop Sign next to them to show they can easily unbalance a game.

 

While not exactly the same thing, they both will have the same kind of effect in a campaign if allowed to grow to thier maximum potential.

 

Just pointing out that there is a least one precendent for this concept that is technically legal by the game rules.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[zornwil]

Originally posted by schir1964

It's relates in that both allow for a an All Inclusive ability, which goes against just about everything else in Hero. The only exceptions are Life Support (Immunity To Everything) and the aforementioned Adjustment Powers.

 

IOW: Both allow for the ability to cover an Infinite Number Of SFX.

 

Example:

I want to be immune to all Fire Attacks.

Nope, sorry, you should buy up enough Defense with the limitation (Only vs Fire) to make the character immune to most of the attacks you can expect in a campaign.

 

Even Desolidification requires that there be one SFX defined that can affect the character. And EB (All SFX) would automatically be able to affect any Desolid character, therefore, bypassing the need for Affects Desolid, which by itself is worth a +1/2 Advantage.

 

Both "All SFX" and "Affects All SFX" are ways to make a character a powerhouse which there is no defense against. Both should have Stop Sign next to them to show they can easily unbalance a game.

 

While not exactly the same thing, they both will have the same kind of effect in a campaign if allowed to grow to thier maximum potential.

 

Just pointing out that there is a least one precendent for this concept that is technically legal by the game rules.

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

Ah, I see. Yes, I have a problem with "Drain vs EB" without SFX definition, but isn't there a rule anyway in HERO requiring that SFX be defined? Not near my book. Regardless, Steve has indicated that SFX trump as applicable. I still think the essential problem with the EB with all SFX as opposed to Drain EB is that the former is being explicitly asked for whereas the system strongly implies the latter will have SFX limitations somewhere along the line, as all powers naturally do.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by zornwil

Ah, I see. Yes, I have a problem with "Drain vs EB" without SFX definition, but isn't there a rule anyway in HERO requiring that SFX be defined? Not near my book. Regardless, Steve has indicated that SFX trump as applicable. I still think the essential problem with the EB with all SFX as opposed to Drain EB is that the former is being explicitly asked for whereas the system strongly implies the latter will have SFX limitations somewhere along the line, as all powers naturally do.

The book says that all powers must have SFX -- but it doesnt specify on upper limit.

 

The adjustment powers specifically interact w/ SFX via the Variable Effect Advantage, but other Powers arent as clearly delineated.

 

I'm comfortable with Gary's +3/4 for "All SFX" as an extention of Variable SFX; and by inclusion -1/4 less (+1/2) for a limited group of no more than four simultaneous SFX. Eminently logical, as usual for Gary.

[schir1964]

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

The book says that all powers must have SFX -- but it doesnt specify on upper limit.

 

The adjustment powers specifically interact w/ SFX via the Variable Effect Advantage, but other Powers arent as clearly delineated...

 

Sorry, I keep forgetting to clarify with the Adjustment Power thing.

 

Drain vs EB

You must specify the SFX of the "Drain" (Example: Energy Siphon).

 

However, the target (EB in this case) automatically includes "Any and All SFX of EB" by default. You add the +1/4 SFX modifier and you are no longer affecting all EBs, but all powers with stated SFX.

 

Clunky mechanic in my opinion, but it is just my opinion.

 

Hope that clarifies things a bit more.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Caveman]

Originally posted by Farkling

As I ponder it, I think the IPE should be a +1/4, or perhaps there is a 1/4 lim on it.

 

The attack is still VISIBLE, the energy form is obscured. Whaddaya think?

 

I picture that the detect works on the same things that would block the character's targetting senses...nebulous, I know. I'd not thought it over in specific terms.

I believe that it is mentioned in FREd about IPE. if the attack is invisible but the SOURCE of it isn't(e.g. gun) the value of IPE is halved(e.g. +1/4). I am paraphrasing but it essentially is that.