Tungsten Shephard

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns Yes and here is why. Lex Luthor is a normal, well ok he is more than normal, but for purposes of discussion he is basically normal. His nemesis is the most powerful being on the planet. This almost all-powerful being could squish him like a bug if he wanted to. Does Lex give up? NO Lex does not give up, he does not throw away his dreams or ambitions. He works as hard as he can behind the scenes, discovers the weakness of his opponents. He uses the weakness of his opponent to win the contest at hand, and simply walks away without harm. Eventually against all odds Lex Luthor applies Sun Tzu's "Art of War" against his chief rival, Superman, and lives another day to tell about it. This is what Joe Cool does. Thus from a certain point of view Lex Luthor is Joe Cool's personal HERO. Never gives up, never surrenders even against the most powerful being on earth. Joe Cool, Private Eye, Metahuman investigator lives again to face opponents that could squish him like a bug. Undaunted by his relentless pursuit of Justice with a .45, a pack of cigarettes, and a few real super friends, he wins the day again, and another master villain goes to jail. (or in the case of a certain cult leader a small island deserted in the pacific)

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign Yes but for the most part, the weapons are. A gun in the hands of Nick Fury is still bound by the physics of the gun.

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign Actually the general feeling I get from most of the posters on these boards is that a character such as Nick Fury, the Punisher, Hawlkeye, and the Green Arrow have no place in Champions. I think thats a dis service to the game and genre in general. That is why I defend vs. Angry Godman with such vigor. It limits the imagination to such narrow builds for players. To each his own I guess.

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns Yes your right outside of the U.S. other countries don't have this restriction. I tend to forget the international nature of forums in general.

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign This is a great question unrelated to the topic. I would suggest asking the same question by starting a new thread. There I would be happy to discuss it with you or anyone else.

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign Look I mean no disrespect to anyone here. I know that by returning in public to these boards after years of absence non of you will have any idea where I'm coming from. The question was "How do you deal with superhero's and guns in your campaigns" I've stated my opinion on the matter. My system works great for my group of players. I don't have problematic issues that arise from Angry Godman syndrome. I have tried to point out the problems of Angry Godman syndrome. There is a place for strong normals in any campaign world and (believe it or not) the HERO's are very much needed.

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign Oh you know the usual if I can't hit Angry Godman. Aim for the Manhole cover, car, fire hydrant next to him etc. Something that will aid in shrapnel like the gas main that killed superman. Since a LAW rocket launcher is an explosion aiming for his area should get him good enough. I think some people here are missing the arms race evolution.

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign Because courage can't be purchased? You either have it within yourself or you don't. Another way to look at it is why are there so many people willing to be abused by domestic violence? workplace harassment? refusing to report crimes against their person? You ask a very good question. Why do we need HERO's at all. It's not about the powers it's about your convictions for doing the right thing at the right time. Furthermore what might not be right, might be legal. Justice comes from conviction of the heart, not always the law.

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign Your correct I don't aim for Angry Godman I aim for his hex. Law Rocket Launcher EX Haymaker maneuver FTW! Angry Godman only creates an arms race... bad GMing skills FTL It is the purpose of business to sell what people need, want or desire. If people need want or desire a better BANG! to protect their buck you be rest assured that someone will build one to take that buck.

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign Allow me to state this a better way. The real world natural result of bullet proof villains is a better bullet for a better price. By making your villains bullet proof (high resistant def) your end result is an arms race for your HERO's. It's better to just only allow for lower resistant def like 9-14 and be done with it otherwise every one of your HERO's becomes based on Drains Transforms, Suppress, and Find Weakness powers. Thats what 28 years of playing champions has taught me. Champions can be so much more without invincible man ruining your game.

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign This is why I wanted to know the specifics of your allowed defenses. Even with a standard resistance of 10-15 it is still possible for a normal with a normal gun to damage that particular character. GM's tend to forget you can double the damage of any weapon. Taking your example of 2 d6 you can increase the damage just from using a haymaker 3 d6+1, Thats 10 body 20 Stun average. Now lets add CSL's to make the gun 4 d6 (12 body 24 stun) simple enough. Then there are ways to reduce resistant armor by half .... How much of an arms race do you want your campaigns to be? Bullet proof supers and bullet proof villans are weak games as the end result is Og Bang Stick. I've found it much better to allow guns to be dangerous to both HERO and Villain to force both players and Villains to work in the background.

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign Whoa, what point value do you start with. What are your limitations on normal and resistant defenses? Not all supers have to be superman you know, it tends to get boring for the players after a while.

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns Well characteristics like STR is a whole different animal, Especially since there are so many ways of increasing damage from STR. I tend to want to know why your adding stats as part of your powers outside of the 125 point Characteristic maximum ratio. I've only once allowed a character to use his primary powers as stats. It made total sense for that character "Patriot Man". STR can always be increased via Growth or Density increase as part of your primary powers. At least thats how I govern my games. Look the whole point is you can have a normal with skills. Not all normals are useless cannon fodder as some here seem to suggest. Furthermore a super without super powers is basically a normal. Yeah Joe Cool is immune to poisons and disease, big whoopee, like that has come into play if at all. Joe Uses a gun and his brains to fight crime. This is something Normals can do. The whole point being that Supers outside of their powers are just as normal as you and me. The major difference is what is inside the heart of the person is what matters most. It's that simple choice for Justice, to right wrongs done, that makes a man or woman a HERO. No he is a HERO who must contend with people who have real dangerous powers. Sometimes the bad guys have good idea's, just implemented without a basis for morality.

Re: Telekinetic Tickling Sounds kinky

WOW interesting what you just stated IS the basis of my current game. At least from the bad guys point of view. I treated the situation as Freedom vs. Tyranny. The players quickly learned the value of Freedom over the personal destruction of Dominance. "Freedom is the RIGHT of all sentient beings." -Optimus Prime A good Film to have your players watch is called. The Lives of Others http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lives_of_Others

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns Yes and there is no reason, skills, can't be a source of primary power. For example one of my favorite PC's for a game I run is a guy named Joe Cool. Joe is a skill's based super character set for a Champions Universe. His 100 points (at least 80 of them) are skills. Other than his 20 points in life support he is basically a normal with a gun. Because the player involved is a good player he is more than a match for almost any super he runs into. Lex Luthor is Joe Cool's hero.

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign Yes the captain of the cheerleaders squad would never be corrupt enough to manipulate the team to fit her auspicious popularity needs. Power Corrupts, Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely you see this in business, sport teams, and MacDonalds day shift supervisors every day. If you think it's just limited to Government entities then you have an interesting view of humanity. Mankind will exploit its own at every opportunity unless individuals have something bigger than him self to believe in. Such as a Moral code, a sense of responsible ethics, a belief in a higher power, or Jesus Christ as his own personal Lord and Savior. To expect better of humanity is to be naive in my opinion. This is why the world needs HERO's and will always need HERO's from the ancient days of Youxia to modern day Supers, HERO's matter.

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns @ Alibear My world is populated by people who don't have super powers. There are people who are the exception called Supers. Take any group of Supers away from their powers and whats left ,,,, normals. Just because your normal does not mean you must now punish them with incompetence at 25+25. Then again if you want your world filled with incompetent people thats your business. I believe in the competence of normals until it involves politics. (lets not discuss politics here please) Normals in my games are generally 50+50. Incompetent DNPC's are usually worth 25+25. Useful DNPC's are 75+75. All supers in my game built are based on the following to start. 200+150 Characteristics 125 Max Skills, Perks or 3 point Talents 50 max Primary Powers or Special Equipment 100 Max Secondary Powers Martial Arts or Talents 75 Max Disadvantages allowed 150 I think this is a good method and balance of Supers compared to Normals in any game. I see no reason to not allow at least 50 skill points to a normal if I require 50 for a super.

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns Who says the authorities did not try? Some heads are easier to shoot than others. Especially since the chief of police was a card carrying cult member. The players figured out real quick some cult leaders are harder to get to than others. Also the players though it was total poetic justice to just leave him on a isolated island in the Pacific Ocean. The Villain tended to go mad [insane] if he did not have followers to command. As for the other questions no the Mentalist did not have Mind Scan, Just Mind control Ego attack and other various special effects with it. One of his "cult women" had the mind scan ability. Thus "Pharaoh" was eventually defeated by the brave actions of Joe Cool and the Gang. LOL now that I remember R. J. Reynolds was their only commercial sponsor they could find at the time. Its been an ongoing joke ever since. Joe Cool's only mutant ability was immunity to Poisons, & Disease. He used/ uses a gun for his primary offense power.

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns LOL I'm glad you asked that question. It took the players a few sessions to figure that one out too. Turned out that. a) Meta Morph in question was working for the federal counter - intelligence agency. Freedom of information act, required the players to work co-vert establish a pattern and then a trap. By alerting the federal counter - intelligence agency in question would have alerted the meta morph in question. Who said anything about handing the cult leader over to the cops. An island in the middle of the pacific ocean worked just fine. Yes this is a good quandary for good players. Nonetheless they figured it out. and captured the brute. Dispel vs. a given power works just fine. Ever wonder why children are vaccinated after birth? Well in my game world there is an important reason for this. You have obviously not read many of my posts. I believe in quite the opposite.

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns I fully understand where your coming from. In my games you the player are the HERO. That's not to say that gun's can't be used by normals. Heck one of my players plays a normal with a gun. His skills for investigations make the party work. He uses a gun, thats the extent of his special powers compared to the flame throwing energy projector, the mystic jack of all powers, the Robot, Patriot man, the De solid Martial Artist, and stretchy toy brick. He is by no means un able to deal with Supers just because he has a gun. On a side note Military Law prohibits its use against the populace unless its a national security measure. Thats not to say that the Military can't make a request for your help, heck even provide you with fire power. HEROism comes from a persons ability to overcome. Yes you can have special forces but that does not mean the government wants to invest their special forces into slaying the specter of the PC's demise. PC's are important, HERO's are important, thats why we read books, Comics, go to movies, watch TV shows. Players want to do cool things as in fiction and be entertained by a good story at the same time. Thats what my games are about. I will defend the normal with a gun. I will defend the super with a gun. Guns are an equalizer, and should always be. However Guns are not an excuse for poor GMing skills.

Re: Characteristics in an EC Allowing Characteristics other than those granted from powers such as Growth are very problematic. Your asking for trouble as a G.M.

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns That was called Motivation Platoon, had to avoid the 9th level of hell called motivation platoon. Psychological Limitation total cost 15 points Common Stong Fear of Motivation Platoon, I don't want to even think about it. Oh I doubt that. Extra ordinary circumstances require extra ordinary people. Cops can't deal with a teleporting brick, a Mentalist Cult leader, a shape shifting alien meta morph sleeping around with the Secretary of Defenses wife, etc. My games are not necessarily about firepower as much as defeating the bad guys, cult leader, alien invasion etc. Powers are almost always secondary, yet your ability to amaze the ordinary never goes out of style. A Gun can only do so much vs. the scaly tenticaled fleshoid creature kidnapping young Asian college girls, etc. Who better to stop a gang of mutant Jihad fanatics then supers? BUT hey if all you want to do is beat people or monsters up then my games are not for you. They require thought and skill over mindless ammo and brawn.

Re: how do you deal with guns and superheroes in your campaign For the most part my game group has dropped the single catch all PS: unless its for PS: Barber or PS: Waitress, etc. Those are essentially a one skill jobs. PS Mars Rover Driver had too many other factors and PS, Software Systems Annalist for the County had too many other skills such as various engineering skills or programing skills. For the most part we (my game group) has realized that in order for us to do our real life jobs the PS: can't be just one skill it encompasses too many other skills sets to utilize. BUT if one PS works for your group more power to you.

Re: Homo Sapiens and their guns Opal have you studied Martial Arts? I have for over 28 years in Shotokan Karate. What the Marines train in is very basic yet very effective maneuvers. They don't have to learn all of the odd fancy maneuvers or kata's like U-Blocks, double punches, or Flying Kicks just the stuff that works in the field and that is just as effective as any other maneuver that takes years to learn but not quite as fancy. That said I will agree just because you can kick like Chuck Norris does not make you Chuck Norris. What the MCMAC teaches are basic maneuvers that you can apply to any situation then they get very good at it. On the Basic Marine build, I thought I was being modest on SPD and stats. Most former Marines might look back and find this as very modest. I'm sure if you think about it you can reasonably accommodate every single one of those skills. Even with Army Basic Training and Advanced Training. Especially with all 6 listed KS skills. 10) KS: Military Customs and Courtesy 11- (did you ever learn to salute , or did you ever learn to recognize rank, how about going up the chain of command? Did you learn about procedure?) 11) KS: Military History 11- (Did you learn about the tradition of the Army, famous people and what tactics they were famous for?) 12) KS: Military organizations 11-(Who is Delta Force and what do they really do?, What about the 82nd Airborne? Screaming Eagles?, 7th Army? Who is in command of those units?) 13) KS: Operational Planning 11- (If you were an officer then this skill is a must in training, otherwise it's very easy to learn once you understand the basics, some of this is taught in basic training during combat simulation) 14) KS: Small Unit Instruction 11- (Were you a squad leader?, corporal, sergeant, etc? Then you should know this skill too.) 15) KS: Small Unit Tactics 11- (As above were you a squad leader, can you follow extremely vague orders? and make sense of them? "Go take the hill!") Funny I seem to remember these things from 18 years ago. I still pick up the government printed manuals from time to time just to keep up to date.