Kirby

Re: Storn's Art & Characters thread.

I must state that I'm a bit surprised that Death Tribble hasn't commissioned an Octopussy yet - A cat (or cat-hybrid) with tentacles. Many a James Bond films could provide something clever.

Re: HKA's and STR in Champions Complete

Only if they are super-special daggers. As Lord Liaden stated a regular dagger with the 'real weapon' limitation is limited to twice the base damage (or at GMs option it can do more than that but then takes full damage itself and probably breaks).

 

This is why the Hulk actually used weapons on and off during the Planet Hulk story arc but there's no point in him using mundane Earth weapons.

That would definitely fall under the abuse category in my book.

1) Would Grond know how to use daggers?

 

2) Would the daggers be able to withstand the abuse and stresses that Grond would inflict on them?

Re: Damage reduction against flame attacks (easy question)

I concur with both Lucius and CrosshairCollie, although for different reasons.

Re: Rules You Didn't Know Until Champions Complete

If Superman is as hard as steel (or harder), then me punching him full strength would result in me breaking my hand, just as if I had punched the side of a tank full strength.

It also always slightly irked me that bare-fisted a "monk" might fights a "Knight" in full steel armour, punching him and not hurting his hands.

Another side note: Electricity doesn't do extra damage to knights in full armor; in fact, it protects them.

/end side topic derail

Re: Rules You Didn't Know Until Champions Complete

Yes and no.

 

I'm assuming....

 

I don't necessarily concur....

 

...no trouble hitting each other with fists, so that is not the logical....

 

...the rules and the player is conversant with them....

 

No accounting....

1) Player preferences don't matter if you have one example where it doesn't make sense to you.

2) You don't understand why a lone author would write a story for a comic, cartoon or movie about bricks using vehicles because the HERO system doesn't always make it beneficial.

3) Any assumption you make is a talking point, regardless of real examples disproving it.

4) You use player knowledge over character knowledge and assume everyone would to.

5) You'll argue against any response, even if you initially agree with it.

Things that make you go, "Hmm."

Re: HKA's and STR in Champions Complete

So you can give Grond daggers and he can kill Dr. Destroyer?

Re: The Villain City

Well' date=' there is a difference between being able to kill individuals at will and being able to take on the US army. Threatening the President, even if you have have a clearly demonstrated ability make good on your threat, is only going to take you so far.[/quote']Yeah? You and what army? Oh, that one.

Re: Organization for use in both Very Powerful Heroic and Standard Superheroic gaming

What's the point level difference? You only mentioned the (player?) characters around 275 points. Is this the low-end game? And how Superheroic are you talking? 350? 700?

With what you've provided, I would start with the lower-end character write-up first. Then create a higher-end character as well, using the low-end one as the template. If you have Watchers of the Dragon (4E) by any chance, they do a great example of this with the different levels of ninjas.

Re: Rules You Didn't Know Until Champions Complete

It's about source material from the genre the game is striving to emulate. If the characters do this all the time in the source material' date=' it seems reasonable to expect they'll do it all the time in the game. An advantage encourages this to happen frequently in the game, and a disadvantage discourages it.[/quote']And an advantage with a disadvantage makes it player's preference. No big mystery there.

And why do we find that such an obvious choice? It's not because it looks cool. It's because it is more effective - it does more damage.

You're assuming that it doesn't look cool for everyone then? You're making more assumptions. You're stating that people wouldn't use a bat over fists because of A) range' date=' or accuracy, thus they would only use for C) Damage. That's a fallacy. If one person is swinging a baseball bat, he has all three of those advantages. The bat has a longer reach, the bat is as accurate or moreso and quicker, as well as the bat doing more damage. The downside is a swing-and-a-miss can leave you exposed. You're changing the topic again. Your original point that I was responding to was about the Hulk and Thing using cars. Yes, that looks cool to most of the [i']target audience[/i]. The laws of physics aren't really adhered to in this genre.

All other things being equal' date=' 13d6. But, all other things being equal, all other things are rarely, if ever, equal. If I spend one phase to grab the object so I can attack in the second for 13d6, perhaps two attacks for 12d6 each would have been more effective.[/quote']Why end there? If you go four phases, you can have: obtain, 13d6AoE, 13d6AoE, 13d6AoE, or 12d6, 12d6, 12d6, 12d6. If you're fighting granny, the extra 1d6 doesn't matter. A rationale deduction would state that if a PC can do 12d6, but chooses to spend one extra phase to do 13d6, then they're facing a tougher opponent or opponents where that extra d6 (or AoE) will be more useful. (And we can "assume" that an extra phase is worthwhile considering that's an already written limitation for Extra Time.)

 

On the flip side, how many PCs look at a bus and say "with my strength I can only do 1d6 extra with that"? Unless the PC has Skill associated with bus combat, he shouldn't know the pluses and minuses ahead of time. Not all buses and automobiles are created equally.

If I have a 13- to hit for 12d6' date=' and that bus will drop me down to 9- to hit for 13d6, 12d6 is looking pretty good. Of course, that preference could also be changed by my opponent's defenses.[/quote']Ah, the infinite "what if" scenario. What if you have three opponents in range of said bus? What if you have 10? A 13d6AoE is looking a lot more impressive. What if I have half a car on my off-hand already? It's like sword and shield time, just bulkier.

Let's not forget that I could also have Haymaker'd (extra segment + DCV penalty) to add 4d6. Would you rather do 12d6 or 16d6? And you Haymaker how often?

My personal haymaker ratio is irrelevant, especially considered that I haven't HERO'd any dice in 4+ years. I could easily use an old roommate of mine as an example. He used to haymaker at least once per combat. (We called him an idiot savant because he had seemingly perfect timing to succeed at the nigh-impossible.) His brick character was having a difficult time hitting Green Dragon in a fight once. Green Dragon was mocking him. My roommate opted for a Haymaker. Green Dragon saw it coming and opted to Dodge. My roommate needed a 3 to hit. He hit and KO'd Green Dragon.

It's pretty hit & miss in the comics whether the target of that attack' date=' who nimbly avoids it, has been appreciably slowed in doing so. Seems to me guys like Spider-Man and the Beast often leap onto that huge object hurled at them (avoiding any damage), then launch themselves off the object to counterattack. Seems like one phase to dodge/dive for cover and a second to attack weren't required.[/quote']

You're changing subjects again to either make or "win" your point. The rest of your paragraph was about game mechanics here, so why you're now back to talking about how it works in a comic is strange, especially when you were asking about why would the Hulk and Thing do this to hit each other and then respond that Spiderman latches on. For comics/cartoons/movies, it's what the author wants to happen. Logic need not apply.

 

If we're going back to game mechanics, there are always multiple possibilities. We've already discussed AoE and potential OCV bonuses, but if John Doe's brick uses a bus to smash Master Evil (working on his doctorate, I swear!), maybe he's also thinking that M. Evil will have to use a full phase to get the bus off of him; he can't rightly roll to his feet with Breakfall while a bus is on him.

 

Back onto topic: A rule I didn't know until 5E (I don't have any 6E) is that Find Weakness is susceptible to range modifiers and cannot be used with auto-fire.

Re: Rules You Didn't Know Until Champions Complete

Would that motivate a player to take this action? If not' date=' why should it motivate anyone else? It happens too universally to be a character or two valuing "cool" over "effective", especially when its use increases in the toughest fights.[/quote']Well, you're quoting a response where you asked about Hulk and the Thing, so it's not about players, it's about comic books and cartoons and movies where the author gets to decide why. As for players, I've gamed with a guy whose character was a clown-themed martial artist. In one plot's climax, he was face to face with the villain who had captured his parents and held them hostage. When he got to do his first attack, he declined to use any of his weapons or martial arts and instead chose 3d6 Strength attack to the face. :shrug:

This is the more logical aspect - there must be some reason' date=' mechanically, to do this. It can't logically be range - they're already fighting HTH. It doesn't seem like it improves the odds of hitting - they're having no difficulty hitting with their fists. They are, however, having a tough time taking the target down, so doing more damage seems the most likely reason.[/quote']This was talking about using sticks and baseball bats in a fight. Do you honestly think if anyone is fighting for their life and they have a choice between their fists and/or baseball bats that they aren't going to choose a baseball bat? That's like saying "No, I'm going to fight this knight with my hands, because why use a sword/mace/dagger at this range?"

Here we get to the limitations of using the object as a weapon. With the damage bonus being available only if the object's combined DEF + BOD exceeds your STR DC's' date=' a large tree has 5 PD + 11 BOD = 18. A 75+ STR attacker will gain no damage bonus from using a tree (STR over 80 loses damage). How strong must an attacker be to be a credible foe for Superman? If he has, say, a 60 STR, so he could get a 3d6 damage bonus from a large tree, maybe it's worth the phase it would take to grab and uproot it before attacking. Is it worthwhile for a 1d6 bonus?[/quote']Would you rather do 12d6 or 13d6?

Except that the agile opponents tend to avoid those big objects....

Not if they've already attacked that phase.

Re: Rules You Didn't Know Until Champions Complete

But that still doesn't explaoin why the Hulk and the Thing' date=' pounding it out toe to toe, smash each other with large objects rather than just pummelling with their fists.[/quote']

So they don't scrape their knuckles.

 

On a more "serious" note, there are two reasons:

1) Dramatic effect. It looks cool/awesome/superhuman/et cetera to use a large object (tree, street light, automobile) When you make the comic or cartoon, you get to choose. You aren't required to explain it. There's a psychological effect of using something that would destroy us mere mortals (automobile) if hit by it and yet the recipient survives. Besides, if the competition is doing it, you need to do it too or do it better.

 

2) Somewhere there's a bonus. Why hit someone with a stick when you can use your fists? Longer reach, perhaps, or maybe the extra oomph. The speed of the far end of the stick is greater than the speed at the near part of the stick (where your hand is), thus there's more force. If you swing a baseball bat using both hands, you're giving up some leverage (DCV, use of both hands) for a solid whack.

 

But then when you think about it...

 

What good is hitting Superman with a tree when missiles don't hurt him? "Logically," this shouldn't, but comic after comic and cartoon after cartoon show us that he keeps getting knocked down (but he gets up again; you're never gonna keep him down).

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

6E1' date=' Page 224, description of the Extra Limbs Power, right hand side of the page.[/quote']

5th R p173

Fifth Edition, p.112.

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

To answer the root question: I have a few house rules, depending on setting

 

My biggest house rule tends to be that I do not use everyman skills. Each character gets an extra 25 points, and there is a list of skills I highly recomend that they take. Multiform/duplication/followers/etc...get an additional 25 build points for free. This allows for a bit of custimization of the "everyman" skills, and gives characters a small bonus in points for being good at everyman type skills

 

For my street level champions game I also have merged Followers/Vehicles/Bases into one ability, this has ramifications for the use of the +5/x2 rule. It was to encourage the Batman type of character.

My personal preference is to develop my character in-game, so this helped me learn a different method.

Re: Conspiracy Theory: Who was really behind the destruction of Detroit?

Steve Long?

Has anyone nominated Foxbat yet?

Dude' date=' most of the serious answers you are going to get have already been given up thread. The stupid jokes have kept the thread going long enough for you to get a few more serious answers, otherwise it would have sank down page and disappeared by now.[/quote']"The stupid jokes" keeping the thread "up" are off-topic. Considering there are threads which last response is nearly two weeks old, the "sank down" thought is irrelevant.

 

From HERO Games Discussion Boards FAQ

Rule One: Respect Others.

 

I've asked and implied multiple times to please stay on-topic and stop the disrespectful posts. Please create your own thread or find an appropriate one for the jokes. Thank you.

Re: Champions Villains Volume 4: Fan Favourites

Piecekeeper, the man that can pull off your body part and attach it to his own body.

 

...Is the Piecekeeper responsible, even though he's never been known as the slasher type?

 

...Oh, no, not the ability to have more than two arms at once?

 

...Has Piecekeeper found a way to attaach dead body parts, letting his natural regenerative powers give the head life again, at least long enough for him to gain access to all those memories?

Am I missing something here? You describe Piecekeeper [i like the idea, by the way] as being able to "pull of your body part and attach it to his own," but the adventures seem to suggest that him doing so is unheard of. Does he just imitate by touch? My image was he'd take off an arm and attach it to himself (either absorbing it into his own arm) or have more than two arms after his first strength boost.

Re: Conspiracy Theory: Who was really behind the destruction of Detroit?

Can't always control thread digressions' date=' Kirby. And a little levity is sometimes a nice change of pace. But it probably is going a bit overboard now.[/quote']Agreed. I feel the pain/annoyance you must have felt when we kept resurrecting your Destroyer/Takofanes thread. Belated apologies if I didn't apologize for it before.

 

OTOH I think Boll Weevil's suggestion of Sennacherib is a valid option. That AI runs all of Destroyer's automated facilities' date=' and according to official history Mechanon did try to hack into and "liberate" it from the Doctor's control in 1990. Lingering infection that progressed over time isn't a stretch.[/quote']I agree. And I didn't realize I had accidentally clumped him in with the others; it's been edited, now.

Re: Conspiracy Theory: Who was really behind the destruction of Detroit?

I ate too many beans on vacation.......sorry.

I think it was Cassandra and all these ideas she's throwing out is just for misdirection.

Dorothy?

You don't think that tornado just happened on its own' date=' do you?[/quote']

Would you all please quit? I would appreciate it if you would cease being disrespectful.

Re: Conspiracy Theory: Who was really behind the destruction of Detroit?

Dorothy. Her next target is Chicago.

 

Two down, one to go.

Please, stop.

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

Back on the actual topic:

Anyone have a problem with or use a house rule about VPPs? They can tend to be very abusive in many players' hands. I had a GM allow me to use it once, but I had to have any powers I wanted to use written down before the gaming session (which was fine for me). Any ideas for powers that came up during that session couldn't be used until the next session (and with GM's approval, of course).

Re: Duplication Hijinks

I'm not sure how Duplication has changed in 6E, but for a 5E version, you can use the +1/2 Ranged Duplication (along with Easy Recombination), allowing your characters to recombine from a distance. The "dead body" could be a special effect, but you might be required to purchase Simulate Death and/or maybe a small Transform with a Trigger.

By rule, there must be a base form. This is the one that actually gains XP. This is a game mechanic, not a special effect, that you're looking for. Something to consider is to purchase Duplication twice. One form of duplication is built on full character points. The other is built on full character points minus the full cp Duplication. This allows the Duplicates to create Duplicates themselves. It also allows the main body to create twice as many, but half of them won't have the Duplication ability.

Another option is to purchase Duplication twice, both for full character points required, but put a limitation on one (or both, depending on GM's feelings) that states "cannot create more than n Duplicates total," if you (or the GM) want to have a set number. For example:

Duplicationx4

Duplicationx4 (no more than 4 Duplicates present at one time -x)

Thus, the main guy can create four OR the main guy can create one, the second guy can create one and the third guy can create one and you're finished. Or, the main guy creates one, the second guy creates two and you're finished.

As for the extra-time limitation, you could include the Gestures limitation as well, showing he has to eat throughout.

Re: Quote of the Week from my gaming group...

So the other day I was carrying in a copy of THE ULTIMATE BRICK and

my wife asked me if that was such a great idea.

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

It is not actually ambiguous in their setting I would imagine. In their group lexicon "CON Stunned" would probably be defined as something akin to "Momentarily disoriented by the amount of damage taken by an attack". The fact that it likely originated from HERO system is irrelevant. In their group it is understood what it is meant and calling it CON Stunned could easily help to distinguish it from other uses of the word Stunned that come up in gaming (such as being Stunned from a Sci-Fi Stunner type weapon' date=' or as mentioned the "momentarily taken aback" definition alluded to in the "You're stunned to see your dead father alive" example.) In their particular group it has simply evolved into a term that adequately expresses a specific definition that exceeds the boundaries of its literal definition and so, at least among them, has seen extended use.[/quote']You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to psyber624 again.

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

It just seems really weird that a term specifically coined to avoid ambiguity would then be intentionally made ambiguous itself by applying it to other things for no apparent reason.

What's illogical to me is people's obsession with a gaming group's jargon on a thread about House Rules. But hey, we all have our quirks.

YMMV.

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

Why does it matter to you?

Probably the same reason we tended to use Dazed instead of Stunned. It works well using a unifying term when playing a dozen different RPGs. However, with the particular phrase mentioned, it's differentiating between a stun used as an attack (stun gun, tasers, etc.), stunned from a presence attack (or viewing a scene, "You're stunned to see your dead father alive!"), or Stunned because you took more Stun than you had CON.

I'm not sure why this confusing, much less why it would matter what terminology I used in gaming sessions that never affected your life.

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

So you are saying you use the term "CON Stunned" when playing games other than Hero/Champions?

PS: When your gaming group might be playing Star Wars or Star Trek one day and then Champions the next, sometimes you need to know clarify what Stunned means. Just like some people need to know that "your left" means "your other left" or "your military left."