Orion

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

The thing is' date=' since I'm a gay guy myself, I always look for LGB characters in anything I read or watch -- I can't help it. [/quote']

 

White male hetero, myself. While I understand why you look for LGB characters, I find that I prefer that the character's sexuality not be mentioned at all. Unless it is a key fact about the character, I think it just shouldn't matter. As a GM, I can decide what they are when it is needed for the plot. Romance and sexuality have very little importance in my campaign, so mention of it in a character writeup, regardless of the type chosen, feels intrusive to me. I find that race has even less importance than sexuality, and is even easier to ignore or change.

Re: Tell me about your campaign world.

For most genres I just use the default setting with minor tweaks, but with Champions there was no established world back in 1985, so I created my own.

Sentinels - Magic started leaking back into the world about 15 years ago. It's the cause of metahumans, with universal powers directing a small number to be created to advance their goals. It's only been 10 years since the first metahuman showed up. About 90% of metahumans are villains, and many are from old publications. All heroes are my creations, as there are only about 20 worldwide. Players are the first superteam. Psionics exist, were lifted straight out of Julian May's Metapsychic Rebellion series, but play almost no role in the campaign. Magic is at about the level of Buffy or Charmed, and Demon and dimensional invaders play a significant part. Technology is not as advanced as most comics, and Iron Man type suits are extremely rare - Turtle armor is about as good as most countries get to fight villains. Aliens are fighting AIs and cyborgs for control of wormholes near Earth and this may or may not become important later on. The AIs are secretly supplying advanced tech to Genocide. The tone is dark, somewhat dystopian, and closer to Shadowrun than Champions Universe. Death of mooks is expected, and major villains and heroes are not exempt. No Green Arrow or Batman types, as they get killed far too quickly. Dark Champions feel and tone, but with 400+ point characters.

Nazi World - Year is 1950. Nazis took over Europe using superscience and mystical artifacts, but were smart enough not to attack Russia directly. Japan rules much of Pacific and half of China, while Stalinist Russia indirectly controls the rest of China. US stayed neutral too long, and is just starting to figure out how to create metahumans. There is a small nation of intelligent apes in Africa, and analogs to Wundagore, Monster Island, and the Savage Land/Pellucidar Play concentrates on stopping Nazi/Russian/Japanese saboteurs on the homefront and secret missions striking back at the enemy. Mystery men allowed, but low powered superheroes preferred. Players are from US or British (includes colonies) refugees. Silver age in tone. This campaign linked to Sentinels through my (very different) version of Dr Destroyer, and mostly for one-off adventures at this time. If/when it turns into a full campaign, I'll likely buy supplements to flesh it out.

No name - still in development, and may get stuck in a corner of the Sentinels at some point. Dark Champions or Shadowrun in tone. No code names or costumes, and while the public knows some have special powers, most keep them hidden. No aliens, demons, mutants, robots, or supertech - psionics and magic are the source of all powers. Low powered, and most enemies are at the agent level. Characters encouraged to be morally ambiguous. Play revolves around furthering each characters goals, not being a hero. Characters usually work together, but may work against each other at times. Social conflict is emphasized over fists and weapons.

Warlord of Mars - based somewhat on the old ERB stories, but also incorporates old scifi about other planets, Buck Rogers, Pellucidar, Zenozoic Tales, and the Warlord comic. No space travel, but there is remnent technology from an older civilization, which may or may not have been alien. Humans and aliens exist together on planet, but seldom mix, and aliens usually more barbaric. Lots of weird monsters. Low-level psionics take the place of magic for both mages and priests. Ray guns, antigrav, and rocket packs, but also swords, breastplates, and loincloths. Most advanced tech cannot be replaced. Play revolves around fighting off the barbarian hordes (human and alien), rogue monsters, and recovering technology. As much Fantasy Hero as Champions.

Re: Once Were Minions

In all fairness, Celestial Fire-Sea Elves with Force powers are vanishingly rare. I was exaggerating a little there.

 

But if you ever decide to expand your knowledge of non-humans, hybrids and strange groups of protagonists in fiction then here are some suggestions.

Of course they are rare - if they were common, no one would want to play them. :-) Of the books you mention, I've heard of none of them. Wolfe was the only author I had heard about, but I haven't read any of his stuff. High fantasy is not usually my thing, and I stay far from it unless it is recommended highly by others.

Re: Once Were Minions

I can't say that the idea of limiting the players' options to one or two races appeals to me. Of course I'm used to weird and wonderful parties of PCs.

I'm just the opposite - allowing non-humans in the group is a very rare event for me. They exist, just not as player characters. Even then, elves and dwarves are the only possible choices - all others are just evil monsters. I'd happily do a monster campaign, but everyone would be a monster - none of the good races allowed.

I know that this kind of thing i.e. 'I want to play a Celestial Sea-Elf with Fire Elemental Ancestors that uses martial arts, thief skills, spells from the Priest list and Force Powers' really irritates some people. But as long as the concept works I don't care how strange the character is, in fact I designed that setting to give people an exotic array of choices.

As a GM, I'd never design a campaign where character mashups like that could even exist - it would never occur to me to allow it. I don't think I could GM a character like that, at least where the player and I could both be satisfied with the campaign. I think I'd have a very difficult time even playing in a group that does allow it. I have never read fiction that, and so can not imagine the setting that allows it, how the character would fit into the world, or even a character background.

Re: Once Were Minions

Think you're kind of missing the point. Let's try a different example. You and the other PC's are SS troopers stranded in say, Petsamo Finland in late 1945. You're not interested in killing Russians. You're not interested in whacking your former Finnish allies, You're not interested in fighting your way across Russia to join the Japanese in Manchuria. If you could, you might be interested in trying to get back to Germany, but the odds are that the Occupation Government would lock you up as war criminals once you made it home.

 

Why in the world is your character wasting time and effort trying to backstab his fellow SS troopers?

This is why much more detail is needed before it can be properly investigated. In my example, I was assuming I was an orc or troll, and that is how I play them. It is the fantasy hero board, after all. My orcs are very interested in their pack ranking, and will continue to work towards being top dog, even when this is not in their best long-term interest. They are kind of dumb that way. Monsters, being one-dimensional for the most part, are often played as the stupid evil type.

Now this SS trooper, he might not be completely evil. Maybe a son of a bitch, and disliked by every person in his squad, but not original evil. We can safely assume that the safety of the group is very important to him. It's even likely he'd sacrifice himself to save others - my orcs would never do that. But, being SS, just how much does he hate Jews, gays, gypsies, etc? Will he take stupid chances just cause them trouble? The trooper can hide within the local population if he chooses to do so. Evil minions from another dimension have a very good chance of not being able to ft in to the local population, and therefor are either always on the run, trying to take over, or confined to a ghetto/prison/small corner of the world.

Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game...

I have had one character with something similar to Detect Evil. Rather than detecting all evil in an area, it only works on one person at a time, and he had to concentrate on that person. Most of the time, he had to be holding, or at least touching them. An inner voice then informed him whether this person deserves death or not. It doesn't tell what they did, only if they had crossed the threshhold. As far as he knew, the voice was always right, but this worries him. He hopes the voice is using good criteria in making the determination, and really hopes it isn't his own twisted mind making this stuff up. Rather than stating it out as a power, it was just noted on the character sheet, and the GM would let me know how evil the person was if I asked. I'm actually surprised he never used this against me, as it was an obvious plot opportunity.

Re: Once Were Minions

That's what I was going for. Good vs Evil doesn't matter any more' date=' because Good has won. This is about what happens to 'Evil' beings once the cause of Evil has been destroyed. [/quote']

 

I don't understand how the morality does not matter. If I were good before, I would still act good. If I were an evil, backstabbing SOB before, I'm going to continue be that way. Does not matter that the side of Good won, and that I can never get back to my home in the swamps - I'm still going to take anything not tied down, slit throats of those that oppose me, generally make sure I come first, and screw everyone else. Sure, we have to work together to survive, but I never liked Joe anyway, and if the demon is going to attack us, I'm going to try and ensure Joe gets eaten as a distraction so I can get away.

 

If we are evil minions, my character would continue to act evil, and would always put himself and his concerns above the party's. If we're not really all that evil, and were just conscripts in the evil army, then there is little actual difference from playing elves, dwarves, and humans in the same situation. Either campaign can be good, but it's unclear to me which one you plan to do.

Re: Thermobaric bomb

I feel this really calls for GM fiat, and not dice or rules. Given the potential damage, it would be entirely reasonable to declare that everyone inside the building dies. But, this being comics, a series of miracles occur and the characters just barely live. So, decide if anyone on the team could survive. If you want them to, then decide how badly you want them to be hurt. Next, figure out the average number of dice to get them that hurt, and use that figure.

If I were the GM, I'd end the session with the building blowing up around their ears. I'd then tell them that any no shows next week are dead characters and give an evil smile. Next week, I start by taking all character sheets and marking down the damage I want each character to have. After I give the sheets back to the characters, I tell them the smoke is clearing. Your hearing is coming back. Some of you are badly hurt - here is what you did to survive. I then ask what they do now? And the game starts from that point.

If all you want is a trap that beats them up, simply pick a number out of the air and make a blast that big. If you want it to be a story moment, forget numbers and just describe the effects.

Re: Foods for those that just don't care anymore

Interesting story (and repped for being an interesting read)' date=' but I can't see the connection with "Foods for those that just don't care anymore". Not so very long ago, most people butchered their own meat. Livestock was the only means of keeping meat fresh when the only refrigeration you had was snow in winter (not very reliable unless you get "real" winters).[/quote']

 

Not so long ago? Heck, just last night I finished butchering two wild hogs I got last weekend. I put about 70 pounds of organic, free-range lean meat in my freezer, and will take most of it to relatives when I visit them next. Have also butchered sheep, rabbits, and deer in the past year, and goat in the past. I live on a farm - it's just a part of life out here.

Re: A galaxy of humans

With our current technolgy and enough place that every child can claim "his own land", population would increase a lot faster.

So we can populate the entire galaxy if we just start trying heavy enough.

Could vs would. While we could up the growth rate, I think it wouldn't go up much. On a low-tech frontier, there would be higher growth rates, but also higher infant mortality. If quality medical was available, there would be fewer born because more survive. Also, higher med tech probably means higher other tech, and so the extra farm hands aren't needed. In the long run, I think it comes down to home many kids does the average set of parents want to raise. They could raise 8, but I bet most would raise far less than this if they had the choice. I like the idea of population explosions on colony worlds, but personally don't think it would happen.

Re: What If? Fertility Control

"Whadda you mean yer preggers! I didn't want a kid! Who'd you sleep with?"

"Nobody baby. It's just been you. No one but you. I swear it!"

If pregnancy is mostly under conscious control, then the odd case of an unwanted or unexpected pregnancy could be seen as a bigger problem, and many would take it as proof of cheating. And the converse - not being able to have a child, when both say they want one - would be taken as proof someone is lying.

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

In my original champions campaign there were quite a few girl-on-girl couples' date=' but then we were teenage guys, so it was wish fulfillment. [/quote']

 

In my college group (all straight males) there was a definite chicks are better vibe from the GM. He seemed to strongly prefer playing females, and often remade male comic characters into females for the campaign. In 5 years playing in that group I can only remember 2 characters having relationships (1 lesbian, 1 hetero) that impacted the game, and it was very low key. Sexuality just didn't matter. We noted if the characters had significant others, but probably spent less than 10 minutes a week on romance and relationships. Those campaigns, and all my current ones are structured this way - it's about what the hero does at work, not the life of the hero. Adventure, not mundane. I have several characters that I've never even decided if they have parents or siblings, let alone sexual preference, because it just doesn't matter.

 

Both my shapeshifters are bisexual - it just seems a natural fit for them. If I was a shapeshifter, I'd certainly be so. Changling doesn't care about the sex of the partner, just what it may mean for the reputation of that identity, or for ruining/enhancing the reputation of the target. Jeannette (no code names in that campaign) is strictly hetero for whatever form she is wearing at the time, although she changes form more often than her clothes.

 

I've got one female character that is almost ready to experiment with bi-sexuality. She's also poly, into dominance and submission, and has heavy exhibitionist leanings. Another is known a nudist, but is finding superhero publicity to be a major problem for that lifestyle. I'm much more likely to give a character alternate lifestyles than alternate sexuality.

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

I still don't think there should be a Max Peak Pinnacle Human in Superhuman/Superheroe settings in the first place. I mean' date=' we agree that people can shoot energy, lift wieghts and fly in total defiance of the rules of physics/bilogy. Why should those limits apply to normal, superskilled/supertrained characters?[/quote']

 

The limits should apply, because that's how it works in some campaign worlds. In worlds where there is a smooth continuum from average joe to superhuman, it might not make sense, but not all worlds work that way. For example, in mine, 20 is a hard cap for human maxima. Anyone can have a 20, or even multiple 20s, and no explanation is needed. Anything over 20 needs to have some sort of explanation as to how it came about. However, there is no character with a 21 str or int - it just never happens. The forces of the universe that control super powers don't bother making supers that are just a tiny bit better than human - they are significantly better. Many characters don't have any characteristics over 20 - they just have powers. But when they do have a characteristic over 20, 95% of the time it'll be a minimum of 25.

 

But, this is all just meta fluff to me. As far as I'm concerned, the normal characteristic maxima costs should have never been included in the game. Either they can go over the human maxima, or they cannot. Make a choice, and stay with it.

Re: Final Destination

Orion is a vigilante, so very few would miss his passing. No family left, and no social life to speak of. He has an apprentice he is training (to be a hero, not a vigilante), but she doesn't know his secret. Genocide would be hopeful, and have a few restrained celebrations, but won't really believe he's really dead, even if they were the ones responsible. Law enforcement would not believe he is gone, and would keep looking for him.

He's already died twice in combat, so the rebirth arc is pretty clear. After being gone for a couple months, he reforms with somewhat altered powers. He may be more or less powerful, but his drive to be a vigilante is dampened, and he is momentarily at peace with himself. That won't last though, and sooner or later he will start hunting down criminals. With every rebirth he feels less of a need to personally and publicly carry out justice, and is slowly turning into an investigator that anonymously provides tips to the authorities and other heroes.

Re: Once Were Minions

So tell me.

 

Would anyone, (theoretically), want to play in this campaign?

Not much different than the minions of drow campaigns I and other have proposed over the years. Play the monsters fighting to survive in a world against them. Do evil unto others before they can do it to you. Trust no one, especially those in your group.

I think a big determinant of whether I (and others) would want to play is the expected morality of the characters. If we're monsters, but played in a basically good way, it loses the interest to me. I'd rather just play good humans stuck in the same conditions. If we're evil, and doing evil things just for the sake of being evil, then I have no interest. I have no interest in randomly killing, looting, and raping the local townfolk, and generally will not play with those that do enjoy this. But, if we're evil, trying to survive against a greater evil, and social roleplaying is featured, then I could get into it. Help all those in my band...until I need to knife one in the dark to get a promotion. Defend my brothers...but make sure they die enabling my escape, not the other way around. Speak praises of all my superiors when they are in earshot....and scheme against them the rest of the time. Becoming the boss is the goal, and the only goal. Everyone else is just a tool to use towards that end.

I like the idea, but am not sure how well I could play evil. 10 years ago, no problem, but now being a bad guy leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Now if we are evil, but doing evil unto those even worse than us, I like it better. If I was merely conscripted into the service of the Dark Lord, and never wanted to be evil, then it kind of loses the point.

Re: Ok GM's weigh in. We've been talking players CvK...how do you handle these things

So the rule is: don't take Disads you don't want to have come up in the game.

I come at this from a completely different angle. Disads = character, complications = metagame. All disads that can affect a character must be noted on the character sheet and/or character writeup. Every last one. No exceptions. Complications are those things that the player tells the GM before the campaign starts that they'd like to happen. If a character has family, they must be noted. If they are not to be part of any kidnap scheme, tell me that as well. Getting points is completely beside the point (pun not intended), and in fact, don't even bother to add up points for disads and complications, because it doesn't matter. One character can have 250 points of disads, and another may have 0. You have them because that is what the character concept requires, no other reason. If you are vulnerable to kryptonite, but just don't want to worry about it, that's fine. The villain may find out about this and try to synthesize kryptonite, or steal some. The adventure then revolves around stopping the villain beforehand, not dealing with the exposure effects afterward.

Create a character...don't just collect points.

Re: How would you write this up?

If all they do is call you, it's just background, and this would be my first choice on how to handle it. After a few jobs for them, I'd give you a free perk of a contact within the agency.

If they watch you, then you get points. Do they watch any other consulting psychologists, or are they perhaps watching you because you are superhuman?

If they require you to maintain certain credentials or act in a certain manner (they won't hire you if you work for known villains, have to attend regular Monday meetings, etc), then it might be worth some points.

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

Yes having Hawking or Einstein level intelligence is possible for a human. There are humans that have very high strength' date=' you can do this for every stat. What makes someone like Batman superhuman is that he has better than human abilities with many many stats. He's stronger, faster, Much more intelligent etc. A normal human can really only focus on a few things. You don't see many superstong guys IRL also with an advanced degree in Physics. That's because they focus on their strength to the detriment of their intelligence/ schooling.[/quote']

 

You see Batman differently than I do - maybe we've just read different issues. I never saw him as being that much stronger or more intelligent than the norm, for example. He's very highly trained. Smart, maybe even genius level, but not a 200 IQ. Has a ton of skills. Maybe his ability to put up with annoying teen sidekicks is superhuman, but I don't see anything else. I would say that much of what Batman does is because it's his book, and main characters always get excess handwavium and miracles, not because he is superhumanly strong or smart. The writers not letting anyone shoot him does not mean he is superhumanly fast or evasive, it just means they can't afford to kill him.

 

While an Einstein/Thorpe combo is highly unlikely, I would not say impossible, and thus not superhuman to my way of thinking. People are that smart and that athletic, even if only once per hundred years. Maybe once a millenium there is someone that is both, and can compose music like Mozart as well. Being at the absolute potential of humanity just makes you the best human, not superhuman.

 

It's really quite the let down that so many people don't allow the "Extremely well trained' date=' but otherwise normal guy" archetype. Well you do, but you hamstring them with unreasonable stat caps. So one can't play a super high dex Batman, Doc Savage or heck even the Black Mask (Superheroic Martial Artist).[/quote']

 

By my definition, super high stats is the same thing as saying superhuman. The human body can only do so much. If the character needs to do more, then it must be more than human. Whether either type of character is a good fit for a given campaign is a different matter.

Re: "We're just here to help -- honest!"

Silhouette would read minds (alien and former human) to see what really happened, and to try and determine just how much the human minds were affected. Using this knowledge, she'd start planning how to kick them off the planet.

Everyone else would either immediately start working on kicking them off the planet, or would head off to help those that could do this. I can't imagine any that would go along with it. If they changed and said they would only take volunteers, no matter how wacky the change, about half would wander off and totally ignore the aliens - no worse than any other cult out there.

Re: What defines a Superhuman?

If it could theoretically be done by a person in the real world, they are not superhuman. Doesn't matter how unlikely, just if it is possible or not. The character could be Einstein, Edison, Jim Thorpe, and Casanova rolled into one, but he's still just a normal human. If it can be done by training or learning, it isn't superhuman. I also don't consider any cyborgs to be super.

For any campaign I run, there are set characteristic limit for human potential. Anything over that is automatically super/meta/para, and requires justification in the character history. Having inherent powers, regardless of the value or utility, makes one a superhuman, and suspect by certain authorities and by Genocide.

As for superhero, I never use this term in game. You are either a hero, or not. Super does not matter at this point. It's what you did, not how it was done, that's important.

Re: Ok GM's weigh in. We've been talking players CvK...how do you handle these things

There seems to be a general assumption among most Hero players and GMs that every villain has high defenses. I've never understood this, as it does not conform to the genre. Most genre tropes seem to be written in stone, but not this one. Requiring every superhuman to have either a force field or high inherent defenses can be done, but just seems off to me. And if every super has a spandex outfit that gives 20PD, I'm going to expect it to be common for every cop, agent, and mook as well. Lord knows every overprotective soccer mom is not going to let her precious child wear anything less protective if it is available.

In my current campaign setting, at least half the bad guys do not have high defenses. If the villain has super strength, it's a very safe bet that he'll have enhanced defenses as well, but projectors, mentalists, and mages often do not, and it's very rare for martial artists to have more than 5 or 6 PD. Getting decent body armor is a key concern in the early storyline of the hero group. For any established villain there is general knowledge of their defenses, but for anyone new, the defense or lack thereof is a concern of the players. If players don't want to have to deal with this, I'll bump up the defenses or only use those with high defenses, but it's not the default.

This said, I expect villains to be killed, and the heroes definitely expect the villains to try and kill them. Players are strongly encouraged to have some type of resistant defenses. Mooks and agents carry guns, and they aren't afraid to use them. Cops typically shoot first, ask questions later, when powers are being used in a threatening manner. To a cop, holding a gun to a hostage and holding a glowing fist to the hostage is the same thing, and gets the same response. Players don't have to react in the same manner, but I don't mind if they do. They aren't heroes - they are super-powered cops that may or may not have a badge. I would discourage a strong CvK, but would not disallow it out of hand. I would disallow the crazy killer archetype, but a vigilante that targets certain individuals is fine.

In many cops shows, the bad guy gets shot at the end of the episode. It's almost always justified, of course. The cop never shows signs of remorse or mental problems - it was just another day on the job. The cop also rarely gets suspended, you never hear about an investigation, and no one seems to mind that the cop shoots 10 people a year. This would never fly in real life, of course, but it's a widely used trope. This is how I handle killing by default. Not at all realistic, but I have little interest in dealing with the bad press, investigations, court cases, etc. We can do all of this if the players wish, but I won't bother unless they ask for a storyline to include it in part of the campaign setup.

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

If any police officer tried to act the way Megaplayboy suggests' date=' they'd have Internal Affairs on thier butts so fast their heads would spin. There would be no cover up and none of the higher ups on the police force would support the officer who did it because stunts like that actually make it harder for the cops to do their job.[/quote']

 

Beatings and murders happen when someone snaps all the time. There's no reason to think cops don't snap once in a while as well as normal joes. Just because they will likely get in trouble does not mean it will never happen. There are crooked cops out there, and the existence of Internal Affairs hasn't stopped them, so why would it stop a beating? It makes it more unlikely, but it doesn't eliminate the possibility.

Re: Fantasy-Less HERO?

I've wanted to do straight historic fiction, but couldn't find anyone else interested. I'd use the Lionheart product from Columbia Games, as it has the maps and people and everything already detailed for me.

In many ways, a low fantasy and a no magic campaign can be very similar. Whether or not magic exists is immaterial - the character's belief in magic is the key. There may actually be no magic, but that won't stop most people from being highly superstitious and overly religious. They still do spells, make love potions, read entrails, and pray for miracles from the gods. Sometimes the princess does fall in love with the hero. But was it the love potion, or does she just like tall guys in chainmail? Everyone knows that monsters live in *that* valley, and so no one ever goes there. Besides, they are too busy fighting off the Saracens to care about griffons and dragons. Killing orcs is fun....but no different than killing the pagan barbarians on the frontier.

Re: When, if ever, would your character kill?

Would Batman hand over crooks to a system he knew was virtually certain to put them to death? Interesting question.

Very interesting. I don't think Batman would, because I see "No one dies. Ever." being his motto. He's against crime, but targets violent crime. Superman, on the other hand, I think would hand over criminals for execution without blinking. He's more a law and order and do what Big Brother says type. If the local government wants to execute, he'll go along with it, but would never do it himself.

Re: Unwilling Bank Robber

Silhouette would read his mind to be sure he thought the bomb was real, and to know what the villains look like. She'd also lock a force field around the bomb to contain the blast, just in case.

Orion would teleport him to a location where the bomb would do minimal damage. The robber could probably talk him into taking him to the drop-off point in the hopes that the bomb would be removed and/or bad guys captured. Orion would assume the bomb is going off regardless of what happens later, and would try to talk the guy into staying put and letting someone try to remove the bomb.

Bombshell would call the cops. Other than asking people to get a safe distance away from the bomb, she's helpless.