Resartus

Re: Succor Question

Because Aid is an instant power with a continuous effect, and 0 End succor is a constant power.

 

EX: Succorman 0 End Succors Hero Man for 20 extra Strength. Succorman is then knocked out. Hero Man's extra strength goes "poof." Same thing for if Succorman goes around a corner, loses LOS due to darkness, etc.

 

Aidman Aids Hero Man for 15 extra strength. Aidman is knocked out, blinded, and tossed off a cliff into the water in a sack. However, Hero Man still gets the Aided Strength, which fades at the normal, slow rate.

 

Don't get me wrong, sometimes Succor is more effective. But not always, and certainly not enough to be broken.

Thank you, that is exactly what I needed to know, I appreciate the examples.

Quick followup question, I'd like to build a succor based power that boosts the pilot while he's in the vehicle and have it fade immediately after the pilot exits the vehicle. Sort of a "requires continuous contact" limitation, I was planning on making it a -1/2 limitation, does that sound right or is it too much?

Re: Succor Question

I'm pretty sure the points wouldn't fade like aid. You'd be maintaining the points every phase' date=' even though you're not actually using endurance, so if you get knocked or stop, the points dissapear instantly.[/quote']

 

 

Ok, that's what I was hoping would happen but then why would anyone ever buy Aid?

If you add the Reduced Endurance +1/2 advantage to Succor what happens to the boosted points? Do they fade like Aid now that there isn't any endurance required? Would you set a trigger to stop the aid?

Re: Storn Art from idea to full picture

So does this crystalline stuff' date=' melt over time? Does it smell like sweat when it does? Eww... Interesting idea, but a little gross...[/quote']

 

The crystal is very hard but a bit on the fragile side. I'd intended to build the armor as ablative. I'd even considered making it always on, Shard would have to carry a solid steel bar to shatter the armor when he needed to eat. It would grow back in place within a few minutes.

 

I hadn't thought about the smell actually, might make for a decent disadvantage. I'd also considered giving him a dependency on mineral supplements and water to keep his powers active.

Re: Storn Art from idea to full picture

Shard: A bald man of mixed heritage in is mid twenties that was very heavy into body building. He signed up for a experimental muscle mass treatment so that he could win a state competition and became Shard. On command his sweat forms a crystalline armor around his body, this effect also gives him claws at the ends of his fingers and a series of spines down is forearms. The spines can be broken off for throwing or used as a weapon and regenerate quickly. The crystal armor destroys his clothing when it forms around him and is translucent so you can still make out his skin color and musculature underneath. The armor forms a shield in front of his face that not only protects him but obscures his features to protect his identity. It only takes him a few seconds to change into Shard so he usually has enough time to shed his clothes but in an emergency he'll just rip through them.

If Shard's abilities are difficult to control it would be easy to picture him as a frustrated young man that believes the world owes him for his new misfortune. So he uses his powers to commit larger and larger crimes to get what he wants.

If Shard's abilities are easy to control it's easy to picture him being ecstatic with he new gifts and willing to use them to help out his neighbor hood that is being overrun by local gangs.

Re: I need help designing some equipment

Say' date=' Resartus, you didn't by any chance get the idea for this from [i']Aura[/i]

Battler Dunbine, did you?

 

Major Tom

Nope. This is a game/story idea that a friend of mine and I have worked on for 15+ years. Neither of us could ever find and game system that dealt with all of the complexity and still kept things playable. Hero is doing a better job by far than anything else I've come across. I'm hoping I'll actually get to run a game in the setting finally.

That being said, my friend and I are both anime fans and have watched countless hours of OVA and series over the years. The setting definately has a anime feel to it and very high power levels. The strongest NPC in the setting is capable of 13d+1 RKAs when he's in his mecha, the rough equivalent of a 16 Megaton bomb. When he pushes it becomes a 14d6 RKA or the equivalent of 64 Megatons. Punching holes through mountains isn't unheard of in this setting.

If I get the background to convert to my liking I'll start posting some material soon. I'll probably put it in the "other" genre section because it's got a very magi-tech slant and it's strictly sci-fi.

Re: I need help designing some equipment

In the campaign every PC and almost all of the NPCs have 2 VPPs. There is a material in the setting that will amplify the powers of anyone in contact with it. The more material the more of a boost. Here is a quick chart that I'm working from right now, I may tweak this after playtesting:

Kilograms of mass to Active points added to the pool

1 -> 5

2 -> 10

4 -> 15

8 -> 20

16 -> 25

32 -> 30

and so on, just keep doubling the mass for each additional 5 active points.

I'm planning on using the focus limitation for most of the equipment, so a full suit of armor made from this material (weighing 32 Kg) would look something like this:

Hard Armor Suit

Armor (8 PD/8 ED) (24 Active Points); OIF (-1/2), Normal Mass (-1), Real Armor (-1/4) (Total Cost: 9 points) plus VPP (+30 base/+15 control cost) (45 Active Points); OIF (-1/2) (Total Cost: 30) plus VPP (+30 base/+15 control cost) (45 Active Points) (Total Cost: 30). Total Cost: 69

The problem comes in when I need to build the mecha used by the PCs in the campaign. These mecha have a core skeleton made of the applification material and are in contact with it only while there piloting the mecha. The mecha are large enough that they can be damaged seperately from the PC so they don't really qualify as focus like powered armor. The mecha are also sentient and alive (picture large protoplasmic gel that can think) so they can act independent of the PC. This means they need an AI computer or need to be bought as a follower. The cores in these mecha weigh 2 metric tons and boost the PCs VPPs pool by 60 active points. The mecha themselves are about size 6 (from UMV, about 8 meters tall) but double the mass (13 Metric tons total).

Here's how I want the boost effect to work:

1.) I want the effect to fade as soon as the pilot leaves the mecha.

2.) I don't want the mecha's AI to have to reapply Aid as it's first action every turn.

3.) I want the effect to have a specific and fixed amount of boost to the VPP.

4.) I don't want the powers in the pool affected by the boost. The PC will have to use their power skill to rework them to take advantage of the increased size of the pool.

5.) I don't want it to cost a ridiculous number of points.

Here is how Aid stacks up:

1.) This is probably a -1/2 limitation.

2.) I could make the Aid a constant power.

3.) This is just standard effect.

4.) This currently doesn't work with Aid, it's required to affect a power in the pool. I can just hand wave this of course which would also bring the cost down a bit as well.

5.) If I wave the requirement to boost the power(s) in the pool when the pool is boosted I have the following cost:

Power Boost: Aid Gaean VPP 30d6 (standard effect: 90 points), Continuous (+1) (600 Active Points); OIF Bulky (-1), Limited Power (Only while touching the core; -1/2), Others Only (-1/2) Total Cost: 200

If I write it to affect every power in the VPP I get the following:

Power Boost: Aid Gaean VPP 30d6 (standard effect: 90 points), Continuous (+1), all [special effect] powers simultaneously (+2) (1200 Active Points); OIF Bulky (-1), Limited Power (Only while touching the core; -1/2), Others Only (-1/2) Total Cost: 400

The first method is closer to the effect I want and after the discount for it being a vehicle the boost costs 80 points (for both VPPs). The second method has an undesirable side effect of boosting the powers in the VPPs but is technically more correct and costs 160 points after the vehicluar discount. If the boost alone were bought as a OIF it would cost 120 points so the above options are that bad after all. Just as a thought, what would the limitation be for Only one specific individual instead of Others Only? I'm thinking at least a -1 maybe even a -11/2. That would help a bit more as well.

Any comments or suggestions on a better way to model the boosting ability would greatly appreciated. Otherwise I'm going to stick to the cheaper of the two choices for Aid for the mecha.

I still realtively new to the Hero system and I'm trying to define a very central piece of gear for an old campaign setting that I'm porting to Hero and I'm looking for some input on how to do it.

I need to design a vehicle (humanoid mecha) that is as independant as a follower (it's alive) but is able to amplify the pilot character's power pools and act as an endurance battery while the character is inside it. The vehicle part seems easy, even the independence issue can be solved by giving the vehicle an INT and EGO characteristic. But I'm unsure about how I should cost the power pool boost and the endurance battery as they seem to fit better as a focus. I've thought about using Aid but I'm looking for a specific level of boosting that is on only while the character is in the vehicle.

How would you build powers into a focus and still have that focus occasionaly act independently and be separately attackable?

How would a 4 DC RKA be handled with reduced penetration? For example, the Browning 9mm does 1d6+1. If I gave it reduced penetration (for using hollow point ammo as an example) what would I do with the +1 to damage? Would I treat it like a half die as in the FAQ and just roll the remaining 1d6? Or would I split the 4 DC into two rolls of 1/2d6? Or would I split the 4 DC into two rolls of 1d6-1?

Thank you for your time in answering this question!

Re: P90 Revised

I take it thats almost 2 inches in the real world, not game inches I'm guessing here backface deformation means how far the side of the armor against your body can be pushed in by an incoming round? 1.7 Inches is a lot of distance, especially when you're talking about the human body. Press on your rib cage - I suspect that they won't flex into your chest cavity 1.7 inches before they start hurting

 

And before anyone thinks it, I'm not being antagonistic

 

As for the severing limbs rules, I'm not up to speed on them, so I'll have to pass on that one for now. I'll read up on them tonight though.

 

There are going to be lots of opinions on this, and for sure no solid middle ground to stand on with this issue. Grit and damage levels are going to be a GM thing to measure. For personal firearms, I think the general levels outlined in the exisitng firearms are acceptable - in terms of damage levels. Two common solutions are to 1) increase the STUN level; 2) utilize more of the optional combat/damage rules (which you are). You should also do a search in the main Hero forum - you'll find lots of good threads on this issue.

 

Aroooo

You're right that was real world inches not game inches, as it turns out the 1.7" messurement is in the standard because it's considered the maximum safe distance the armor can deform into your body. I was reading an article about the testing that mentioned how little this was compared the having CPR performed on you. Keep in mind that it's over so quick you barely have time to register it and the human rib cage is really designed to handle a lot of flex.

None the less I agree that 1 BODY damage could work as a nasty bruise that takes a week or so to heal up and that dovetails nicely with the healing rules. And the losing a limb rule seems to be a simplification of the Imparing and Disabling optional rules on page 278. The full Imparing and Disabling rules require a much stronger hit to a limb to cause permanent injury so my estimation of a single point of BODY damage has changed significantly.

I don't think you're being antagonistic at all, this has been helpful.

I went looking for "weapon damage" in the system discusion area and found the chart that I was looking for. It equates damage classes with ft-lbs of kinetic energy that I can use to convert weapons stats with. It will also help in converting rounds that are hotloaded, you can push some of the weapons in the main book up a whole damage class this way. This should create a lot more variety for my players so I'm happy!

I'm still going to tweak a few things though to better fit my take on them. I'm moving the light kevlar (IIa) vest to defense 6 which will stop a .380 and below solidly but will still allow "bruising" levels of damage from 9mm on up, more than "bruising" if they're hotloaded. I'm also moving the heavy kevlar (III/IV) vest up to defense 12, they really are capable of completely stopping a round from an AK-47 without wearer really feeling it because these vests have ceramic inserts. Plus the newer Spectra based vests are mesurably better that the older Kevlar based ones. hmmm... Mabye I'll just add the Spectra based vests as an incremental improvement and leave the Kevlar vests as they are now. Yes, more variety is good! Lastly I'm moving the damage for the Berret .50 BMG to 10 damage classes for a total of 3d6+1, at 12,000+ ft-lbs. it has the KE output to justify it. Plus I just love the damn thing, if I ever win they Lotto I'm buying one.

As another aside your call on the damage for the P90 was spot on. The muzzle output of the P90 is 380 ft-lbs and the cutoff point for 4 DC is 400 ft-lbs. I also found an example for creating new power advantages in the main book called "semi-armor piercing" it reads like a perfect fit for how I under stood the SS190 round. However it would keep the P90 from being able to penetrate regluar kevlar (IIIa) vest with increasing it's damage to 2d6-1 and I'm not sure that I want to do that.

Back to the topic at hand does anyone have any other weapons that they want to post so we can add them to our own armorys? I'm going to try and find my old copy of 3G^3 and see what I can come up with this weekend. I'm going to start with the weapons in GURPS High Tech and work towards GURPS modern firepower.

Happy hunting!

Re: P90 Revised

I did a little more reading in Fred on taking damage, the part about severing limbs seemed to sort it out the best for me. It only takes 3 BODY damage to sever a limb from a person's body if they have a Con of 10. This makes 2 BODY damage seem like a lot more than bruising. Granted it does say that the 1-2 BODY damage could represent a bone fracture, but UL standards require that the 'Backface Deformation' be no more than 1.7" on a IIa vest. It doesn't seem like that's enough to crack a rib, but I could be wrong there.

I'm sorry to be so picky about this, but I'm looking at converting Transhuman Space to Hero and the players' characters are mostly going to fit into the 'Heroic' level. The players are realism buffs and I'll be using a lot of the optional combat rules to increase the 'grit' level of the campaign. I'm using the P90 as an exercise to make sure that I've got a good feel for the how and why weapons and armor are built the way they are so I can explain it to my players.

This discussion has definitely been helpful so far, thank you.

Re: P90 Revised

In digging around for reviews and statistics on the P90 and Kevlar armors in general I found a few things that have made me supect the Kevlar stats in Fred. This could just be a bad assumption on my part but this is how I've mapped the Kevlar armor stats on page 334 to the real world:

Armor Def Real World Equivalent

Light Kevlar 5 Threat level IIa vest

Kevlar 9 Threat level IIIa vest

Heavy Kevlar 11 Threat level III or IV vest

A Threat level IIa vest is supposed to completely protect against a 9mm round which does 1d6+1 according to page 332 of Fred. The max damage from a 9mm round would allow 2 points of BODY damage to get through the vest. Is the correct? Does 2 points of BODY damage correlate to the large bruise that you would get after being shot with a 9mm while wearing one of these vests? If so then I'm fine with the damages and I need to get a better handle on what BODY damage really means. If not then does anyone have any modern armor stats to go with our modern guns?

Re: How about the P90?

One good conversion source mentioned before is 3G^3 (Guns Guns Guns) from the folks at Blacksburg Tactical Research Center (http://www.btrc.net/html/catalog.html#3G3). [This copied from the first page of this thread...]

 

Aroooo

I have an old copy of 3G^3 around here somewhere, have they updated it to cover Fred?

Re: Re: How about the P90?

Originally posted by Aroooo

From the Stargate [Hero] material Hunter and I (mostly Hunter) are working on:

 

P90 (5.7x28mm): (Total: 75 Active Cost, 21 Real Cost) Killing Attack - Ranged 1d6+1, +2 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/2), 4 clips of 50 Charges (+3/4), Autofire (10 shots; +1) (65 Active Points); STR Minimum 12 (STR Min. Cannot Add/Subtract Damage; -1), OAF (-1), Beam (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4), Limited Range (200m effective range) (-1/4) (Real Cost: 17) plus Sights (optical and/or laser): +2 OCV (10 Active Points); OAF (-1), Real Weapon (-1/4) (Real Cost: 4)

 

We're currently debating adding AP or Penetrating based on comments on the show and the details about the P90's ammo (http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/tw_57x28system.htm).

 

Aroooo

I've played a lot of other systems over the years but I'm fairly new to Hero, some of the folks in my gaming group are very into the hardware their characters use in their games, so I'm trying to learn how to convert things we've used before into Hero as accurately and with as much detail as I can.

I like the write-up but it seems a little underpowered in a couple of ways. I was thinking the damage would be closer to a rifle given that the SS190 is basically a cut-down rifle round. Something like 2d6 or 2d6-1.

Shouldn't the Autofire be a little higher? The P90 has a cyclic rate of 900 rounds per minute giving it 15 rounds a second, I thought that should translate to an Autofire (15 shots; +11/2). If Autofire doesn't work that way please let me know, I'm still trying to get a feel for this. And yes I know that the +11/2 version of the modifier would actually allow an autofire with 20 shots but I wanted to cap it at the actual cyclic rate.

The Strength minimum seems a little high, the SS190 round has significantly less recoil than a 9mm round and the P90 is supposed to be easier to control than a H&K MP5 even with it's relatively light weight (3Kg). What factors lead you to use a minimum of 12? I was thinking that 10 or 11 would be more appropriate.

The P90 is designed to be used two-handed but it can be shot one-handed in a pinch. Does this allow you to use the Two-Handed limitation?

I'm leaning towards giving the P90 an AP attack. The only other game related material I have on it says that the round is considered a semi-armor piercing round. It's basically good against soft armors like kevlar but not necessarily very good at penetrating harder armors like a titanium-ceramic insert.

In any case, thank you for the write-up, I'm looking forward to any additional feedback on this.

How about the P90?

Has anyone taken a stab at producing stats for the FN Herstal P90?