Kirby

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

From context I assumed Rules As Written.

Ah' date=' well, that makes much more sense that the [i']Rules And[/i]... I was trying to complete.

Rules As Written

Rules As Written. It has nothing to do with 6E specifically; it's a generally-used acronym in the RPG community.

Phooey! It wasn't "generally-used" here four years ago. (Well, at least, I hope not, cursed memory.)

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

When you look over the different editions of HERO starting with 4E' date=' you start to appreciate how much subjective opinion influences the RAW.[/quote']What's RAW stand for? I presume it has been introduced with 6E?

Re: Recommendations and Reviews of Superhero products both old and new

 

Ack! I forgot to include these:

 

San Angelo: City of Heroes

Enemies of San Angelo

Denizens of San Angelo

(The Dragon's Gate: San Angelo's Chinatown)

 

The first three are great if you want to start an Astro City-like campaign or a fresh campaign without aliens and keep a lot based on the story of the characters. What I really like about the Enemies book is that each enemy entry had an NPC normal that accompanied them, such as a villain's wife who thinks he's dead to a law enforcement agent who's been affected by the villain's crime or hunting them. Denizens contains fleshed out NPCs ripe for interaction and The Dragon's gate was a source book with plot seeds. I think it's a shame San Angelo didn't succeed more.

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

I have been teaching new players for decades. I have never met anyone who had a problem distinguishing being Stunned from Being Knocked out. Esp when the terms are used in a consistent manner.

I'm sorry if it upsets you that I don't have the experience of your near-perfect game-teaching. To compensate, I don't have your experience of your "house rules are more broken / caught up in their own cleverness/ house rules cause problems," so I suppose it balances out.

 

EDIT: Not intending this to sound snarky, just trying to point out that different people have different methods from their different perspectives and experiences.

I used to have extensive houserules for every game system I played. Eventually I came to see that most houserules are more broken than the "broken" rules they were designed to fix. Mostly because most people who houserule something have no idea why the RAW was crafted the way it was in the first place. Also they tend to be too caught up in their own cleverness to recognize any holes and exploits in their House rule. Many times houserules cause problems with players and are rarely brought to a group for a vote. Mostly they are shoved down the throats of players, no matter how those players might feel about such houserules.

 

Also, most house rules seem to always make something that's very simple and understandable into something that is completely complex and hard to understand.

You seem to have trouble understanding how someone doesn't understand the terminology used, yet have trouble with house rules, which I would think would be a clear sign that there's more than one way to learn.

 

YMMV

 

PS:

I have never met anyone who had a problem distinguishing being Stunned from Being Knocked out. Esp when the terms are used in a consistent manner.

I agree completely. In fact the team kind of bugs me as the Rules are so clear and have always been clear on the difference between being KOed and Being Stunned.

I don't think anyone here has talked about the difference between being KO'd and being Stunned, which might be why this is upsetting you.

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

Just as an aside' date=' HERO doesn't refer to anything as "CON Stunned," and it never has, in any edition of the rules. I've known countless people who use this term, but have always been a bit puzzled at how it got so widespread, considering that it doesn't appear anywhere in the rules... Anyone know? [/quote']

Because an effective hit that exceeds CON is stunned.

What Greywind stated. It is also helpful for new players learning the HERO system (when Stun, Stun Drain, and Stunned come into play).

 

Dazed is a term my old face-to-face group incorporated so long ago that I don't recall if its origin appeared during Champions or another game system.

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

• A 'to hit' roll of 3 will always succeed, and as long as a 3 or less wasn't needed, it will do maximum damage. A 'to hit' or skill roll of 18 will always miss or fail, and will generally be harmful, if not embarrassing.
  

3 and 18 are always success and failure by RAW' date=' and max damage is a common critical hit option so I wouldn't call that a "house rule". Same with using options listed in the book for luck.[/quote']Naturally, you don't have to; however, I do and will. The max damage option/rule is not listed in FREd or BBB, so while it may be common for players, it's not an official rule, making it a house rule (and can help when explaining to new players). Additionally, on the failure (18), you didn't mention the part of "will generally be harmful, if not embarrassing." This is the standard I use instead of official options such as 1/2 DCV.

 

As for Luck, unless player preferred, I eliminate the "[e]ach '6' rolled counts as 1 point of Luck" actual rule. It also shows that I won't be including the dice re-rolling method.

 

 

Ockham's Spoon brought up something that I tend to use as an unwritten GM rule: Mooks being 1-2 hit NPCs, although it tends to depend on the scene. If the scene is about the "mook" interaction, then I might concern myself with their actual Stun; however, if they're fodder for a larger event, then I let them fall. I also tend to have them KO'd if they're Dazed/CON Stunned/Stunned.

 

Naturally, what's good for the PCs is good for the NPCs.

 

PS: As a few have stated here, my house rules also tend to be rules that are grandfathered in from 4E to 5E.

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

"Meh" to those who claim house rules are cumbersome and broken. That sounds more like a bad experience than a trend. House rules I've used in campaigns before include the following:

 

• A 'to hit' roll of 3 will always succeed, and as long as a 3 or less wasn't needed, it will do maximum damage. A 'to hit' or skill roll of 18 will always miss or fail, and will generally be harmful, if not embarrassing.
  
• DAZED: What HERO refers to as CON Stunned, I refer to as dazed. When Dazed, you must spend your next phase recovering from it, if you are both Dazed and knocked below 0 Stun, you must spend your next available phase recovering from it, then your following available phase taking a REC until you are in the positives. (Note: This is the 4E version.) Side: If brought to 0 Stun exactly, you must make a CON roll. Success you can still act, failure means you must take a REC and are treated as if in negative Stun.
  
• DENSITY INCREASE, GROWTH, and SHRINKING: If you want these to be considered 'permanently' on, you may buy them as 0 END, Persistent, Always On. Consider purchasing Inherent as well.
  
• FIND WEAKNESS/LACK OF WEAKNESS: I don't see the need to make you spend extra points defining Normal/Resistant attacks/defenses on these. So, if you have FW: Standard Defenses, it applies to both normal and killing attacks. Just as a Lack of Weakness for Mental Defense would apply to normal Mental attacks and Killing Mental attacks.
  
• FLASH: I treat flashes a little differently, but somewhat more forgiving/realistic, IMHO. The Body/Flash is rolled normally, but the 'total' is now the minus the affected character is at PER rolls and OCV. The victim of the flash will recover one point for each of his/her phases. So a flash of 5 will put the target at -5 on say Seg. 2. If the target is a 5 Speed, he/she will be at -5 on phase 3, -4 on phase 5, -3 on phase 8, and so forth.
  
• LUCK/UNLUCK: While allowing good things to happen to the PC with the Points of Luck on the Luck Table I tend to use the first three options under Other Ways Of Using Luck (FREd, p. 128) depending on how the player prefers. For Unluck, while I use the Levels table (p. 222), I also treat it as the opposite of the benefits of Luck.
  
• RAPID FIRE/SWEEP: This is allowed, but only for up to three shots total, and not on the same character.
  
• PULLED PUNCH: If you want to pull a punch, it is just a -1 OCV, regardless of STR or Damage Class being pulled.
  
• PUSHING: No EGO roll is necessary; however, you may only push each power once per turn.
  

While I've not had anyone play with Duplication in a game of mine, I doubt I would be as restrictive as FREd suggests with Altered Duplicates (+1/4 for 25% differential point spending, +1/2 for 50% and +1 for 100% variety) as that makes the cost punitive.

Re: How do you feel about House Rules?

 

I generally have no problems with house rules and have definitely instituted my own in campaigns that I've run.

Re: Conspiracy Theory: Who was really behind the destruction of Detroit?

 

James Harmon...

just not the one from this universe.

Very nice. I have often entertained the thought that whenever I do an extra-dimensional adventure, I use the 4th Ed Champions from BBB. I just have to decide whether that dimension is one that Lancer (CKC) is from and/or one that V'han has conquered or not. And what happens if it is one conquered by some earth master villain (Dr. Destroyer, Takofanes, Menton, etc.) and is also being invaded by by aliens or V'han?

Re: Recommendations and Reviews of Superhero products both old and new

 

The following are books that I like grouped into similar sections. First are my most preferred types: Short adventures that introduce new or stat up established characters (WotD is longer, but it's a gem).

 

Wrath of the Seven Horsemen

VOICE of Doom

The Zodiac Conspiracy

Target Hero (great Hunted story; drawbacks are the author's incessant comments and an underwater DEMON base)

To Serve and Protect

Mind Games

Day of the Destroyer (great for 4th Ed and before)

Watchers of the Dragon

 

 

The next are source books, which I prefer, especially when they include numerous characters! There are generally some short plots listed in the organization books as well.

 

Enemies: The International File

Enemies: Villainy Unbound

Enemies for Hire

Classic Enemies

The Olympians

Normals Unbound

Champions (4th & 5th)

Champions Universe (4th & 5th)

VIPER

Allies

The MUTANT File

Golden Age Champions

Champions Worldwide

Conquerors, Killers, and Crooks

DEMON: Servants of Darkness

Millennium City

VIPER: Coils of the Serpent

Teen Champions (enjoyable, despite numerous proofreading and some continuity problems)

 

The next ones I enjoy are books that provide multiple plot seeds that aren't too intricate nor too long (in case you don't like one, you can hop to another).

 

Challenges for Champions

Champions in 3-D

Villainy Amok (A must if you like books that give inspiration!)

 

I have many more books, but some wouldn't be initial recommendations.

Re: The Monster Age!

 

I have to admit that Australia doesn't seem like a prime target for the Nazi and Commie masterminds' date=' but it's likely that either of them could have secret island bases, and in any case Our Heroes are likely to encounter them no matter where they are carrying out their Nefarious Plans.[/quote']At the end of WW2, there was a German U-boat transporting some secret material to the Japanese that never reached its destination. While the cargo was most likely German technology and blueprints (V2's, jet engines, etc.), you could always modify the cargo to suit your campaign needs as well as how the Germans arrived.

Re: The Monster Age!

 

I have to admit that Australia doesn't seem like a prime target for the Nazi and Commie masterminds' date=' but it's likely that either of them could have secret island bases, and in any case Our Heroes are likely to encounter them no matter where they are carrying out their Nefarious Plans.[/quote']If you're going to RISK your armies on world domination, Australia is a safer place to start.

Re: Conspiracy Theory: Who was really behind the destruction of Detroit?

 

The cosmic entity called the Examiner' date=' from [i']Champions Beyond[/i], puts sapient beings of power (such as superhumans) through various physical, intellectual, and emotional trials, to study their responses. The Battle of Detroit and its aftermath provided plenty of all three.

I do like the Examiner. It might be a bit harsh; however, there's no reason fellow Galaxar, the Warlord, might have been involved. (On the flip side, if the GM ruled the Examiner did do it, then that makes the Warlord even scarier.)

 

The Men in Black' date=' a nameless and undocumented that is working for the Babylon Conspiracy Agency, a group in the City of Man who seeds conspiracy theories of all earths, just for the fun of it and as part of some vague scheme to control the multiverse that wouldn't possibly hold up to close scrutiny, but which produce many scenes of men smoking in big rooms sayng ominous and portentous things that make little sense whatsoever.[/quote']... I don't know how to respond, but my mouth is agape.

Re: Conspiracy Theory: Who was really behind the destruction of Detroit?

 

There actually was another master plan behind it' date=' which isn't what most on Champions Earth believe it to be... but it was Dr. Destroyer's plan. If you get [i']Book Of The Destroyer[/i] you'll find out.

 

(Personally I didn't like the plan for a few reasons, but it is official. I prefer some of your alternatives.)

 

Drats. :/

 

Like many a newborn, you've snipped me before I could really get started.

 

Not really. Just because something is in the official books doesn't mean you can't come up with your own take. Let the speculation continue.

Should I have the fortune of starting up a new (5E) campaign, I plan on using something "better" to explain how the students discovered Destroyer's base. It might involve more than one of the above, depending on whether the PCs are heroes or villains.

Re: Storn's Art & Characters thread.

 

I really like this one.

Re: Disintegration Setting on Retro Ray Gun

 

It's probably against the RAW' date=' but what about Dispel Body? If the total rolled on the dice bring the Body of the person/object down below zero, then the object is disintegrated.[/quote']An interesting approach, although for a living creature, the Body would technically have to be doubled for a kill.

 

While I wouldn't allow it in a multi-power, the GM might allow you to Summon something similar as the Nega-Beam (UNTIL Superpowers Database, pp. 261-2.)

Re: Rare Vs. Uncommon AVAD Defense

 

In addition, the same could be said for PCs going against criminal masses. Sure, Takofanes has a Force Field, but his 125 summoned undead probably won't. VIPER and DEMON grunts don't tend to have Force Fields, either. It isn't until you start chomping away at their food chain working up the ladder that you find those with the Force Fields.

 

YMMV

Re: Rare Vs. Uncommon AVAD Defense

 

Force fields are rare in Champions Universe? That would be slightly surprising.

Unless cooking' date=' rare is a term of relativity. A criminal in a Super-MegaBank using an NND attack where the defense is Force Field probably isn't going to encounter an obstacle. If it were versus Armor, then at least the security guards would stand a chance and [i']maybe[/i] 1-3% of the population present. It's not until the Champions show up where two of the five (Sapphire and Witchcraft; not Defender, Ironclad or Nighthawk) have Force Fields.

Re: Body and Stun Reserve

 

An extra layer/set of defenses bought with Ablative seems more appropriate for the Stun Reserve; or just more Stun.

 

If you are worried about a master villain being Con Stunned the first time he is hit, then maybe by him bonus Con (no figured characteristics) with a Trigger for when he's hit and a 1 charge limitation. Perhaps link it to bonus Stun (which wouldn't "recover" until the character in question has recovered all of their normal Stun first).

Re: Turn by Turn combat in PBEM games

 

In a PBEM, it might actually not be that bad. I would just add that you would need to give the actions of the NPCs as well to the players. Depending on how quickly your players respond, you might have the slowest NPCs and PCs listed first, then move up.

 

Example: For whatever reason combat begins. Your PCs have DEXes of 21, 24 and 30. NPCs are 15, 15, 15, 23 and 27. You list what the DEX 15s are going to do, then PC 21 tells you what he'll do. Then DEX 24 gets to respond to both of those as well as DEX 23 NPCs. Then you decide on 27 NPC and DEX 30 gets to respond.

 

Of course, in a PBEM, that may be more "paperwork" than you want to deal with.

Re: Going First

 

I don't remember what game it was (White Wolf, Star Wars [d6], L5R, or something else), but there was a rule on initiative where the slowest person announced their actions first. This way, the fastest person could respond to all those slower and the slowest didn't receive any bonuses. In a play-by-e-mail or play-by-post game, this wouldn't work so well with HERO; however, in a face-to-face game, you could work this for every two to three phases, maybe (announce actions for phases 1, 2 and 3, then roll them).

 

In a 1-on-1 scenario of two people with the same Speed and different DEXes, then the higher DEX person has a slight advantage. If both players are balanced with roughly the same defenses, attacks and combat values, (Say, 18 DEX & 19 DEX) then the higher DEX gets a chance to CON-STUN the slower player first. Should this happen, the slower person has to use his action to Recover. In a drag-down-fist-fight, the faster person has the upper hand by being able to knock out his opponent first. Generally speaking, a higher DEX person will have higher combat values (DEX 18 versus DEX 24), so that is an additional advantage.

 

Finally, the higher DEX person can also hold their action, waiting to see what the slower opponent does and then respond. Essentially, the higher DEX has the option of striking first, as well as the options of what the slower DEX person has.

 

YMMV.

Re: Conspiracy Theory: Who was really behind the destruction of Detroit?

 

LOVE the Foxbat take' date=' that was just hilarious.... did you come up with WoWSER on your own?[/quote']Thank you. I did; I couldn't think of anything to replace WoW, so I just extended it.

[unless otherwise noted, all NPCs can be found in Conquerors, Killers, and Crooks. AA = Arcane Adversaries; CU = Champions Universe; CW = Champions Worldwide, MC = Millennium City; EfH = Enemies for Hire (4th Ed)]

 

THE HUGE PLOT:

Mechassassin and Steel Commando (CU) both have plot seeds about working with each other and Lazer. Hazard (MC) might as well be added for completion. Taipan's (CW) main plot seed is escaping.

Plot event: For unknown reasons, the four super-mercenaries attack the Australian prison, then proceed to revive and release Taipan. All disappear without a trace.

 

Scorpia (Eurostar) has a plot seed where she discovers Mentalla's (Eurostar) mental manipulations and uses the PCs by leaking information to them about Mentalla that could lead to the PCs discovering Mentalla's secret ID and current location. Mentalla has a plot seed where she and Menton play a "wargame" using Millennium City to battle each other. (Mentalla also has a seed where she's subtly informing the PCs that Dr. Destroyer is about to begin another conquest; this might be a tie-in, perhaps Scorpia informing the PCs that Mentalla is providing the truthful clues.) Menton has a plot seed publicly helping Eurostar attack northern Italy.

 

Plot event: Menton and Mentalla begin having their wargame in Millennium City (or the PCs' city). Scorpia informs the PCs of Mentalla's activities piecemeal. OPTION: Mentalla discovers Destroyer is preparing to launch an assault from a location in northern Italy, informing the PCs. Menton decides to relocate their wargame to northern Italy. One way or another (conscious, attention-seeking, government influence, GM clue bat, etc.) the PCs go to Italy (either to stop Destroyer, Eurostar or both).

 

Big plot interdiction: Eurostar is making a "public appearance" causing mayhem and destruction (either searching for or fighting against Destroyer and troops or doing their own plan). [if fighting Destroyer, Eurostar should also have a plethora of grunts helping.] From out of "nowhere," Taipan shows up and fights/kills a member of Eurostar and will attempt to kill all of them. As members of Eurostar start to respond to Taipan's ambush, Hazard, Lazer, Mechassassin, and Steel Commando begin to attack Eurostar as well (competing with Taipan for the most kills). [if you like to overcomplicate things as I do, include Ack-Ack McCleary and Ronin (EfH). Ack-Ack would probably go after mooks or injured Eurostar members, Ronin would go after Mentalla.) Whom do the heroes "help" or whom do they go after to apprehend first?

 

Complications: Who paid to have Taipan released and for the group to attack Eurostar? Was it Dr. Destroyer? Menton? A wealthy NPC hero who feared Eurostar so much that he (anonymously) wanted them eliminated once and for all? VIPER [VIPER has their same-named sourcebook]? Mechassassin and Lazer both have plot seeds involving being hired by Holocaust; could this be it or a variation of it? Holocaust has a plot seed that begins with him and Gravitar having a brief affair. Later they break up, but what if part of their affair is to eliminate Eurostar? OPTIONAL: If including Destroyer, Gravitar incidently has a plot seed where she calls Destroyer a weakling and keeps defeating Destroyer's attacks. FURTHER OPTION: Destroyer has a plot seed of killing the PCs DNPC and other figures and replacing them with robot duplicates and begins to ruin their reputation. How badly do the PCs want revenge while this is happening?

 

Final cruelty: Menton and Ultrasonique (Eurostar) both have plot seeds involving their powers and other dimensions; Menton in particular contacting Istvatha V'han, while Ultrasonique for opening a gateway to another dimension. What if these have intrigued the Empress and she launches an experimental expiditionary attack from the dimension Ultrasonique opened and possibly a flanking maneuver from the dimension through which Menton contacted her?

 

 

NEW PLOT:

Hazard and Steel Commando both have seeds where they are each hired to kill a PC. Why not do this simultaneously? Is it the same PC? Do they compete or cooperate? Is it the same employer or different ones?

 

 

IMPEACHMENT PLOT:

Masquerade and Lazer both have White House related plots. Masquerade seems to be impersonating the president and a Lazer impersonator just assassinated the vice-president; Lazer wants to clear his "good name." Is Masquerade behind both? In addition, Mechassassin has a plot seed where someone is impersonating him, which could be combined, maybe an attempt by Masquerade (or its employer?) to eliminate them for some reason (mercenary rivalry?).

 

 

KILLER PLOT:

Thunderbird has three plots that could be used (wife looking for him, he's killed an NPC hero, PCs need to find the villain they know he's after). Witchfinder (AA) has one where supernatural evil creatures come begging the PCs for protection and will disavow their ways if the PCs stop Witchfinder. Thunderbird and Witchfinder are currently after the same mystical supervillian (even worse, they're working together). What if they're after Devil Dog (DEMON) and he has his plot seed "Where the heck am - OOOF!" take place?

Complication: Either a mystic PC or heroic mystic NPC (such as Witchcraft - Champions) have been wrongly accused of committing a crime and is currently hiding from authorities. The PCs need to hurry!

 

 

 

So, has anyone else combined plot seeds from multiple NPCs to create one story, or is this just me?

Re: Conspiracy Theory: Who was really behind the destruction of Detroit?

 

Drats. :/

 

Like many a newborn, you've snipped me before I could really get started.

We're all familiar with the official story of Detroit's destruction (not Darren Watts blowing it up, but Dr. Destroyer), but what if that was just a convenient, plausible explanation? Sure, Dr. Destroyer planned on destroying much of the United States and his super adversaries so that the world would have to accept his leadership to rebuild, and that the graduating students of Ravenswood Academy just happened to discover Destroyer's hideout, but what if there was another entity behind that scenes that influenced the students to stumble onto this master villain's base? Who or what was it and what was its/their plan?

 

Speculative thoughts:

 

DEMON - Who more evil than DEMON themselves? It's possible that DEMON (maybe even just a Morbane) was wanting to summon/command a being from the Descending Hierarchy, but needed a great sacrifice. DEMON knew where Destroyer was, but also knew they were too weak to confront him directly. Destroyer's current chaos was disrupting DEMON's plans (and ruining hideouts), so they subtly influenced the Ravenswood teens into discovering Destroyer's base. Were the 60,000 lost lives worth it, or does there need to be more? Either way, what was DEMON's reward? (This one is probably best to have the required amount almost met, so that the PCs can either prevent it, or fight the being or reverse the reward as part of the campaign.)

 

Mechanon - A cybernetic, the Machinist, made the initial discovery, but what he didn't know was that Mechanon was influencing him! Mechanon knew of Destroyer's plan to destroy North America via asteroids and projected Destroyer would succeed; however, Mechanon wanted Destroyer out of the picture as well. Permanently. Mechanon put the wheels in motion for the Machinist to check for "machine empathy" in the abandoned steel mill. When the fighting was all but over, Destroyer's orbital bombardment cannon was supposed to kill the heroes only and allow Destroyer to teleport away. It was Mechanon who adjusted the weapon's trajectory to include Destroyer. Did Destroyer eventually realize this or did he think there might have been a miscalculation or perhaps hero intervention? (There were supers in space, after all.)

 

Menton - Who knows Destroyer better than anyone else? Menton does. Menton had been subverting Destroyer's henchmen for years in able to keep tabs on his former master. Perhaps Menton had slowly and subtly bypassed Destroyer's mental defenses just enough for Menton to read Destroyer's surface thoughts and/or influence them? Did Menton suggest Destroyer was ready to attack before he truly was or once Destroyer's plan was in motion, did Menton simply dominate the teens' minds to go to the field and discover Destroyer there? And after all, with a fatigued and weakened populace left over, Menton would have a much easier taking controlling new puppets for his personal use.

 

PSI - Similar to Menton's participation, but PSI couldn't influence Destroyer, only his followers. Unable to confront Destroyer directly, PSI encouraged the students to find Destroyer's place. As with Menton, with a new city being built and the controlled chaos of filling the political power vacuum, PSI could establish some powerful roots.

 

Takofanes - Similar to Mechanon, Takofanes didn't mind North America being destroyed nor Destroyer. How Takofanes managed to discover where Destroyer was (ghosts?) and influence the teens (vampires?) might not be set in stone, but Takofanes would definitely have hoped for some *super* powerful dead bodies. Takofanes may not have understood Destroyer's part in sending asteroids to Earth and moved too soon. He may have simply thought Destroyer was doing random violence but the lich lord wanted a mass area of corpses and Detroit seemed well enough. The sixty thousand dead was as close to pure joy as the undead abomination had felt in centuries.

 

Telios - How does one populate the planet with thousands upon thousands of clones without anyone noticing? Kill a city and replace the populace. Perhaps thousands of the new Lennies are clones, including many of the "new" supers (both heroes and villains!) that are now both loved and hated. Just what purpose is there to this? Is this Telios's idea, or did someone (even Destroyer) hire him for this? As for the Ravenswood teens, did Telios capture them and send in clone replacements, or is the majority or entirety of Ravenswood Academy a living lab of Telios'?

 

VIPER - No one not only interferes with and annoys VIPER as much as Destroyer, but is such a threat that VIPER cannot directly assault without severe casualties. For a long time, VIPER knew of Destroyer's many bases, but never dared an assault. When VIPER discovered what was truly happening, they sent a sabotage crew to interfere with Destroyer's plans and leave a beacon for other supers to "stumble" onto Destroyer's base. With the Machinist only able to detect machine minds, he felt the murderous intentions of the Destroids, but didn't realize they had recently killed a VIPER team. The dead bodies were overlooked in all the chaos and obliterated later by Destroyer's orbital bombardment cannon.

Foxbat - Every MASTER PLAN has a mastermind who avoids being noticed by authorities. Foxbat didn't want to keep paying for high electricity bills and have some super in his/her secret ID at the electric company discover Foxbat's secret hideout, so Foxbat needed to tap someone else's electrical lines. Imagine his wonderment when this abandoned steel mill not only had enough FREE electricity (to him, it apparently hadn't been turned off) for his latest endeavor, but there were powerful computers present with amazing software that let him hack into and play his favorite MMORPG (World of Women Seeking Everlasting Romance, or WoWSER) for free as well! During a rare escape from the keyboard (one gets tired of waiting at the virtual club for his wing man, MorganFairchilds FutureHusband), Foxbat noticed four teenagers nearby. Fearing he'd been discovered, Foxbat fled, but not before accidentally turning on some equipment which started flickering and warranted the Machinist's attention. Foxbat now is feeling extreme guilt for 'causing' the destruction of Detroit and seeks redemption from the PCs. If someone coaxes him out of his depression (he's wearing an all-black outfit now), he will become Foxbat's newest BFF or she will become his latest, greatest love interest and Foxbat can "hang out" with them for weeks if not months if not years!