Fetish Sorcery, a Focus based System

[Markdoc]

Ah - I was assuming that the additional Mana would be lost and recover slowly like your own mana. In other words an Aid would boost your maximum Mana up to the maximum extra permitted (and since it was constant hold it there) but that it doesn't top you up repeatedly, with no upper limit.  Think of it as analogous to BOD. If you have an Aid boosting BOD, built the same way, you have an elevated BOD score. If you take damage, it's going to have to heal - you don't suddenly get extra Aid beyond the points you paid for, to boost it back to and above the starting score.

 

To put it more clearly, if you have 10 BOD, and you get 6 points from Aid (constant) you have 16. If you get hit by an axe for 8 BOD you now have 8 BOD (2 normal + 6 Aid). You don't get that 6 plus another 8 on top of it to repair damage - if you did, that would mean that the Aid was actually providing 14 points of Aid, not the 6 that is the theoretical maximum. At least that's how we have always played it: otherwise continuous BOD Aid would be a hugely efficient form of regeneration - even one point of it would return 4-6 BOD per turn, with no upper limit.

 

I was assuming that Mana works the same way, simply because otherwise even a small Aid would allow you to do an end-run around the Mana rules. If it can top you up to full no matter how much you have used, then it would be just as good for powering large spells which drained much mana ... you'd just have to wait a few phases. And perhaps more to the point, it would mean that Aid had effectively no upper limit on how much it could provide - only how much it could provide per phase. I'm pretty sure Aid doesn't work like that.

 

In most cases. of course, that's not an issue, because Aid is used to boost a static number (if you have 12d6 Energy blast then the Aid simply adds to your total). But just like BOD, if your energy blast is drained, I have never assumed that Aid would top it back up to to boosted total - merely that it would offset some of the loss. For example an Energy Blast boosted from 12d6 to 15d6 and then drained 6d6 is a 9d6 energy blast (at least until the drain wears off) - Aid doesn't pop it up to 12d6 and then 15d6 again after two phases.

 

Maybe we have different interpretations?

 

Cheers, Mark

[Lucius]

Here is how I see it working.

 

Mage has his END Reserve/mana pool, let's say at 50.

 

Mage undergoes the initiatiation ritual or whatever it is that bestows the Magery III Power. The Aid kicks in, generating an extra 15 pts of mana.

 

Mage either uses that mana or doesn't. Either way, it's gone next phase, because there's a Limitation so that only one use can be in effect at a time, and next phase, because the Power is Constant and Persistent and Always On, another 15 pts of mana is available.

 

If somehow that's NOT the case, if the Aid isn't happening each phase, then the Constant Advantage is basically null and void. Not to mention the Persistent and Always On.

 

 

 

Okay, I just checked the rules on Adjustment Powers and apparently, with the write up I have, the Aid can't happen every phase, only every turn, because even if the points are expended, the next Aid can't come online until after the first "Fades." Normally, it's an Advantage to INCREASE the fade rate. I guess I need a custom Advantage to DECREASE the fade rate to make this power work the way I intended it to. I could slap the Instant Limitation on it, but that's too obviously munchkin and arguably still doesn't change the "fade rate." 

 

But it still works, it's just that instead of every phase, you get the extra mana every turn.

 

Oops, wait. You actually get it twice a turn. Your "max benefit" for Magery III is 12 Active points, even if the set effect is 6.

 

You certainly don't get it once-and-then-never-again!

 

 

edit, one last note for now: I checked the rules and if you have extra END (or STUN or BOD) from an Adjustment Power, you lose those first. So if the mage has been using the mana from Magery and then somehow the Aid was shut down, their mana pool remains at 50. Contrariwise, if the mage had to use 25 END in one phase, their mana pool would drop to 40 and STAY at 40; the Aid doesn't "top up" the mana pool or cause it to RECover faster than it otherwise would. If the mana pool's RECovery is Limited to only once a week, that missing mana stays missing for a week. Aid is not Heal.

 

 

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary suggests leaving the Set Effect and Only One At a Time elements, and buying further Aid "only to increase Max" so as to let the character get the full benefit up to 4 times a turn without actually letting them get more than 15 pts of extra mana at any given time.

[Markdoc]

edit, one last note for now: I checked the rules and if you have extra END (or STUN or BOD) from an Adjustment Power, you lose those first. So if the mage has been using the mana from Magery and then somehow the Aid was shut down, their mana pool remains at 50. Contrariwise, if the mage had to use 25 END in one phase, their mana pool would drop to 40 and STAY at 40; the Aid doesn't "top up" the mana pool or cause it to RECover faster than it otherwise would. If the mana pool's RECovery is Limited to only once a week, that missing mana stays missing for a week. Aid is not Heal.

 

 

I think we are pretty close to agreement here. But as I see it - and checking the rules last night seems to confirm that, what Aid does is effectively increase (temporarily) the active points in your power - whatever that power is. For the sake of this discussion "power" is actually a characteristic. But it doesn't exempt the power from any existing rules/modifications. So adding 15 active points to an EB via Aid gives you an extra 3d6. Adding 15 active points to an AP EB via Aid gives you an extra 2d6 AP. not 3d6. You don't get AP for free.

 

Likewise, adding 6 (or 12) BOD or MANA boosts the total active points you have, but it does not - as far as I can tell - give you access to a pool of infinitely renewing BOD or MANA which is exempt from the normal rules on recovery. In other words you don't get regeneration for free on your BOD or Mana. If Aid did work like this, it would be a huge boost for the cost effectiveness of Aid (and render regeneration redundant), but the optional rules on healing allowing it to be applied repeatedly to new injuries, suggests that this is not the default. It it was the default we wouldn't need an additional optional rule.

 

So - to take your example above, I agree, if you used some or all of the extra Mana granted by Aid, and then Magery was somehow shut down, you would still have your normal Mana untouched. My point is that in this situation, if Magery was then restored (let's say it was shut down by a transient "anti-magery" drain, the Mana that you had used would still have been used. You would not suddenly gain a new dose of Mana - it's just that your maximum would go up to the maximum it was boosted to before.

 

As I understand it, the Aid boosts your maximum Mana (so far, so good) and thus gives you some additional Mana that you can use. Once that Mana is used, it's used (just like regular Mana). If your maximum Mana is kept elevated by a continuous Aid, that does not somehow exempt you from the Mana recovery rules. It just means that you start off with a slightly larger pool - it's not that you can "use it once and never again". It's more that when you use it, it recovers exactly the same way regular Mana does. What the continuous gains you in this situation is essentially that your maximum mana is always elevated (as long as the Aid refreshes faster than the fade rate) - you don't need to spend a couple of valuable phases getting it up to speed when you want to call on it.

 

Does that make more sense?

 

cheers, Mark

[Lucius]

I think I'm beginning to see where you're coming from.

 

So if the power construct I made doesn't do what I meant it to do, what WOULD do what I meant it to do?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary suggests Healing

[Markdoc]

As I suggested, a simple naked advantage, using Reduced END (I'm working off the idea that END is functioning here as a Mana proxy, which is basically accurate in terms of how it functions in the game, it's just that Mana/End recovers more slowly than ordinary END). I've used this approach in my own game for years, which that Magic works off END - but that when you use END to power magic, it recovers as Long Term Endurance. The concept is that magic is inherently draining to cast - think of Gandalf trying to cast Hold Portal on the door the Balrog was trying to open: he was exhausted. Not only did he stop casting create light, to conserve his energies, but he had to be helped along for a while and was still tired (ie: low on END) some time later when he faced off with the Balrog at the bridge.

 

So, if that's the case, you could build the power like this (an example only, you might want to adjust the active points)

 

Magery 1. Reduced End (0 END, +1/2) on up to 10 active points, only to power spells (-1/2) (15 active, 10 real). This would trim 2 END (or Mana) off any spell you cast. Meaning minor utility spells (up to 10 active points would be free, and larger powers would use 2 less END (or Mana) per casting. You'd also need to include the detect, but your writeup is fine for that.

 

Cheers, Mark

[Lucius]

.

Magery I:  (Total: 34 Active Cost, 19 Real Cost) Detect Magic A Large Class Of Things 11-/17- (Mental Group), Sense (12 Active Points); Unified Power (-1/4) (Real Cost: 10) <b>plus</b> +1 Overall (12 Active Points); Limited Power Only for magic (Skill roll, Detect Magic, +1 OCV to target a spell, etc.) (-1), Unified Power (-1/4), Perceivable (Others with Magery can tell you have Magery when you use it; -1/4) (Real Cost: 5) <b>plus</b> Healing Mana 1 point (standard effect: 1 point), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; +1 1/2) (10 Active Points); Limited Power Self only (-1), Unified Power (-1/4), Perceivable (Others with Magery can tell you have Magery when you use it; -1/4) (Real Cost: 4)

 

Magery II:  (Total: 78 Active Cost, 41 Real Cost) Detect Magic A Large Class Of Things 11-/17- (Mental Group), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Partially Penetrative, Sense (22 Active Points); Unified Power (-1/4) (Real Cost: 18) <b>plus</b> +2 Overall (24 Active Points); Limited Power Only for magic (Skill roll, Detect Magic, +1 OCV to target a spell, etc.) (-1), Unified Power (-1/4), Perceivable (Others with Magery can tell you have Magery when you use it; -1/4) (Real Cost: 10) <b>plus</b> Healing Mana 1d6 (standard effect: 3 points), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; +1 1/2) (32 Active Points); Limited Power Self only (-1), Unified Power (-1/4), Perceivable (Others with Magery can tell you have Magery when you use it; -1/4) (Real Cost: 13)

 

Magery III:  (Total: 110 Active Cost, 57 Real Cost) Detect Magic A Large Class Of Things 11-/17- (Mental Group), Discriminatory, Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Penetrative, Sense (32 Active Points); Unified Power (-1/4) (Real Cost: 26) <b>plus</b> +3 Overall (36 Active Points); Limited Power Only for magic (Skill roll, Detect Magic, +1 OCV to target a spell, etc.) (-1), Unified Power (-1/4), Perceivable (Others with Magery can tell you have Magery when you use it; -1/4) (Real Cost: 14) <b>plus</b> Healing Mana 1d6+1 (standard effect: 4 points), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; +1 1/2) (42 Active Points); Limited Power Self only (-1), Unified Power (-1/4), Perceivable (Others with Magery can tell you have Magery when you use it; -1/4) (Real Cost: 17)

 

 

Hm. Yeah, probably better to go with the Naked Advantage.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I always go with a palindromedary tagline though.

[Mzimwi]

What brought this on? I just started working on this project again! Thanks.

[Lucius]

What brought this on? I just started working on this project again! Thanks.

Spirits.

 

I need to redo the above with the Naked Advantage. Markdoc makes a habit of being right.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And the Palindromedary Secret Society.

[Mzimwi]

Is your work on spirits online? Love to see....

[Lucius]

Is your work on spirits online? Love to see....

 

If you're asking me, the answer is, most of it I suppose, but not gathered together in a convenient place. It wouldn't be anywhere online except here on herogames.com though, if that's what you mean.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wonders how Markdoc does it.

[Mzimwi]

you do understand that you have an obligation to the public.....gifts of mythopoeitic genus carry a burden, ndugu wangu.

[NuSoardGraphite]

.

Magery I: (Total: 34 Active Cost, 19 Real Cost) Detect Magic A Large Class Of Things 11-/17- (Mental Group), Sense (12 Active Points); Unified Power (-1/4) (Real Cost: 10) <b>plus</b> +1 Overall (12 Active Points); Limited Power Only for magic (Skill roll, Detect Magic, +1 OCV to target a spell, etc.) (-1), Unified Power (-1/4), Perceivable (Others with Magery can tell you have Magery when you use it; -1/4) (Real Cost: 5) <b>plus</b> Healing Mana 1 point (standard effect: 1 point), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; +1 1/2) (10 Active Points); Limited Power Self only (-1), Unified Power (-1/4), Perceivable (Others with Magery can tell you have Magery when you use it; -1/4) (Real Cost: 4)

 

Magery II: (Total: 78 Active Cost, 41 Real Cost) Detect Magic A Large Class Of Things 11-/17- (Mental Group), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Partially Penetrative, Sense (22 Active Points); Unified Power (-1/4) (Real Cost: 18) <b>plus</b> +2 Overall (24 Active Points); Limited Power Only for magic (Skill roll, Detect Magic, +1 OCV to target a spell, etc.) (-1), Unified Power (-1/4), Perceivable (Others with Magery can tell you have Magery when you use it; -1/4) (Real Cost: 10) <b>plus</b> Healing Mana 1d6 (standard effect: 3 points), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; +1 1/2) (32 Active Points); Limited Power Self only (-1), Unified Power (-1/4), Perceivable (Others with Magery can tell you have Magery when you use it; -1/4) (Real Cost: 13)

 

Magery III: (Total: 110 Active Cost, 57 Real Cost) Detect Magic A Large Class Of Things 11-/17- (Mental Group), Discriminatory, Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Penetrative, Sense (32 Active Points); Unified Power (-1/4) (Real Cost: 26) <b>plus</b> +3 Overall (36 Active Points); Limited Power Only for magic (Skill roll, Detect Magic, +1 OCV to target a spell, etc.) (-1), Unified Power (-1/4), Perceivable (Others with Magery can tell you have Magery when you use it; -1/4) (Real Cost: 14) <b>plus</b> Healing Mana 1d6+1 (standard effect: 4 points), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger requires a Turn or more to reset; +1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; +1 1/2) (42 Active Points); Limited Power Self only (-1), Unified Power (-1/4), Perceivable (Others with Magery can tell you have Magery when you use it; -1/4) (Real Cost: 17)

 

 

Hm. Yeah, probably better to go with the Naked Advantage.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

I always go with a palindromedary tagline though.

By the gods, thats so esoteric and utterly indecipherable by anyone new to the system. Do we have better and more legible ways of statting these things out?