Gold Rush Games

Don't assume that I'm not, gang. I agree (yet again) that many of the comments and suggestions were good one, and they are appreciated. I commented on but one of the things in his post. The rest of it isn't being ignored, I assure you. Perhaps I should have stated that explicitly in my reply.

Whoops. My bad. I never once suggested that I didn't believe the friend loaned his book out. That was never brought into question. Assumptions on one person's part are not facts that I weigh heavily in this gathering of feedback. Now, if the friend had actually told someone that they gave up their copy for specific reasons and then those reasons were stated, that would be second-hand but I would consider those comments a lot more worthwhile than assumptions. So, as the publisher and original co-developer of SACoH I should have no interest in this discussion? Okay. In terms of the rest of the inaccurate statements and mischaracterizations of my comments I'm choosing not to reply any more. This argument is really becoming tiresome. It appears that some people simply want to assume the worst and argue on end about something that amounts to a misunderstanding about a relatively trivial issue. If anyone else wants to continue this ridiculous argument, please do so in private mail. I can be reached at mark@goldrushgames.com . I would ask that folks intersted in helping us shape the future of SACoH via suggestions and comments to Rob concerning SACoH2E continue to do so. We sincerely do value our fans' input.

Great! I look forward to reading what he has to say. I can see where it might appear that way. Perhaps "impatient" is a better descriptor. In either case, I'll extend my apologies. I'm not sure why you think that I think that you think it's "crappy." That's not what I said at all. To reiterate, if you dislike anything about SACoH then please feel free to tell me all about it. If it's something you think your friend thinks, then that info is less important to me. That's all. There's no reason for you to get upset just because I value your direct opinions more than what you think your friend might feel. Personally I think there's been some miscommunication and that the mole hill is growing quickly. Let's just put this part of the thread to rest and focus on how we can improve, SACoH. Deal? You're free to vote with your dollars. If you want to miss out on a fantastic product because you don't see eye to eye with me, that's your right. You are putting words into my mouth and have apparently misread my comments. Perhaps you should re-read my explanation. And then if you still feel the need to disagree, that's fine. Perhaps we can take it to private mail so that this thread can remain on topic. Well, for the record, I have actually agreed with most of what you said. I have not responded to any constructive criticism in this forum with anything less than stated appreciation. That's a shame.

Hey, feel free to start another thread about what you think bites about SACoH. That doesn't bother me. It's not about whether or not I want valid criticism. It's about staying on topic and giving your opinion instead of what you think someone else's opinion is. That's all. I thought I stated my position pretty clearly. Apparently not. My intent is not to get anyone's back up. I'm sincerely interested in knowing what fans want to see in SACoH2E. I have always listened to the fans. I am a fan myself (of HERO System). I doubt if anyone who has known me for any length of time would think otherwise. I have also expressed appreciation for the comments that have been made. I'll leave that at that.

Yes, and I thank you again for your comments. I don't claim that your comments were worded poorly or rudely. I'm just not interested in supposition, per se. It feels like unnecessary bashing and criticism and it's a bit distracting to me. Too personally? Nah. I am looking for constructive criticism and honest input from the fans. But I prefer direct input. Telling me why you think your friend dislikes or has no use for a book, when you don't even know that to be the case, smacks of negativism, IMO. I don't take it personally. It just makes me think that perhaps you are more inclined to support a negative perception than you are in expressing constructive suggestions for SACoH2E. I don't care what someone "thinks their friend thinks." I want to know what you think. That's all I'm saying. And I appreciate it. Criticism I can take. Making stuff up to pad a message and try to impress upon me how crappy our book is does nothing to endear me to one's comments. Like I said, I care what you have to say. I don't really care what you think your friend thinks. If your friend would like to post his views, I'll gladly read them. Otherwise it's not even anecdotal; it's supposition. ::shrug:: Yeah, and I have bad breath. Whew! Glad that's out of the way. Relax. I'm not your enemy. I want your opinion. That's why I asked.

And what are your thoughts about what you'd like to see in SACoH2E? Yes, I agree. However, how do we downplay the importance of the NPC heroes in a way that supports our approach that the PCs are the most important heroes in the city? The more background and detail and so forth that we provide for the NPC heroes, the less credibility I would think we'd maintain when we claim "but they're not as important as your characters." See what I mean? I do understand your point. The hard part is striking the balance.

Some people are very quick to point out negatives, even reaching to the point of stating assumed negatives. I truly appreciate each person taking the time to post comments on this thread. But developers have feelings, too, you know. What would help us more, I think, instead of telling us what you think your friend dislikes about the old book is to tell us what you would see as a positive in the 2nd Ed. book.

Another reason we opted not to include SAS stats was a financial one. A SAS license would have cost more money, as would hiring someone to do the write-ups/conversions. Just FYI.

Don't take the comment personally. I don't believe that's what Rob was trying to convey. Really? Now that's something I can honestly say I've not heard before. Can you be a little more specific or better yet, provide some examples?

Define "a rich background of superherodom."

Several hundred downloads of the Dragon's Gate PDF preview so far! We're off to a good start, but I know there are a lot more HERO System fans out there than that! Come on, gang! Tell your gaming group! Tell your family! Tell your cat! All HERO fans must download the PDF preview!

What would he do? Jump for joy! My character in our previous Champions game, Kami (aka Inazuna for those of you who own Enemies of San Angelo met and practically fell in love with his "evil self" from a mirror universe, who happened to be female. It was weird, but fun. Of course, the adventure was being run by none other than (artist) Greg Smith, who's not known for showing us illos of unattractive female villainessessesses... Right, Greg?

I appreciate your comments. This won't work for SA:CoH, however, and I'll tell you why. One of the design principles we had going in to SA:CoH was that the PCs are the premier supers in the setting. No one -- not even the Justice Foundation -- are assumed to overshadow or outshine the PCs. Ever. But the players can do this regardless of whether their PCs are "top dogs" or not. I don't see the need to mandate PCs as second string heroes in the setting.

I like the way you're thinking, Storn. I like it a lot...

Another great suggestion. When we designed SA:CoH we rather intentionally went for the Champions archetypes in the team. Would you prefer to see "comic book archetypes" in SA:CoH2E? One of the drawbacks to doing this is that the NPC heroes in the book could overshadow the PCs, which we prefer to avoid... How do the rest of you feel about this?

San Angelo has homages to several different cities. The Dragon's Gate is an homage to San Francisco's Chinatown, true, but there are other "gates" in the U.S. Don't get too hung up on one detail like that. Think broader... An excellent suggestion. Robert, take note!

Just FYI, there is also a PDF preview of San Angelo: City of Heroes that is still available on our web site. You can download it here.

And did a wonderful job, btw. Wrong city, but I get your point.

And you've made a friend. Seriously, though, it is my sincere hope that you are as pleased as punch with The Dragon's Gate.

True enough. I was addressing more the "real world cop" than the "cinematic cop" in my post. Cinematic cops do a lot of things differently than cops are (legally) allowed to in the real world.

FWIW, I worked in law enforcement for 15 years, and have undergone and been held to "lethal force" policies from several agencies, including the DOD/USAF and a local sheriff's department. When it comes to the use of force, an officer's ultimate decision to use it stems from one of two primary sources: self preservation or the preservation of another's life. That decision will be guided by departmental policy (which is clearly spelled out in wirintg, I assure you) and state law or, in the case of military police, Department of Defense and branch (e.g., USAF) regulations. Training also comes into play. An officer is never trained to "wound." Officers are trained to "shoot to stop," meaning "stop the threat." If that means it takes one shot and the perpetrator ceases being a threat because they drop their weapon and surrender, great. If it means shooting the perpetrator ten times in the chest and once in the head because they just won't stop coming toward you with a deadly weapon, then so be it. Lethal force is always a last resort. One of the many things an investigating agency (Internal Affiar, the FBI, the courts, whomever) will look at when reviewing a shooting incident is "Was there another course of action that the officer could have reasonably taken?" Allowing oneself to be shot by a bad guy is not reasonable, btw. When shooting at a suspect, officers are generally trained to shoot "center mass," meaning the center of the torso. The reason is because this is generally the largest target. Shooting a leg to wound someone is ludicrous in the real world. It's cinematic and cool and all, but if my life or the life of someone else depended on me hitting a suspect in the leg, in a high stress situation, then things would probably not turn out well. I know that I could put 14 of 15 rounds into their chest, however. (What about number 15? I'd save that one for the head shot; if 14 rounds can't put someone down, it's time to take out the brain. Period.) Anyway, I digress. Whether or not a trained peace officer shoots someone has very little to do with the officer's personal beliefs beyond "I believe if this guy tries to kill me, I'm going to kill him." Trust me. As a rule, officer candidates (and veterans) who are psychologically predisposed to not shoot when they need to shoot are weeded out. And a good thing, too. If my butt is on the line and I find out that my partner "Just couldn't do it," and I get hurt as a result... there's going to be some serious heat coming down. So, in summary, cops don't have a Code Against Killing. There's no way that a cop can be completely effective if they aren't ready, willing and able to take a life should the job call for it.

I wanted to post a special "Thank you!" to the Hero Games/DOJ crew for posting the Dragon's Gate banner on the Hero Games site. Thanks, guys! As soon as we get their banner, we'll be posting it up on our site. Be a hero!

The Dragon's Gate Preview PDF October 24, 2003 (Elk Grove, CA) Gold Rush Games has released a 13-page PDF preview of The Dragon's Gate: San Angelo's Chinatown. The Dragon's Gate details the Chinatown neighborhood of the fictional city of San Angelo, the City of Heroes (which is detailed in the critically acclaimed and Origins Award-nominated book of the same name), including the people and places therein, from traditional apothecaries to the nefarious tongs that control the Chinatown underworld, as well as a detailed time-line of the neighborhood, adding detail to the already rich history of San Angelo, and a detailed map showing more than 100 locations described in the book. The Dragon's Gate will also appeal to thousands of superhero RPG fans, as the book includes character write-ups for HERO System, M&M Superlink and Action! System. In all, there are 128 pages packed with more detail than you can shake a joss stick at! To download the Dragon's Gate PDF preview, visit the Gold Rush Games web site at http://www.goldrushgames.com . Watch for The Dragon's Gate: San Angelo's Chinatown this December! The Dragon's Gate: San Angelo's Chinatown and San Angelo: City of Heroes are trademarks of Gold Rush Games. The Dragon's Gate: San Angelo's Chinatown copyright © 2003 Gold Rush Games. Hero System and Champions are trademarks of DOJ, Inc., d/b/a Hero Games. Used under license. Mutants & Masterminds, M&M Superlink, the M&M Superlink logo, and Green Ronin are trademarks of Green Ronin Publishing and are used with permission. Action! System is a trademark of Gold Rush Games.

I'm not going to touch that one. In that case...They are good questions all. Oh, of that I've no doubt. Wasn't trying to suggest otherwise. I know that HERO fans can be very passionate, indeed. And for that I am grateful. All I ask is to give us a chance to get things going. It's been a long road. The SACoH2E project languished for more than a year before it was determined that we needed to assign someone else to run with it. Unfortunately, during that time I was also tied up with other things so SACoH2E didn't get my full attention, either. Now that Rob is heading up the project, however, I expect things to start rolling along. In fact, he's already going through and making notes about things that need fixing just in the first edition, let alone things we want to change (update, delete or add) for the 2nd Ed. That's where Rob can use your feedback. Obviously the assenbled fans here don't represent the entirety of our audience and market, but you're a substantial portion of it (or at least substantially vocal ). So do tell Rob waht you'd like to see in SACoH2E. And please consider picking it up when it's released. I assure you it will not be "SACoH updated with 5th Ed. character write-ups." It will be much more. Updating the setting from 19997 to 2004 is our goal, and a LOT can happen in seven years, to be sure! As any long time Hero fans can tell you, I do not ignore our fans. If I had no interest in your opinions, neither I or Rob would ask folks for their input here and on the SACoH mailing list. Have you checked out the color Chinatown map on our web site? If not, go download it now! I'd be interested to know what you think.

Yes, I am aware of the need for marketing. My point is that we are not there yet. When we start rolling our the marketing for SACoH2E we'll be extolling its virtues and all the rest. But I still think it odd for someone who claims to "really like" all of the existing SACoH products to then start asking a bunch of questions that (I thought) would be unnecessary for someone familiar with the line. ::shrug:: Re-read the first paragraph of his post, please, and then explain to me how I am supposed to view his questions. Give it time. This is not the "big push" for promoting SACoH2E. Far from it. That will come later. I promise. In the meantime, I encourage everyone to check out The Dragon's Gate: San Angelo's Chinatown. If you liked the other three SACoH books released to date, I think you'll really dig The Dragon's Gate, too!