TheDarkness Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Relates to a question I put up on the 6th edition forum, but is from Champions complete. I'm preparing to judge a game, and it's been a long time since I played Champions, so I'm doing a lot of prep-work. One of the things I'm working on is vehicle design. To make sure I'm understanding the rules, I'm back engineering a vehicle from the list in the Champions book, specifically a motorcycle. From p. 216 Name Size OCV+ Mass (KB) STR DEF BODY DEX OCV DCV SPD Move MAX CostMotorcycle 2.5x1x1m +0 200kg (-1) 20 4 11 20 7 7 3 56m x4 672m 133/27 The problem is, I can't get the active cost to work. Size is 1 according to this page and page 162, size 1 costs 5 points, and gives a base strength of 15, raise STR to twenty is 5 more points, and the size gives the base BODY of 11. To raise DEX from 10 to 20 is 20 points, to raise OCV and DCV from 3 to 7 is 40 points, to raise speed from 2 to 3 is 10 points, to raise PD and ED from 2 to 4 is 6 more points. STAT TOTAL=86 Add 56 meters of running is 56 points, add the extra multiplier to make x4 non-combat movement is 5 points. POWER TOTAL=61 Now, if I assume that the vehicle gets a base running of 12m like a character, this becomes POWER TOTAL=53, but I suspect this is not the case, otherwise every submarine would technically have a 12m run. This puts the active cost at either 147, or 139, not the 133 the manual lists. Furthermore, this does not figure in that powers for a vehicle have to be bought to zero endurance or similar things. So the powers cost is likely higher, since the list does not suggest charges. What the heck am I missing? Also, just to confuse me further, I decided to compare with the V-Jet on page 215, and for some reason, the V-Jet has 7 OCV and DCV, but paid 30 for each. Since I'm assuming the starting value is still supposed to be 3, at 5 cp for 1 OCV or DCV, it should be 20. But because I can't get my head wrapped around a simple motorcycle, I'm assuming I'm missing something. I feel like I'm getting closer to understanding, but that just could be the sign of imminent breakdown... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comic Posted October 13, 2015 Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Most 'street legal' vehicles have Images (headlights, horn), and while I imagine most GM's give those for free, some might not. However, I'm not a vehicles guy, so won't be much help to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkness Posted October 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2015 Most 'street legal' vehicles have Images (headlights, horn), and while I imagine most GM's give those for free, some might not. However, I'm not a vehicles guy, so won't be much help to you. The problem is, my cost is already higher than the listed cost, and it doesn't include buying zero endurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penthau Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 The problem is, my cost is already higher than the listed cost, and it doesn't include buying zero endurance. Isn't there a limitation about the defenses not protecting the passengers that could be applied? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkness Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Isn't there a limitation about the defenses not protecting the passengers that could be applied? That's an idea! Damn, still puts me over the points they are saying, the defenses amount to 6 points. Maybe it's assuming a charge, instead of reduced endurance. My model, at the final cost, is still within a couple points of the cost they are saying, but the difference concerns me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoloOfEarth Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 FYI: Vehicles' STR and Movement powers cost no END in both CC and 6E. And 61 - 12 = 49, not 53. Also, a vehicle comes with 12m Ground Movement and 4m Swimming for free; you can shave off another 2 points by buying off the Swimming. (A submarine would presumably buy back the Ground Movement.) I actually come out under their 133 points, if applying the -1/2 Limitation on the 4 DEF. Name Size OCV+ Mass (KB) STR DEF BODY DEX OCV DCV SPD Move MAX CostMotorcycle 2.5x1x1m +0 200kg (-1) 20 4 11 20 7 7 3 56m x4 672m 133/27 So, Size (5 pts), STR (5 pts), DEF (2 pts), DEX (20 pts), OCV (20 pts), DCV (20 pts), SPD (10 pts) Move (49 pts - 2 pts) = 129 pts. Leaves 4 points for a headlight. Or, if you don't put the Limitation on the 4 DEF, you get Size (5 pts), STR (5 pts), DEF (6 pts), DEX (20 pts), OCV (20 pts), DCV (20 pts), SPD (10 pts) Move (49 pts - 2 pts) = 133pts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Baker Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Bolo has it. As for the V-Jet, the OCV and DCV are indeed 20 each. That's a misprint in the book. The characteristics do total 160, with the correct values of 20 and 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkness Posted October 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 FYI: Vehicles' STR and Movement powers cost no END in both CC and 6E. And 61 - 12 = 49, not 53. Also, a vehicle comes with 12m Ground Movement and 4m Swimming for free; you can shave off another 2 points by buying off the Swimming. (A submarine would presumably buy back the Ground Movement.) I actually come out under their 133 points, if applying the -1/2 Limitation on the 4 DEF. Name Size OCV+ Mass (KB) STR DEF BODY DEX OCV DCV SPD Move MAX Cost Motorcycle 2.5x1x1m +0 200kg (-1) 20 4 11 20 7 7 3 56m x4 672m 133/27 So, Size (5 pts), STR (5 pts), DEF (2 pts), DEX (20 pts), OCV (20 pts), DCV (20 pts), SPD (10 pts) Move (49 pts - 2 pts) = 129 pts. Leaves 4 points for a headlight. Or, if you don't put the Limitation on the 4 DEF, you get Size (5 pts), STR (5 pts), DEF (6 pts), DEX (20 pts), OCV (20 pts), DCV (20 pts), SPD (10 pts) Move (49 pts - 2 pts) = 133pts. FYI: Vehicles' STR and Movement powers cost no END in both CC and 6E. And 61 - 12 = 49, not 53. Also, a vehicle comes with 12m Ground Movement and 4m Swimming for free; you can shave off another 2 points by buying off the Swimming. (A submarine would presumably buy back the Ground Movement.) I actually come out under their 133 points, if applying the -1/2 Limitation on the 4 DEF. Name Size OCV+ Mass (KB) STR DEF BODY DEX OCV DCV SPD Move MAX Cost Motorcycle 2.5x1x1m +0 200kg (-1) 20 4 11 20 7 7 3 56m x4 672m 133/27 So, Size (5 pts), STR (5 pts), DEF (2 pts), DEX (20 pts), OCV (20 pts), DCV (20 pts), SPD (10 pts) Move (49 pts - 2 pts) = 129 pts. Leaves 4 points for a headlight. Or, if you don't put the Limitation on the 4 DEF, you get Size (5 pts), STR (5 pts), DEF (6 pts), DEX (20 pts), OCV (20 pts), DCV (20 pts), SPD (10 pts) Move (49 pts - 2 pts) = 133pts. Thanks! I'll try this myself and see what totals I come out with. just to make sure I'm following, though, as you point out, I might want to double check my math! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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