Mental Duplication

[Pteryx]

If this is addressed in 6e somewhere, forgive my asking a redundant question since I'm stuck with only a 5e book... but how exactly would you go about building a form of "duplication" that doesn't actually involve separate bodies, individually targetable limbs, or any other physical component? I'm thinking something like D&D 3.5's Schism psionic power here -- the ability to act multiple times in a phase, but the extra actions of the "duplicate" can only be mental in nature. -- Pteryx

[Lucius]

Two obvious solutions are

 

Extra SPD only for mental actions

 

Make the Duplicate an Ai

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is an expert in duplication

[Christopher]

I am pretty sure this specific thing is in no books. The closest is the Multiple heads of a Hydra or the Feedback Limitaiton, however there each head/body and mind is targetted, damaged and also healed seperately.

Even the AI approach does not technically allow the AI to control the human body.

 

But then again what this second mind can do while the first is acting physically is limited: When mind A fights he needs both eyes exclusively for that. Mind B could take control of the offhand and point that weapon in another way, but he had no targetting sense to aim that attack with.

While you could think of it as: Mind A shoots target X with main hand attack, Mind A reliquishes Control of Eyes and Neck, Mind B redirects them to Target Y and shoots them with the offhand weapon this is still highly distracting and inefficient. Indeed all you really did is create a very complicated Special Effect for using 6E's Multiple Attack Maneuver, not a power.

 

 

Having said all this, I thought about making an Alien with just that ability - two minds in one body. Granted, this alien had 270° Sight (with 3 facet eyes) and four arms - so unlike a human this being could effectively fight two targets at the same time.

The build is a simple "Duplication, Split Mind (-0)".

One thing to consider is how conflicting maneuvers would interact: When Mind A dodges, but Mind B Haymakers an attack what is the DCV? The fairest I could think of was "the worst modifiers apply". In the example (Dodge + Haymaker) it would be -5 DCV. If Mind B would haymaker one target while Mind A is using Cover Maneuver on another target it would be -2 OCV, -5 DCV. Think of it likre this: The second mind cannot move the body much without ruining the other minds maneuver.

Considering all those Limitations I will propably go the AI/Computer route too. It is mostly about doing mental activities while the main body if fighting after all.

[Pteryx]

The way I'm conceiving of things, the two minds wouldn't be sharing the body so much as the "duplicate" would be a passenger in the body of the "original". The duplicate would have the necessary limited Clairvoyance to perceive what the original sees, but couldn't turn the head to look at something else. Likewise, it couldn't take control of an arm; instead, its contributions would be things like being a source of "second chance" PER rolls, using Mental Powers (whether in combat or just to carry on two Mind Link conversations at once while keeping both straight), or just thinking a situation over while the original is too busy dealing with a crisis to do so. -- Pteryx

[Christopher]

That sounds like a Computer Rules Construct without a Focus or seperate body. Give it "affected as human class of mind" Complication.

Don't think it need Clairvoyance, it should be able to share input. Unless of course it wants to use attack powers (like Mental Powers)

 

"Second chance" PER Rolls:

You might simply simualte this with a high PER Roll/bonus to PER:

The chance of one 11- Roll to fail is 37.5%.

The chance of two 11- Rolls to both fail is about 14 %.

Adding +2 to the 11- gives you a 16.2% fail chance, adding +3 gives you 9.26%.

So +2 too +3 can simulate "having a second roll".

 

using Mental Powers (whether in combat or just to carry on two Mind Link conversations at once while keeping both straight):

Carrying on two conversations might be done with simply adding a level of "Rapid" to Mind Link. Mind link is close enough to a sense power that it might get be applicable. I would think giving a Computer Rapid for Speech would allow it to make multiple conversations over different terminals at the same time.

 

The attack powers are a different matter:

The second being would need the actuall powers to be used. Wich means going full duplicate or a really expesinve Computer Construct.

This is just as bad and potentially unbalancing as "having it controll the arm to shoot the target with the offhand".

Again the senses are a problem: If the Primary mind isn't attacking the same target (like attacking somethign else or dodging) I would say the normal Targetting senses aren't properly focussed on the target to count. The Second Mind needs a sepererate way of targgeting (including using Mind Scan lock on).

It is really important that if it can attack, it can be attacked (and disabeled) in return. But as I understand it can't do anything when the Primary Mind is knocked out.

 

"just thinking a situation over while the original is too busy dealing with a crisis to do so":

That is something the Computer bought as Focus in your pocket can do, so the Computer bought without Focus in your Mind can do it as well. It needs a seperate isntance of all the Skill needed to do the work of course. But it is one of the most simple cases.

[Pteryx]

That sounds like a Computer Rules Construct without a Focus or seperate body. Give it "affected as human class of mind" Complication.

Don't think it need Clairvoyance, it should be able to share input. Unless of course it wants to use attack powers (like Mental Powers)

 

"Second chance" PER Rolls:

You might simply simualte this with a high PER Roll/bonus to PER:

The chance of one 11- Roll to fail is 37.5%.

The chance of two 11- Rolls to both fail is about 14 %.

Adding +2 to the 11- gives you a 16.2% fail chance, adding +3 gives you 9.26%.

So +2 too +3 can simulate "having a second roll".

 

using Mental Powers (whether in combat or just to carry on two Mind Link conversations at once while keeping both straight):

Carrying on two conversations might be done with simply adding a level of "Rapid" to Mind Link. Mind link is close enough to a sense power that it might get be applicable. I would think giving a Computer Rapid for Speech would allow it to make multiple conversations over different terminals at the same time.

 

The attack powers are a different matter:

The second being would need the actuall powers to be used. Wich means going full duplicate or a really expesinve Computer Construct.

This is just as bad and potentially unbalancing as "having it controll the arm to shoot the target with the offhand".

Again the senses are a problem: If the Primary mind isn't attacking the same target (like attacking somethign else or dodging) I would say the normal Targetting senses aren't properly focussed on the target to count. The Second Mind needs a sepererate way of targgeting (including using Mind Scan lock on).

It is really important that if it can attack, it can be attacked (and disabeled) in return. But as I understand it can't do anything when the Primary Mind is knocked out.

 

"just thinking a situation over while the original is too busy dealing with a crisis to do so":

That is something the Computer bought as Focus in your pocket can do, so the Computer bought without Focus in your Mind can do it as well. It needs a seperate isntance of all the Skill needed to do the work of course. But it is one of the most simple cases.

But as I understand it can't do anything when the Primary Mind is knocked out.

 

That's correct.