Rebar

14 hours ago, Amorkca said:

Is your GM not going to allow a 40 Str character to do a haymaker?  That would exceed the AP Cap but only due to a maneuver...

He will definitely allow that.

The AP cap is simply to discourage one-trick ponies / walking Howitzers.

1 hour ago, dmjalund said:

but 2 rolls of 3 is only 216 squared- which is 1 in 46656

Right. But the claim was 3 in a row.

I know what you're saying. Once an 18 is rolled, the chance of rolling two more is 46,656. I agree.

But that first 18 will only come up once in 216 rolls.

12 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

What is the 5e length of a Line?  2” per 5 AP, I think, for a +1 advantage. 

No. remember, I can run all over the battlefield - so a line wouldn't  be sufficient. I'd have to buy the AF as "any shape," then limit it as "only hexes he passes through".

 

buying PSLs to offset the OCV and DCV penalties of Grab Bys (including multiple Grab Bys) seems like it would be a reasonable approach. 

 

Yep. Got those.

 

Using the 6e maneuver, three PSLs for Grab By puts the OCV mod to -0, add in four more (2X more) for multiple Grab Bys and you can hit three targets (X + 1 targets) at your normal OCV.  Four DCV PSLs and you get your normal DCV back as well.

 

With decent rolls (and/or more PSLs, maybe some +2 OCV skill levels with one maneuver), he barrels through four opponents, hurling them to the ground (or Throwing them a few “ back given his 40 STR), grappling a fifth at the end of his move to hold and Squeeze, or Slam into a wall, should he wish to do so.  As the targets are struck momentarily, I’d consider these Standing Throws.

 

He does 8d6, so he is not breaking the DC cap suggested by 40 AP, he’s not buying anything that costs over 40 AP and he simply uses his STR with a combat maneuver.  Especially heavy targets are resistant to being Thrown, as they reasonably should be.  As a Multiple Attack, he pays STR END for each attack attempted (which is consistent with zslane’s charge of END for each use of TK – edited my earlier Q), but no extra END.  He can shape the group attacked as finely as he can shape his running path.  And he leaves a bunch of prone baddies in his wake.

I will process that, thanks.

13 hours ago, dsatow said:

 

... the active cost of a single power will be less than the limit, but most GMs will just look at the final damage output with the advantage and declare it as the active point of the attack.  

 

Really?? ? I would not have thought that to be the way most GMs would see it.

Regardless, I doubt my GM will see it that way. He's got an AP cap simply to discourage single-attack "Walking Howitzer" type concepts.

58 minutes ago, Tom Cowan said:

if you wish to really mess with things try mega scale on the knock back

Heh. No. 

12 minutes ago, dsatow said:

i'd probably do it as HA with double knockback, but that's not a guaranteed flying situation if you do under 7 dice on average.

 

Right, which, given a 40AP cap, is pretty hard to do.

But there's another probem with HTH. It's essentially adding directly to my STR (it'll certainly be more than 8D6 HTH damage). And that should surely be considered a violation of the AP cap.

I don't need to do more damage than allowed, I just want to do more knockback.

I guess I could add a 'only for the 'purpose of knockback' limitation, and see what the GM thinks.

1 hour ago, Lucius said:

 

I could be mistaken, but I figure the first to be about one in a hundred thousand

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks I'm probably wrong but won't quantify HOW probably wrong

3 18s should just be 1 in 216 cubed, by my reckoning. That's a hair over 10 million.

HGv5.

In another thread, I was building a tornado-like character that would whirl across the battlefield, knocking several foes flying with his spinning fists of doom.

It was a dead-end. Turns out, I had completely forgotten that there is no such thing as a "Multiple Move Through"; there is only a Multiple Move By. (Thanks, I guess, to Simon, who incited me to refresh my memory of the rules after a long absence).

A Multiple Move By does STR/2 + velocity/5. In a max 40AP game, the very best I can do is 4D6 from STR + 4D6 from 20" running. That's an average 8 BODY for knockback. Minus 2D6, and I get an average 1" knockback. Not what I was hoping for.

Applying increased knockback - in any form - does not actually help at all. (Try it. Stay within the AP cap.)

So:

Since my concept is that of knocking multiple baddies flying, I am trying a different construct to get the effect.

I'm looking at applying TK - linked to the Move By maneuver - or some such set of limitations - and 'No range' because he'd have to successfully hit the baddie.

I don't intend to overpower it. I'm just looking for a few inches of simulated Knockback. I guess I'm essentially trying to create a "Multiple Move Through".  I'm less interested in damage than I am in sending them flying.

1a] Is there any reason why this would not be a valid combination to get the effect? TK is a Constant power, so I don't think its a problem having it last the whole action.

1b] Would I have to buy it as Area Effect, (to cover every hex I pass through), or would you as a GM allow it to apply as I made a successful attack against each baddie?

2] If it were allowed, how do you suppose the actual knockback and the extra knockback would apply? Would you count TK push as in addition to the STR+Velocity knockback? Or would you disqualify the normal Move By knockback and only apply the TK?

If no to both, do you have any suggestions about how this concept could be realized?

On 7/12/2018 at 9:04 AM, Tech said:

 

Fortunately, it wasn't me but my brother rolled three 18s in a roll, one after another. Never seen that happen before, never seen it since.

 

Of course, I've also had the pleasure of seeing a friend roll two Perfect 3s one after another.

 

Wow. Those are both 10 million-to-one odds.

2 hours ago, Ockham's Spoon said:

As always, you should build the device depending on the effect you want (muscle lock or knockout?).  But for what it is worth, the official taser build from the Hero System Equipment Guide is:

 

Taser: Blast 8d6, NND (defense is insulated ED; +1) (80 Active Points); OAF (-1); Limited Range (8m; -¼), 1 Recoverable Charge (-1¼). Total cost: 23 points

 

This is the version that shoots a metal dart into the target and conducts electricity through wires that go from the dart to the taser.  You can do a no range version too with just a different set of limitations.

Huh. I thought it would be several charges, each in its own clip. So, you can pop a new one on, but it takes a phase or so.

4 hours ago, dsatow said:

 

Not an anachronism.  They were introduced in the late 70s.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmNXZbyvclw

 

 

According to wiki, Mace Spray was invented in the late 60s.  So mace spray (not pepper spray) has been around a while too.

Yes. I checked on that.

It existed, but, as I said, it would not have been standard issue for Police for a decade or more. Hardly right to include it as "standard equipment" in a package deal.

7 minutes ago, Simon said:

Yeah...HD is following the rules of the system.  Know the rules and building something in HD is as easy as the particular construct allows.

 

I would again suggest you spend some time familiarizing yourself with the rules.  Remember: you posted another thread wondering why “Instant Change” wasn’t available.

It's still just software, It can't account for every construct.

I am quite familiar with the rules. When last I checked (though granted, it's been a while), Instant change was a 5/10 point power. I know there was a construct using Shapeshift somewhere. Maybe it was in the rulebook where I saw it.

To this example:

Quote

 

"You mean anytime he runs, people around him go flying?"
...
"Running doesn't do damage."

 

STR doesn't do damage all the time either. It does damage when you apply it as an attack.

Not that I'm still defending the construct, just pointing out that a Tasmanian Devil-like character can conceivably be considered doing extra knockback from velocity alone. It's not an outrageous construct.

Simply applying "does knockback" would mean that, when damage is applied through velocity from running, the advantage on running can conceivably apply.

6 hours ago, Greywind said:

Add it to the STR that affects the damage.

I would. The problem is the AP cap.

If it is related to STR, then - no matter how I try to construct it, the total of the STR damage cannot be more than 40AP.

That's why I thought of applying it to the other side of the damage - from velocity. With as much as 20" of running in a move-through, that's an additional 6 1/2 dice I could be leveraging.

5 hours ago, Simon said:

Again, I would suggest you spend some time familiarizing yourself with the rules of the system.

 

Sorry, I seem to be making the wrong impression. ? I'm not new.

I've been into Hero Games since 1985 - when it was merely Champions! The SUPER Role-playing Game! (I may still have my v1 rulebook in and old box). I've built several hundred characters, including those of my teammates. They come up with the ideas - I'm the guy that writes up the character sheets and crunches the numbers.

I'm not pushing the margins of the creation mechanics because I don't understand them, I'm pushing the margins because I'm Looking for new, interesting character ideas. If I'm not exploring odd power combinations and new SFX then I'm yawning.

Now, granted, it has been about 5-10 years since I could cobble together my team for a game, so I'm a little rusty.

And some of the trouble I'm encountering here is crossover with trying to convince Hero Designer to build things the way I want. When I'm creating characters on paper, the paper never tells me I'm not allowed to do something that I know I can do. So, I end up trying to build them in ways that HD will allow.

OK, I guess I see your point. Running does not, in-and-of-itself, do damage, therefore - even if I applied 2x Knockback to it, it would  do 2x0 Knockback.

So is there no way of applying a knockback modifier to the velocity damage?

I have to buy a power to simulate extra damage from velocity?

15 hours ago, Simon said:

You’re applying Modifiers to the Naked Advantage, but never specifying what the NA is.

 

You may want to read the documentation.

Yeah, I think I figured it out. I was  using the Add Modifier button. I need to  use the Add Naked Modifier button.

On 7/17/2018 at 8:06 PM, Amorkca said:

You might want to do extra velocity damage on maneuvers; Move by & Move through.  With the extra Knockback on your STR that would transfer to the maneuvers.

Right, but with an AP cap, I can't have the actual power exceed the cap. So, the attack itself can't exceed 40AP. How would I buy the extra damage? HA? EB?

I doubt the GM would allow me to apply my STR, - and on top of that - apply extra damage to the same attack.

But running is a separate power that I can use simultaneously, and I can put 'does knockback' on it. Using a combat maneuver allows me to apply two completely separate forms of damage: an attack, plus velocity damage.

On 7/17/2018 at 12:35 AM, Greywind said:

Running doesn't do damage. Ever. So, hard to justify it doing knockback.

It does if you buy it with the 'does knockback' advantage.

Actually, I just realized it's moot.

Tasers would be a huge anachronism in a campaign set in the 80s.

I intended as standard issue for Port Authority Police.

Not.

I'm not even sure they'd have mace. Not standard issue, anyway.

Sorry.

4 hours ago, Pattern Ghost said:

The thing about Tasers is, as soon as you stop applying current, the target recovers instantly. They don't actually knock people out.

Oh! Right.

7 minutes ago, dbcowboy said:

Personally I wouldn't allow it as a GM.  If a player wanted 2 different attacks with either autofire or extra knockback in a MultiPower I'd require they build them as Energy Blasts with said advantages.  

 

Are you saying you would allow them to buy naked ads on their STR, just not in a MP?

It's a pity Increased knockback is so expensive.

For a given max AP, you get no benefit.

For a given 40AP:

40 STR gives you average 8 BOD for KnB.

26 STR w/ 1.5x KnB (+1/2 = 39AP) gives you average 5D6 x1.5 = 7.5 BOD for KnB.

22 STR w/ 2x KnB (+3/4 = 40AP) gives you average 4D6+1 x2 = 8.5 BOD for KnB.

Thus the entire net effect is that ... you have a significantly reduced STR - and that's all.

Looking at it without an AP max doesn't help.

You've got a 40STR, which averages 8 BOD for KnB.

If you buy 2x KnB on that, it will cost you 30 points, and give you 16 BOD KnB.

Or, you could just buy +30 STR for and get 14 BOD KnB.

So, you're getting a whopping 2 BOD for KnB - at the price of 30STR (and all that you could do with that).

This power is not in HD5.

I saw a build for it using ShapeShift, I think, that came out to the same number of points.

(Looking for 'change into costume only' option.)

I'm obviously doing this wrong.

I'm trying to buy a Naked modifier on my STR: 2x knockback +3/4

I buy the Naked Advantage power.

I set its Max Base Cost to 25 (the amount of STR I want to have the addie).

I add the 2xKnB modifier.

And set 'Applies to' to STR.

But it tells me the AP is zero and the Real Cost is zero.