TrickstaPriest

Sounds like he managed to tear this country in two, then.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/stream-sanctions-iran-trump-administration

More or less my nightmare scenario. All my talk about them establishing pretense. I've been watching the fraud scenarios, trying to get as much 'from the source' or 'legal submissions' from anything that still hangs around. So far the only thing I've seen is the poll worker who recanted and recanted again. And the story about the glitching software in Michigan. Everything else is describing a story that's been thrown out of court, or so absurd that it's almost physically impossible to actually do.

It's almost like everything we've been saying about him is true. 😕

I have come in here ranting about the things friends of mine have said before, so I can understand Starlord's position here. Of course, almost all my ranting is in the pol thread. --- I've literally blocked a friends' friends on FB because they implied they were a coronavirus truther. I literally have no time or care for that anymore. I have sympathy for people struggling with the lockdowns and support, because they have been the worst implementation I've seen. They've still saved lives, but...

Relevant https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-suddenly-says-its-time-to-leave-hunter-biden-alone

I don't know how much outside contact you get, so I don't have much in the way of assessment recommendations you should make.

More consequences of what Trump has done: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hammer-scorecard-vote-counts/ There will be millions of Americans, if not tens of millions, who will still believe this is real until the day they die.

😕

I'm both encouraged and depressed by that. And I absolutely appreciate the thought.

I mean, this is problem #3. If we go way back on this board, way back, I think I compare Trump to Boris Yeltsman more than once. He was Putin's relatively incompetent precursor. I think it is at least somewhat likely (in some areas) for the same reason as we are seeing some of the most ridiculous court cases I've ever seen. The Republican party is drowning, young people are less religious and more inclined to vote democrat than ever (whatever your suggestion is for this), so the entire party is throwing the kitchen sink to seize as much power as possible. That's literally why they've been behaving this way for over ten years now. They are nakedly afraid of losing the Presidency forever, and who cares about completely destroying the country otherwise? As long as they figure they can literally attempt a coup on every level without even the smallest consequence, they can and will continue to do this.

😕 Like, literally this is why I can't agree with any of this. An investigation is fine. But Trump, Barr, and a lot of his appointees literally don't know what they are talking about. They are trying to build an appearance of impropriety so they can tear down everything in their way.

100%. Death rates are just useful for tracking it's progress (or not) and whether it's ballooning. 😕

This is also true. What worries me is that this is a pretext to have multiple states with a generally Republican-run administration to just... ignore the voter results and have the electorates go for Trump. Despite not yet submitting any serious accounting of the widespread fraud, and apparently trying to pull investigations out of thin air. The court cases so far I've seen have been items like... a package of 50 ballots that was left unattended, and people weren't sure if they arrived late or had been counted or not. But that's not enough to overturn the state. The suggestion of more might allow the pretext to do so. And then what happens? 😕

I wish I could say I'm surprised, but. https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/09/politics/william-barr-voting-irregularities/index.html Pretty much why I've been a doomer since the beginning. 😕 This could literally tear the country in two completely.

Unfortunately my sympathy isn't worth much. And as I'm watching the third wave of this hit, I wish we could have done this right the first time... but what do I know.

I did honestly want to give the current administration (mostly Pence) credit for the vaccine, but apparently it's unrelated.

I knew it wasn't illegal in at least one of the states. So in the other, he directly asked for fraudulent voting behavior on national news. Credibility, thy name is Trump. Open an investigation? Sure. But I wouldn't give Trump the credibility to run it.

"Whoa, whoa, whoa, I just think we have to be very clear," Cavuto said, referring to McEnany's statements. "She's charging the other side is welcoming fraud and welcoming illegal voting. Unless she has more details to back that up, I can't in good countenance continue showing you this." Uhm. Yeah. Trump asking his voters to vote twice. I really hope that wasn't illegal in the two states he did it in.

Didn't hear about this. Any information on it? That... why?

This is a pretty good observation. Whether you believe it or not, this kind of de-facto suggests there can't be a lot of fraudulent active ballots. Even if there is a sophisticated 'operation'... that people are conjuring out of implication. There could still be fingers on a few weights, and we can totally look into that. But that's literally not what is being argued, which is why you pretty much can't trust the argue-er.

No kidding. But aside from the turnaround argument... all Trump does is push to change popular opinion. This is a huge problem. If you want tangible action on anything that isn't a naked power grab, this Presidency isn't the one to see it on. But we need action now, on a lot of things. I'm still not convinced the Electors won't flip their states anyway at the mere implication of what he's said. I want to be hopeful, but. (edit add) If anything, this administration has proven to me that 'good' won't win, and more specifically that the naked opportunity to take power is more valuable to these people than the shared stability of this country. I've never seen an event like this in my lifetime. A lot of people are hopeful, because they feel he speaks for them. But his actions speak a hell of a lot louder to me than words, and that middle class tax cut is going to expire soon... and much of the changes he made can be interpreted as 'changing' the government, sure, but given his pattern of firings and replacements, it resembles make the government work for -me- a hell of a lot more. 😕 I don't think I'll live long enough to see the US get fixed from this damage, even if the repairs begin tomorrow.

I mean, this observation is still valuable. The problem is, one, there's still the Electors willingly handing over the states despite the votes, entirely because of the fraud rumors. That naked power grab is possible with this very emotional justification. This is before you even consider the Supreme Court. The problem is, two, that because they've encouraged such a participatory anger, that Republican voters will still say they have been cheated, and crushed by liars, probably for the rest of their lives. A huge portion of the country now thinks this way. The problem is, three, the next election cycles will see Donald Trumpism type tactics just like this entirely to make this divide worse. And they'll be done by people who can actually, you know, strategically prepare in advance. That's why I'm such a doomer about this.

There is bad stuff our government has done and is doing. But I know people who've done ballot counting and other election services. Pulling election fraud across multiple states in the country? Without any major evidence of it ever coming up? If there are bad actors in the system, or even bad people from the campaign, it would be surprising to me that they 'all happen to be' democratic campaign people. It would surprise me if there are thousands of them, everywhere, without anyone somehow noticing any weird shit. Does that equalize things? No. That's why I think more eyes on the situation is not bad. But it makes the message a hell of a thing to swallow from Trump's campaign. They aren't interested in solving anything and won't do anything other than try and incite more violence. They sure as hell won't fix anything. Imagine what it would be like to have something like this coming from an actual competent campaign? The whole country would be in pieces in a single term. Trump has pretty much laid the groundwork for that.

My question is why didn't they have this voter fraud hotline or website set up... in advance? Why again, did Trump never attempt to open a commission, an investigation, anything to prepare for 'record voter fraud', in advance? Why didn't, when he first started talking about it weeks ago, actually organize something other than trying to encourage 'active participation' that will obviously be either unlawful or disruptive? https://www.cbsnews.com/video/pro-trump-protesters-rally-outside-arizona-ballot-counting-facility/ He did this to my area. Then Alex Jones showed up to fan flames. It's a wonder no one got shot.