BvBPL

Re: Question: Can you take Cost END Only to Active after taking No END Persistent?

I don’t see why not.

Edit: Errr… wait a minute. Are you taking No END & Cost Only END to Activate? That’s specifically not allowed w/o GM permission (v1, pg 334). Not that there’s really a point to taking COEtA if you already have No END and Persistent. What would you gain from adding COEtA to a No END / Persistent power?

By the way, v1, pg 334 also has the best power EVER on it: THROWING BADGER!

Re: Quote of the Week from my gaming group...

Chris: “Is Roundtree, I mean Black-.”

Bruce: “Yes, Chris, Richard Roundtree is black.”

(Guy named Blacktree is our antagonist, but Chris got a little tongue-tied requiring Bruce to confirm Shaft’s ethnicity.)

Re: Quote of the Week from my gaming group...

"I just sodomized a giant robot with a parking meter."

Okay, so HERO’s flagship game is based on comic books, so presumably many folks here have some passing familiarity with comic books. This makes it (and Barbelith) the perfect place to ask: How would you create and run an RPG setting similar to the comic book works of Grant Morrison? Is it conceivable within the RPG framework? If you could put together such a setting, would players even want to play it?

And just to set the ground rules, I’m not talking about the relatively down to Earth runs Morrison had on New X-Men, All-Star Superman, 52, and the like. I’m talking about the weird stuff. Doom Patrol, Filth, and, of course, The Invisibles.

For those unfamiliar with Morrison’s weird work you may be able to get the gist of it by imagining the Black Lodge storyline from Twin Peaks on acid and with kung fu.

Re: Order of the Stick

Oh, I know someone did. You can probably track down the translation in the OotS forums. I think the TPB of the work also has the translation.

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

Then you are one of the people who can't figure out how Batman and Superman can be build on the same amount of points.

I am? That’s news to me.

I don’t see a lot of value in assigning uniform point values to all legends. For one, it closes up design space by limiting the range of points that can be assigned to any given character. By the same token, there’s the threat of making all the characters only useful at specific points in the PCs career. Let’s say, for example, that you set up a rivalry between Gawain and the party, which they resolve, and then start to look for the next rivalry in Lancelot. Well, by all rights Lancelot should be head and shoulders over Gawain, but if they’re built on the same points then you’ll have to modify Lancelot a fair bit to make him a believable step up over Gawain.

It is also make-work because the author needs to figure out where all the unused points that are left over go to for lesser characters. I mean, Sir Kay is less competent than King Arthur in every way that really counts, so once you’ve developed Arthur and established his level of proficiency you’d go to Kay and set him up to be largely less competent. Having set up Kay as noticeably weaker than Arthur in key areas, you’ll have a whole bunch of “extra” points for Kay that need to be spent to make the point values uniform. So these points get tossed at a whole bunch of miscellany and suddenly Kay can speak Swedish, or something, simply because he had points that needed to be burnt off.

Some characters are simply more competent then others and the way to document this mechanically is through a difference in total points.

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

This is where the issue becomes problematic. For use in a fantasy game' date=' I think that's the right benchmark - we want the PC's able to move into "legendary" status, not be outclassed and overshadowed by what are, ultimately, "just" NPC's. [/quote']

 

Legends that are geared to the mid-point of PCs careers (tier 2, below) are probably the most useful, dramatically speaking, as they can first play the role of mentor or role-model to the PCs; then later as peers, rivals, and competitors; and finally as underlings who the PCs have grown to trust and respect through their interaction.

 

I just picked two legends that would likely be on the two most distant points of the spectrum. I don’t think that a unified power level is all that helpful in discussions for the legends; there’s no reason that Sir Kay (King Arthur’s foster brother) needs be as powerful as Lancelot, for example.

 

I think a better way would be to tier the legends based on their combat ability (which, frankly, is probably the most relevant ability). Say have three tiers: one being as powerful as characters could ever possibly be themselves, another at the level where most characters find their stride as legends in their own right, and a third for characters that are about as powerful as a starting PC, but may have significant specialized skills.

 

So we might see something like this:

 

Tier one: Arthur, Lancelot, Fionn, Hercules, Guan Yu, Merlin

Tier two: Gawain, Galahad and most other Knights of the Round Table; Samson; Ali Baba; Robin Hood; Peter Pan; John Henry; Most Fairy Lords; Aladdin; Sinbad; Jason; Liu Bei and other principles in Romance of the Three Kingdoms; Cu Chulainn

Tier three: Sir Kay, Johnny Appleseed, Scheherazade

 

Obviously that list would be open to interpretation and leeway. I mean, it’s totally debatable whether or not Cu Chulainn has more or less martial prowess than King Arthur, just to cite one case.

 

In terms of actual power, I’d assume that these legends are most relevant to Fantasy Hero. Since the baseline points for Fantasy Hero is about 175+50, or 225 pts gross, and the average character might be assumed to earn 100 XP over a year of weekly gaming sessions, then I’d build the tier 3 characters w/ about 225 pts or less (but with “bonus” points for their fields of noncombat expertise), tier 2 characters w/ ~325 pts, and tier 1 characters w/ 425 pts or more. Of course, that’s just a rough outline and powerful tier 2 characters might approach tier 1 levels.

 

Also, I mentioned Johnny Appleseed because it’d be cool to have some American legends. There aren’t too many: Appleseed, John Henry, the Lone Ranger, and Tonto are the only ones that come immediately to mind (assuming we limit ourselves to legends set before 1900).

 

A valid point, but the legends mentioned to date are combat-capable. Johnny Appleseed wasn't a legend for combat abilities, and could certainly possess legendary level agriculture skills.

 

I think there is a place for legends that are not combat monkeys.

Re: Order of the Stick

I wonder where the sword and their other equipment came from.

 

Afaik that was impounded when they were imprisioned and belkar didn't had his stuff or an additional bag of holding when comming to the pile.

Belkar and Roy’s gear taken from them between 734 & 736. It is off screen so we don’t know exactly what happened to it. It seems plenty possible that Elan asked his dad for the gear as a favor at some point with the intent to give it back to Roy and Belkar. It’s also possible that Elan and Haley snagged it when they broke into the prison. This might have been explained, but didn’t see a need to go through 50 comics looking for one line about that.

Actually, I did look it up. Roy asked Haley to grab it gear in #773. So there you go.

As for Belkar’s line in 809, I’d say the ambiguity just adds more funny to the panel.

I want more Giant Strengthed Mr. Scruffy.

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

Thinking on it' date=' especially for Legendary Hero, I'd like to see some discussion of establishing just what level of ability qualifies one as "Legendary".[/quote']

 

I would ideally like to see legends that are peers of, or slightly better than, competent heroic PCs, with very highly experienced heroic PCs out-classing most legends.

 

Then again there’s a huge sliding scale in the legends category. I mean Fionn mac Cumhaill is going completely overpower Johnny Appleseed any way you slice it. Given this, I would assume that the quality of being a legend is more a reference to one’s status in folklore than a measure of the legend’s abilities.

Re: Order of the Stick

#809: Panel six is freaking awesome. Bonus points for Belkar responding to Roy but facing the raven. Also, the return of General Tarquin, whose personality is totally right for Elan and Nale’s dad.

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

Frankly a list of gods with their HERO stats is not a compelling product for me. I already have a copy of Legend and Lore and, better still, Bullfinch’s, and I do not need a phone book of deity stats without the rules support to run them in a setting.

Legendary HERO is much more compelling both because the principles would be more relatable.

Re: Heroes for pay

Of course, you can get paid. Right now, since you have another life. It will have to be Salary, and it's not a lot. Only $400 a week. (which would break down to $10 an hour for a 40 hour work week). But, for every "wanted" criminal you capture; you get paid. The amount you get paid is based on the level of their "wanted" status.

A great incentive for a “hero” / villain team up: new villain on the scene is wanted by PRIMUS so a new superhero goes out and captures him for the bounty. During transport to jail, another villain, actually the “hero” in disguise, busts the first villain out. Now the “hero”’s villainous ID has a bounty, so the first villain disguises himself as a hero and brings in the new villain for a bounty, who is then rescued by the first villain… lather, rinse, repeat.

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

Characters with firm belief in their deities rarely falter. To reflect this, a talent that allows characters with strong beliefs to act ahead of those with similar Dex during a single segment. It could be called faith-based initiative.

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

Some notes regarding "family trees" and deities co-opted from earlier faiths. Central/South America was rife with this. The Romans practically adopted the Greek pantheon... and then started "cross-breeding" with the Egyptian deities.

If you think that’s interesting, read The Divine Horsemen by Maya Deren. It goes into how voodoo practitioners use Catholic saints as focuses of worship for voodoo loa. For example, the statue of one saint is used as a focus of worship for the loa of snakes because the saint’s portrayal typically has the saint crushing a serpent under foot.

Re: Quote of the Week from my gaming group...

Grip: "I'll grab the helmet and jerk it off."

You can't make this stuff up.

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

I figure most people will be pretty reasonable about these things. I actually had a Hindu tell me he thought it would be pretty cool to see Hindu gods written up.

Oddly enough, I'm playing Hanuman (Hindu hero demi-god) in a Champions game.

Re: Resistant Question

Much thanks.

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

I know you said that you’d rather avoid made up mythologies, but I would love to see suggestions on developing anthropomorphic zeitgeists and embodiments of cultural phenomenon as neo-mythic creations, like the spirit of the gay ‘90s or the god of surrealism.

Given that many modern portrayals of myths show the mythic gods as relying upon the worship of mortals as a means of sustenance, it would be interesting to see systems in place that can describe this mechanically. This could include options to promote or discourage worship of one or another deity on a variety of social scales: village, city, county, country etc, and the effect that might have on the deity itself.

Similarly, guidance on how an entity may, or may not, ascend or descend from local spirit to an all-powerful deity would be great. Suggestion on how PCs in appropriate genres could obtain godhood would be cool too.

A section on developing believable priests, rites, laity, and places of worship, either from whole cloth or based upon real world ones, would be great too.

All that said, Legendary Hero does sound more appealing than Mythic Hero.

Assuming no other power modifiers, is there a functional difference between buying Resistant Protection and just buying up PD/ED and applying the Resistance advantage? As far as I can tell, these function and cost the same.

Re: USA 50 Discussion

>>>> Threats that would challenge Captain California would massacre half the other heroes there. They don't have powers that shore up each other's weaknesses' date=' [/i']

How about this: Threats that would challenge Superman or Thor would massacre Green Arrow or Hawkeye.

Having powers that shore up weaknesses to me seems like either subjective opinion or an opportunity for creative tactics.

Obviously, diverse sets and power levels are necessary for a book like this. I agree with you that a fifty person team is unlikely to all be at the same power level. However, the author can present information on what characters work well with each other based on their power levels and other factors. It may be reasonable to include information stating that Capitan California generally works alone, but that Silverline, Estrella, and Wind-Talker do team up frequently, presuming the latter three’s power levels are complimentary. Homogeneity among power levels isn’t necessarily a good thing for a book like this, as you point out, but being aware of who works well with whom in a team environment is a necessity in this genre.

In addition, suggestions on how to increase or decrease the threat level of individual characters is welcome as well.

Because you had the joy of discovery. You figured it out on your own. Plus, I want to write up powers like no one else.

If I want to have the joy of solving a puzzle, I’ll go and buy a Will Shortz book. I don’t buy RPG books to learn about geography. Presenting the power like this is, I feel, a disservice to the consumer.

Re: Staff of the Druid

I think one question to ask about the idealized power is whether or not you can use it to cross a ravine by stepping in an oak on one side and out from a maple on the other. If you can do that then the teleport option is appropriate.

Tunneling might be appropriate if your setting is full of redwood-esque megaflora. Otherwise I wouldn’t have a problem with a tunnel power having the SFX that it doesn’t do damage to the plant, but I can see how others would infer a different interaction.

Desolidifcation works nice if all you’re trying to get the character to do is move through plants unhindered.

As a final alternative, you could set up the power as a naked advantage to your run speed: not slowed by dense foliage. This wouldn’t let your character run through a redwood, but he’d still be much more agile in a forest environment then most characters. I’d say in most case, trees only take up about a square meter on the tactical anyway, so your character would be able to dodge around those pretty well. That said, this only a good power to get if your campaign actually simulates dense foliage as a terrain feature; it has been my experience that most campaigns do not.

Re: Villain gains the powers of a Wendigo

The cure is to pour some sort of hot grease' date=' such as bear fat, deer tallow, or fish oil, down the throat of the victim.[/quote']

 

So the Cannibal Spirit of the North can be defeated by butterscotch. Interesting.

Re: [LoH] The Mandragalore, 9/29 at 7:15PT

Where do we meet?

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

I think someone else pointed this out, but one interesting item is that the pulp forebears of modern superheroes often earned their wealth. John Carter, The Shadow, and Doc Savage all earned their wealth, as did neo-pulp hero Tom Strong, although both Savage and Strong “inherited” the benefits of ubermensch programs from their fathers.

Re: Billionaires: Supervillains earn, Superheroes inherit

Good point. By extension, business owners occasionally need to take actions that are less than altruistic for the good of their companies, such as staff reductions or opposing collective bargaining. Heirs to inherited wealth who do not operate their own businesses do not face the same constraints. This means heirs are permitted to be more heroic because they do not need to sully themselves with the concerns of the real world.

I’m sure that Batman and Ironman have laid people off in the past as being a business owner is a key element to each of their characters, but I’d have a hard time imagining Tom Strong (who is, as far as I can tell, a self-made man) directing a round of staffing cuts. In contrast, I’m sure Lex Luthor makes regular raids upon his company’s employee pension fund.