AirborneRob

I'm actually digging the CE example and input a bit up-thread. In that way, it acts as an aura as opposed to initiating the effect via PA. With the hit to EGO, only those strong of mind have a chance to counter it and have the will to act.

Re: My thief can't hit a firbolg?

That's funny because yesterday' date=' our group did do the tactical withdrawal. Large undead bear thingie that looked, [i']in character,[/i] to be too tough for us to handle. I was assisting the GM and knew just how tough it was, but it made sense to withdraw instead of slug it out. From a purely mechanical view, it should have been moderately tough. From a story/character perspective, it was a giant, undead grizzly thing that was using one of its own minions as a club. So we ran.

Yes, from a character perspective a Grizzley Bear is intimidating.... an undead Grizzley Bear is as close to self defecation as i could see happen

Re: My thief can't hit a firbolg?

only if preceded by "we're never going to make a..."

lol

Re: My thief can't hit a firbolg?

Sooner or later, a group will learn to put two words in the same sentence. Tactical...Withdraw

Re: Regarding Snipers and Spotters

Also as a point of reference for shots at extreme range, a Canadian sniper holds the record atm with a confirmed kill at 1 1/2 miles.

Re: My thief can't hit a firbolg?

Yes, weapons in Heroic games are usually built with both Real Weapon and STR Min. Both limitations assume that you can at most double the base weapon DC from all sources. So, a dagger (DC 2) can boost to DC 4 through a combination of STR, Skill levels, and combat maneuvers. See 6E2 99 for the Toolkitting sidebar for a full explanation.

 

In 6E, Deadly Blow was rewritten as skill levels, which effectively reduced the possible DCs dramatically. In 5Er, Deadly Blow used to be bought as dice of KA that were added to Base Damage (See 5th ed FH 105), and as such would add +1d6 per level (+3 DC). Since that was Base Damage, it would add directly, and allow doubling from there. So, for example, a Rogue with a dagger (DC 2) and 1 level of Deadly Blow (+DC 3) would have a Base Damage of DC 5, which could be doubled to DC 10 (3d6 +1) if he or she had enough STR, combat maneuvers or skill levels. Deadly Blow was written up as having 3 levels, so the highest form would result in our Rogue's dagger becoming DC 2+DC 9, which could double up to DC 22 (7d6+1), in the (hopefully) rare case of finding enough STR, Skill levels and combat maneuvers to add in.

 

JoeG

Just to make sure i have it right, between Combat Maneuvers, STR, Skill Levels and Base damage cannot be more than doubled. So a 1/2d6 with all regular factors included can only be a 1d6+1. Now Deadly Blow allows the character to add additional DC's on top of all that if i read your post right. For example if the 1/2d6 has been doubled using skill levels, STR and whatnot to 1d6+1, you can then add 1 level of Deadly Blow to get a final result of 2d6+1. Do i have that right?

Re: My thief can't hit a firbolg?

Thief STR 10 w/ Dagger = 1d6+1K. I'll assume OCV 5

 

Firbolg: 15 PD (6 rPD), DCV 5 (+2 OCV to others due to size to hit)

 

Thief tactics (no talents): Stealth into position (vs. PER 12-) and

 

Option 1: "The Drop"

Here the Firbolg isn't expecting an attack and is "out of combat".

This means... 1/2 DCV, 1/2 Hit Location Penalties, x2 STUN.

So... OCV 5 vs. DCV 5/2 = DCV 3; Thief is +2 OCV due to size of target so... OCV 7 vs. DCV 3 = 15- to hit. Worth is to go for the Head or Vitals (now only -4 OCV = 11- to hit), but equally worth it is to go for Stomach (now only -3 OCV since rounds in your favor = 12- to hit for a little more surety). Since STUNx is before armor, you will be doing x10 STUN to the head and x8 STUN to the stomach. Averaging 4.5 BODY (which won't pen rPD) you will still do 45 STUN or 36 STUN respectively, which is almost enough to Stun the Firbolg (45 - 15 PD = 30 and with a 30 CON you'd need to do 1 more point of STUN to Stun him).

 

Option 2: "The Assist"

Coordinate with a Fighter's attack from Surprise (via Stealth).

This means... 1/2 DCV and your STUN damage that gets through armor will add to the Fighter's for purposes of Stunning. That means:

Stunned = 1/2 DCV, 1/2 Hit Locations (see above)

 

All in all that is still going to be a tough fight.

 

Now, as for talents Sneak Attack is an obvious choice at 16 points for +3 DC (taking you to 2d6+1K). Flexible GMs can allow the purchase of single DCs. My pref is to not allow more than +2 DC (for 10 points) just to keep the damage in my games in line. If you had that, "The Drop" would end up doing another 35 STUN (head) or 28 STUN (stomach), in which case you would definitely Stun the Firbolg and in the case of the head hit KO. Plus, you would actually do BODY, but not enough to kill (4 in the case of the Head).

 

Why is that a good deal on damage? Well, it really only is in a heroic game and then if you have restrictions on skill levels/OCV. To get +3 DC from skill levels (which is how the talent is built/based), you'd need 6 skill levels. These can't be 2 pt levels either, they have to be 3 or more. In this case it applies to all attacks made from surprise - flexible GMs might allow you to restrict it to "light weapons" or "thief weapons" or some such to make it cheaper. Regardless, few GMs are going to allow a character to buy 6 skill levels in a 175pt game... that would allow your OCV to be 14 if you bought your base up to 8 and that doesn't include maneuvers.

 

I am pretty tight on how many skill levels I allow, but I always allow additional restricted/limited levels. PSLs vs targeting/range, CSLs for damage only (like Deadly Blow) as they don't upset (terribly) the balance of the game as much as raw OCV modification.

 

Fighters are built to do lots of damage all the time. Rogues, when built for combat, are more focused and can only do damage in limited circumstances.

 

Other options: draw his attention. Rogues usually have high DCV. A successful PRE attack is often enough to get him to attack you, and then you can either abort to a Dodge or Dive for Cover. If he's busy missing you, he can't hit the fighter.

 

Your idea to knock him down is good too - Trip as a maneuver can be very effective in that case. You use your attack to get him down (since you can't hurt him directly) and then your fighters can more easily do a called shot (since he will be 3 DCV and they will get +2 OCV due to size).

 

Good luck.

You mentioned the 6 CSL's from one of my posts and i just wanted to point out that i recommended keeping the CSL's as only to add damage. Yea, a blanket +6 CSL's in a Heroic game of 175 pts was not where i was going with that. I agree that it would be bad to have that high a potential OCV

Re: My thief can't hit a firbolg?

Normally, you can only double the damage with STR and skill levels in Heroic games that use the STR Min and/or Real Weapon rules (see 6e2 199 for STR Min and 6e2 200 for Real Weapon). So, a 1d6-1 (DC 2) dagger would normally max out at 1 1/2 d6 (DC 4).

 

 

 

I'd probably let a character who bought the full-cost Deadly Blow (Assassin's Touch or Sneak Attack) to add on top of the maximum with a dagger, as I think that it fits the spirit of what the Talent's trying to duplicate. Our dagger strike with Assassin's Touch or Sneak Attack would then max out at 2d6+1 (DC 7). To get the AP, use a Stiletto, which would max out at 2d6-1 (DC 7) (or you could build it as a naked Advantage, though that would be more work).

 

JoeG

As i understand how STR reacts with KA damage, yea, if you have a 10 STR in effect you can only add 2 DC's to the damage and only if it doesnt more than double the base KA damage. I thought skill levels were there to add damage above what the KA w/STR gives you. I have not had the opportunity as yet to play in a Heroic setting but i thought that your weapons were supposed to be real ones with the STR min.

Re: My thief can't hit a firbolg?

The Deadly Blow talent was created for exactly this purpose.

You're right, completely forgot about that ability. Sneak Attack is one of the options under Deadly Blow but seems a little pricey though. Wouldn't the 6 CSL's do the same thing and save on a few points? I think it costs 12 points for 6 CSL's with the sneak attack as i built it. I figured sneak attack would be considered a single attack type and would save him 4 points in the process.

Re: My thief can't hit a firbolg?

I think the Limited Power Limitation would be applicable. Maybe Limited Power: Power only works when attacking from behind -1.

Re: My thief can't hit a firbolg?

I like this idea. For some reason' date=' **slapping forehead***, I didn't think to create a sneak attack ability for him. I guess I was thinking of using stealth rolls for the ability to sneak behind and sneak up upon.[/quote']

 

Lol, im no expert with HERO but i like to try and help folks when i can Maneuvers you create like a Sneak Attack fits the concept of the character and should allow more effectivness than if you were to stand next to the warrior and trade blows with the Firbold. Remember that CSL's allow for a variety of options for different classes/concepts

Re: My thief can't hit a firbolg?

I guess' date=' to clarify this a bit, my thief can [i']hit[/i] the firbolg, but he isn't going to do any damage. Is this right? If so, what have you guys done to counter this problem?

If i were to build a Thief, i may have went with a handful of special attack options. I think between his Dagger and STR, his HKA should be sitting at around 1d6+1. Now if you give your Thief an attack like backstab or call it Sneak Attack and then add some CSL's to increase the damage done and limit it to Only when attacking from behind. Keep in mind that there are people on the boards with more know how regarding building something than I. If it were me though, i would build it as Sneak Attack, Armor Piercing (find the sweet spot), +6 CSL's (only to apply damage), only when attacking from behind. That gives you an HKA now of 2d6+1 if my math is right and the 15 PD drops to a 7 if the GM is kind If i did this right, you will have much better potential damage.

Re: Terracide: A Space Opera Noir Setting

It wasn't me, honest! Rumor has it the relativistic bombs came from somewhere in the vicinity of the Vega system.

 

 

I just couldn't resist the idea of humanity being wiped out by Vegans....

Remember....what happens in Vega, stays in Vega Lol, in all seriousness Xavier, as a sci-fi lover, your initial post for Terracide sounds awesome man and i look forward to hearing/reading more about it.

Re: A level of confusion

Blue Suede Shoes: 5-point CSLs with all Elvis paraphernalia; OIF (-1/2) [real cost: 3 points each]

Blue Suede Shoes: 5-point CSLs with all Elvis paraphernalia; OIF (-1/2), Limited Power ( Being stepped on causes the CSL's to lose all effectiveness) -2 [real cost: 1 point each]

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

I agree swinging a cat is harder.......what?

lol, i dub thee a nut

Re: A level of confusion

Right. I would allow it with 8-point CSLs because they can apply to all HTH combat' date=' including unarmed combat. You can use them when wielding a knife. You can use them when unarmed. You can use them when you pick up an Elvis statue. I'd allow that to be limited to just the cases where you are wielding a knife or defending against one, which is less of a limitation than [i']only[/i] the case where you are wielding a knife (with that last being the equivalent of a 3-point level).

Actually, you can only use an Elvis statue if you are wearing Blue Suede Shoes

Re: A level of confusion

Well, the actual rule on point is on 6e1 page 69.

 

"Unless the GM permits otherwise, a character can only allocate a CSL on a Phase when he uses an attack/power that CSL applies to."

 

So if you buy a 3 point CSL with the small group "all knives", that skill level can be assigned in any phase that you are using a knife. If what you want is a

CSL that you can use for OCV or Damage with any knife, and for DCV anytime you are using a knife or being attacked by one, what you want is a limited 8 point CSL with all HTH combat. A -1 for all of the limitations brings it to 4 points, or slightly more expensive than the more limited "Only when using a knife" level. Sounds about right.

 

If you don't think that it makes sense for people to trained in such a way as to allow them to be harder to hit when using one type of attack but no harder to hit if they aren't using it, only let people use 8 or 10 points levels for DCV.

Ok, so the best way to do what i was talking about would be best done with an all HTH CSL then? I think Manic Typist also stated as much just seemed to me that a DCV bonus could be applied w/o the knife in hand. I just have a different take on that singular application for knives but i dont have a problem if the spirit of it requires an 8 point CSL to accomplish it.

Re: Flying like the Greatest American Hero?

LOL....one of the best shows i have seen Ohh, if only the buildings, trees, billboards, sidewalks, streets could talk

Re: A level of confusion

That pretty much goes back to my first post. To me it seemed reasonable to think that a DCV bonus from a CSL can be applied without a knife in hand. Body positioning, anticipating your opponents moves and reacting accordingly.

Re: Quantum Fuzzy: Mirror Universe version of the Tribble...to be or not to be

IIRC Only humans were opposite in the Mirror Universe.

I think humanoids were really the only thing they did show in the MU. Like i said, this will be a little twist for an interesting adventure or two and since no episode of the shows really touched on the MU tribbles im taking some creative license

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

2-3' date=' according to the article.[/quote']

 

Even better

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

The range seems to be 2-6 pounds' date=' with weights ranging closer to 2 than 6, from what I've read.[/quote']

 

Yea, from what i understand, i think the traditional longsword weighs in at 4-5 pounds.

Re: A level of confusion

Well, if they character had +4 3 pt levels with swords.... would you allow them to have those levels blocking people with swords using their bare hands? Even if you impose a penalty for blocking an armed opponent while you are unarmed... I'm dubious.

 

I have a tendency to view fighting unarmed, even against a weapon you are very familiar with, as sufficient different enough so as to merit different CSLs.

No i wouldn't, a sword has a significant reach where as a knife is very close and personal. You can grab the attackers hand or arm easier in a knife fight than a sword fight with just hands. Just my opinion, we had hand to hand training involving knives in the service and another weapon is not required. I will admit that i would like to be on even terms in that situation Yea, i guess that might be a better way to go. I was just looking at the CSL with knives as Technical and Tactical proficiency, you know how to fight better with it and also reflecting you know how to react to an attacker with a knife better than someone without the CSL.

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

Ah but Axes are more suited to certain types of people and their level of Injury scales Higher then a sword does. Not to mention, not all Axe designs Were Unwieldy, several require (Especially those of Indonesian and African Origin) exceeding amounts of flexibility and dexterity. The single biggest Advantage a Sword had over an Axe, is that Swords were Lighter, and could be used for longer periods, by smaller people. However that being said there is a reason the Great Axe was one of the most feared weapons on the battle field today, and an even better example for the case of the Axe.....We still use Axes today, and I am a huge fan of the Tactical Tomahawk (Especially the Sayoc Winkler 2) since I always found it easier to use (granted, I was trained in Knife and Tomahawk as a kid), then that stuid Entrenching Tool (Gimme a real shovel anyday, heh).

 

No Swords around today, especially for CQB. Axes, Knives, and Shovels though. No Swords.

 

~Rex

Oh, dont get me wrong regarding axes, lol. Very dangerous weapon in the right hands. My point is that if you want to kill an opponent with greater effeciency, the precision of the sword allows for more able strikes to vital areas of the body. As i view an axe, it kills an opponent like any other weapon but generally does so through more severe trauma to the body through maiming and mutilation than a precise thrust a sword can achieve.

Re: Which is easier to swing, an axe or a sword?

Hmm....Trained in both so I have to say, the question isn't really detailed enough to give a good answer. The Axe, is a simpler weapon to pick up and use, but a more difficult weapon to manage in melee, and hence requires more skill. The Sword is easier to manipulate in Melee, but requires a much longer period of time to Master. There is a similar arguement for Bows vs Crossbows (Most of us know that old saying.....), but in the end they BOTH require a great amount of skill that tends to be developed at different stages in learning how to use the weapon.

 

In other words, as anyone else will tell you that's had some training in both. They're about the same. While not the best example, Deadliest Warrior has several Axe vs Sword show downs where you can actually SEE the difference and type of skill. Not to mention the differences in the type of Men and build of physicality that allow you to exploit the best aspects of each weapon. A good way to think of it in terms of Modern weaponry, is to think of a Sword as a precision Rifle, and an Axe, as a Shotgun.

 

~Rex....In otherwords, Roughly equal, just differnt forms of implementation and advantages in certain situations.

To use your example Rex, because the sword is a precision weapon vs an axe and generally more maneuverable in combat thus more control, swords would be the better weapon overall imo. Basically choosing a scalpel over the hammer.