The Hyborian

Re: Equipment Pools?

A Navy Seal is a normal human worth about 4-500 points easy.

Wow.

Unless everyone in the SEALs has Genius level intellegence, the body of the greatest athleat in human history, and dozens of areas of skill foucs brought to up to world class mastery, no they dont cost that much.

Your "normals" are spending more on their stats than some supers do. Saying all but one are under 200 points in characteristics is like saying your car only goes 180mph. The point totals for the power frameworks that you are listing are staggering. A 5 speed is better than Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee smashed together into one little butt kicking body. By definition it is superhuman. Either you have the least effective character builds EVER, or you guys are playing cosmic level supers without knowing it. Im not sure Conan would cost 700 points, even you built the entire Army of Aquilonia as followers.

Now, Im not getting down on anything here. Your campaign is your campaign. If it works for you its none of my buisness. But these kind of numbers boggle the mind. Personally, I would make them pay for the gear out of points. If a 700 point fighter needs another 100 points in magic items to make it through the day, well, I cant image what they are going up agaist. Unless they are killing alien gods and knocking off ancient dragons 12 at a time, this seems a little over the top.

Just my $.02. Ignore at will.

Re: Martial Balance

I've got two martial artists appearing in my campaign and Im having trouble balancing the two out.

 

The game is set on 200 + 100, with an APPROX. AP cap on powers of 60...ish.

 

Now, one characters is more of a shadow-magician character, with martial artist abilities....And she took a +12d6 HA (a shadow punch, if you will) that will add with her MA and her STR.... (so 12d6 + 2 to 4d6 + 3d6 str = 17d6 to 19d6)

 

The other MA doesnt look like he's going to take an additional HA, but rely on some chi based abilities...he does, however, have his stats a bit higher overall.

 

I dont see him doing nearly as much damage as the others....

 

The blaster in the group relys on 14d6 normal attacks (70AP) while a punisher/Capt A like character is bouncing around 6-8d6 double knockback powers (energy bullets from his Tech)

 

I know Im missing some basic balance issues here, but how do the rest of you deal with MA, HTHA, and such when looking at campagin power continuity..?

 

We're still in character creation process and I know the player wont mind at all when I tone down the HA, but Im just looking for a better way to judge balance and such....

I agree with the others that sometimes you have to put a hard cap on damage. Otherwise some is going to create a silly min/max build that is out of balance. While a 12d6 HA may be 60 active points, its unbalanced once you add strength and marital arts maneuvers. I would tell your shadow magician to cut back on the Hand Attack so his total attack in in the 12-14d6 Range, which seems to be the upper end for the campaign.

I will also say that there is a downside to damage caps. If the hard cap is 12d6 normal damage or 60 Active points in powers, then everyone toes the line with a 12d6 attack. Its not that hard to come up with 60 points of offence in a 300 point character. It cuts down on variability. A possible solution is to try to enforce a bit a of good character design. You could set some minimums like at least 40 points in non combat skills. Also set defense and CV limits, and be sure to make them all high enough that characters cant afford to max them all out. If you hit the max in offense, you wont have the points to max out CV or defenses, etc. IN fact, 60 is a fairly low Active point cap. You might pull back to 275 or 250 point characters if you want that to be the maximum attack level. That way the characters who go the the red line in on offence will have to make a genuine sacrifice somewere else.

I would also suggest that your gun character find a way to up his offense a little bit. The extra knockback does not compensate for being 6-8d6 behind the blaster in dammage output. Unless he has some other attacks or utility powers he is going to feel cheated when you get into play.

Re: Trying to make an attack that forces dex roll

The only thing I don't like about reducing movement directly is that anyone with even 1" or more of the movement just moves slower over it' date=' and that doesn't seem to be in line with the SFX. Shouldn't those speedsters have to make a DEX Roll to move at all? Just slowing down to a speed that could still be three times as fast as a normal shouldn't keep them up and running.[/quote']

 

Another option that comes to mind would be an area affect entangle bought with trigger. The trigger is laying out the marbles and having someone enter the area. The Fx would be the triggering character doing a Chevy Chase breakfall routine in the marbles until they had done enough dammage to the entangle to scatter them. I wont try to build this one exactly, as there are nearly two pages of adders, advantages, and limitations for Entangle, and my brain power is feeling a little taxed about now. I am sure some rules lawyer out there should be able to write it up the correct version. You would, of course, keep the Dex roll at -2 Negates Limited Power limitations.

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence

How much of a DEX Drain would be appropriate in your opinion? Not all of a persons DEX is granted by their sense of balance. I'd say fairly little of it is, in fact. So you might need to apply a limitation to indicate a maximum effect for the Drain, i.e. Non-Cumulative. In addition, and alien or robot that doesn't have a sense of balance would still be effected by the DEX Drain, as would a character who had spent points specifically to protect his sense of balance. The defense in this case would be Power Defense.

 

I suppose the questions of how much drain depends on how intese the effect is, and if it is accompanied by nausia, disphoria, etc. I have seen people with migranes get knocked down so hard they literally couldn't stand up. Does your attack make them a little woozy or does it make them beg for an early death?

I agree that the alien/robot/nonhuman issue needs to be considered. If robots and aliens are common in the campaign you probably need a Limited Power limitation on the attack. If they are rare, probably not, it would fall under minor advantages and disadvantages that come will all special effects.

Re: How to do Split personality

I have a player that wishes to play a person with multiple personality disorder' date=' where each personality would have different skills. Not different powers just different skill sets for each personality. What would be the best way to do this? Multiform? Duplication, or a strange multipower thing?[/quote']

 

 

I would use a Multiform, and look at Accidental Change if the character could not always control which personality came forward. Each personality could have their own skills, their own disadvantages, perhaps even slightly different stats. Persoanlity A might be weaker willed than the others, with a lower Ego. Personality B might be physically timid, giving an effectivly lower Dex because of reluctance to act quickly, etc. If the character had no control at all over which personality came forward then I would buy the Mulitform cost with No Conscious Control, and the GM would determine which personality was in control at any given time.

Re: Flash: Inner ear/ Sense of Gravity/ Sense of Balence

My $.02 on the issue.

I think that we are confusing sense with awarness. I am with the camp that says for game purposes senses are abilites a character uses to perceive the envrionment around them. Flash disables one of these abilites, the classic being the bright light in the eyes, but it could be any Fx and any of the five senses.

A charcter is also aware of things within themselves, but these are not really "senses" in game terms. Hunger, fatigue, balance, orientation in space, even emotional state are all tied to certain activity in our nervious system, and feed into our cognitive processes, but are not senses the way we mean when we are speaking in game terms.

Perhaps the following could serve as a definition: Unless you could pay the points to make it a targeting sense, its not really a sense in game terms. I dont think you could have "Targeting Balance", (or targeting hunger, targeting need to pee, etc) so they are not senses, they are states of awareness.

So, IMHO, I would not let a charcter flash "Balance". They could drain dex with the Fx that they have messed with the persons balance, they could drain stun or use a NND of some kind to represent the crippling nausia. But "Balance" can not be directly turned off via flash.

Re: Question about "DANGER SENSE DODGING"

Well' date=' I'm trying to get away from the attachment to opinion that these kind of debates can incur. I've been bad about these things sometimes, and I still need to work on it. Part of me sees no sense to debate something if it's just an opinion, while at the same time seeing some intellectual stimulation in it. [/quote']

 

Well, there truely isn't a GOOD reason for it, but it can be fun. I hope I did not become strident to the point it offended you personally.

 

Only 500 for a "clerics are overpowered thread"? I'd expect a lot more. Try "does shape change change hp" or anything with Haste. Or how magic has been broken in the new version.

]

 

We forgot "Are Druids the New Clerics (overpowered)" and "A level 20 Wizard and a level 20 cleric are having a duel. . . . ."

Re: Trying to make an attack that forces dex roll

Ok, this is with 5th edition, Nonrevised, so FRed owners feel free to call BS as needed.

Change Environment, Marbles on the Floor, 2 hex radius, -10 inches running (30 points, see chart pg 90) 45 Active Points. Limited Power: Dex check at -2 Negates Effect (-1/2) OAF:Bag of Marbles (-1) 1 Recoverable Continuing Charge Lasting up to 20 min (-0). Real Cost 18 pts.

The character carries a bag of marbles that can be dumped on the ground. Any entering the area affect find it very hard to walk or run unless they make a Dex check at -2. The power effect lasts up to 20 minutes, after that its assumed that he marbles have been dispersed to the point that they are no longer effective. The Continuing charge can be ended by spending time to clear the marbles out of the way. The charge is recoverable if character spends time after combat to gather them up again.

Re: Question about "DANGER SENSE DODGING"

Not as bad as some D&D players arguing for 24 pages of posts over one word in the rules, but the same basics. Probably why I should stay away from these boards

Ok, I will adimit that on another forum I once started a "DnD Clerics are overpowerer" thread that went more than five hundred posts. But debate and vigorous argument are the fun part. What did Al Gore invent the internet for, if not to grouse about complete strangers? Its like politics, you champion your case and dont take it personal. No need to stay away from the boards.

Re: Question about "DANGER SENSE DODGING"

If you want to argue, consider the table on page 247 in FRED ("Target a hex, must hit hex's DVC (3; 0 if adjacent)"). Or -

 

Fred, pg 248: "Area of Effect Attacks may be made at either a hex or at a target's normal DCV. Generally, it's easier to hit the hex the target is standing in, because the DCV of a hex is 3, or 0 if the hex is adjacent."

OK, I mean that a hex does not have a DCV the way that a character has a DCV. There is a standard DCV to hit a specific 2 meter wide area. But that is not the same thing as being a character. Can you use aid on a hex? Does it have a speed? Can you stun it? Can you effect it with an ego attack? Even if you use the phrase "Area Affect" in place of "Usable by others" (which i think would be more on target), there is still nothing to effect. The usable by others rules specifcally say that they let a character use the power. A hex is not a charcter. It doesn't start to dodge around and evade attacks. Its always a hex.

If, as you say, the DCV of a hex (which it doesn't have despite its inclusion in the book I have. Publishing error?) is just a standard of how hard it is to hit a location, then what is it for people? Isn't it a standard of how hard it is to hit somebody? If not, what is it?

For charcters DCV is a measure of ability to defend oneself. Unless you could give me a special effect where the 2 meter region of space I was targeting with my area affect was defending itself, by say moving around or blocking my attack, I dont think I buy the idea that the hex should have a higher DCV. It just sits their being a region of space for me to shoot at.

To make character A miss a hex character B has to do something to character A. That could be a number of things, from a dex drain to a change envrionment with a CV penalty, to images to make them aim at a false target, to a perception penalty through Darkness, or something on those lines. The hex remains just the hex. You have to do something to the shooter to make them less able to hit it.

Ok, so I can hear you thinking, "what if I'm playing Captian Euclid,and I warp space to make the hex harder to hit". Well, thats Change Environment, "Warp Space", with penalties to OCV, and the charcter with the power would be affected as well unless they bought the personal immunity advantage. You have changed the nature of space in the region to make attacks more difficult to target, but the hex is still DCV 3. I would think most of these types of powers would be through change environment, or in the case of the "speedster dodge", images to make targeting harder.

If you can't wrap your head around the idea behind the usage, then don't allow it. If you can accept it, then use it. What's so hard about that

Nothing is so hard about that, but I have yet to hear a Fx jusutification at would support giving a Hex higher DCV.

Re: Rifts HERO

I always like the Rifts setting, but I thought he rules were horribly broken and utterly unbalanced. Observe the following first game session.

Player A: I want to play a GlitterBoy.

Player B: I want to play a Full Cyborg

Player C: I want to play a wilderness scout.

Any attack that would even slightly dammage player A or B's character would instakill one-hit-dead player C's character. What goon wrote this thing? Ever heard of "game balance" Its a bit like saying, ok, you build your Hero charcter with 1000 points, you build yours with 125, and I will come up with an encounter that will challenge you both.

Riiiiighhhht.

My advice: Dump megadammage. Its just a really, really big attack. Decide going in if you are going to play the big nasty combat monsters, or the more noncombat characters, and dont try to mix and match. You are in for misery if you do.

The Hyborian

Re: Question about "DANGER SENSE DODGING"

Why not? You can put Limitations and Advantages on 5pt DCV levels. Making it One Hex Area Effect makes it affect the hex you're standing in.

 

Let's say you have Joe Champion at DCV 6, he buys +3 DCV, Area Effect One Hex. So he personally has DCV 9, the Hex he is standing in is DCV 6. Admittedly, it works best for Distortion Fields (read, Eldar Holo Fields).

 

I suppose if you want to simulate the dodgey bit more, you could say something like One Hex Inaccurate (the oposite of One Hex Accurate). So those targetting the hero's hex would have a higher chance of missing the hero but still nailing everything else in the hex.

See my above rants for more details, but in short:

Area Affect can be applied to powers that target others. The power then affects all targets in the area of affect. DCV levels do not target others, the normally only affect you.

Usable By Others could be used to give DCV to someone standind near, (with the proper Fx as justification) BUT, the rules say that Usable by/on Others affects other CHARACTERS. A hex is not a character. It does not have a character sheet or stats, etc. IT DOES NOT HAVE A DCV. The DCV of a hex is just a standard for how hard it is to hit a location. And its not that hard to hit a barn door.

To make someone miss you with an area affect you have to do something to make them less accurate with the attack (like affecting their OCV with change environment) or making them shoot somewhere else (like with images, set effect "Im actually standing over there"). Even then the area affect still goes off, and unless its small (like a 1 hex area affect) you still might get wacked with the big badda-boom.

For some reason I never tire of saying this.

The Hyborian

Re: Nonarchetypal Heroes

I think you put your finger on the biggest problem with DnD: The game seems to be designed so that access to magic at higher levels is a necessity. And the skills system' date=' while better than previous editions, lacks a lot of depth. 3rd Edition added a bit of flexibility, but it's still far from a generic system. Hero just does a lot of stuff better.[/quote']

 

 

Your on the right track, but the "problem" with D&D is that in its heart and soul its a highly abstract combat sytem intended to support miniatures. Any role playing is tacked on afterward. The classes are balanced for combat utility (well, in theory, please lets not have a subthread about clerics). D&D works best with a group of people who want to fight the orc, get the pie, and move to the next room.

 

Not that there is anything wrong with that. I have played a stupid amount of D&D in my life and it can be fun if you have the right expectations going in. But the support for non-combat gaming is mininmal. The skill system is very basic. Its basically about getting to the dungeon (dungeon being the castle/magic forest/ruined tower/moist hole in the ground) surviving the dungeon, and healing up aftward, hopefully on a big pile of loot and ale mugs.

 

As a side note, in 3/3.5 DnD the best shot at a "out of the box" character is usually the Rogue class. It gets the most skill points. You could do the classic fantasy thief, but also a merchant, a diplomat, a prospector, a spy, etc. All you have to do is rationalize why they have the sneak attack ability.

Re: Aberrant Hero!

I played in an Aberrant campaign for a while. I dont think taint was actually ever used "in game" once.

The standard Aberrant Nova would probably be 250 point characters, although we played at a higher power level.

I think the most important thing to make Aberrant work is the setting and factions. Recreate that well and your players will have fun. The differences in the rules will be unimportant.

Re: [Would-Be Hero-GM]Lethality

I suppose that's a possibility' date=' but it's an awfully radical move. It's bad enough that (on the standard rules) an 8 PD human can easily survive a dozen blows from a gorilla with a baseball bat. Using this suggestion, one could survive a dozen hits from a two-handed sword.[/quote']

 

 

In nearly 20 years of gaming Im pretty sure I have never seen a gorilla attack someone with a baseball bat. Not that I disagree with your assessment of the rules, they are spot on, but the image just made me giggle.

Re: Range of Light

The range of images is 5xActive points. If that seems too long save some points with a Limited Range (-1/4) limitation.

Someone else could probably see the effect area of the power from a very long way off. Have you ever been camping and seen someone else's campfire? They can be spotted at a huge distance in the dark if you have line of sight. That doesn't mean that you can see that area clearly, but you can detect that there is an area of light over there a long way off. As for seeing the beam, well, its only visible when its hitting something. Shine a flashlight at the wall, you see the wall, not the stream of photons. Mist, rain, smoke, or similar conditions might make the beam visible as the particles in the air are illuminated.

As for partial illumination outside of the area of effect, the rules do not strictly support this, but the GM could certainly allow a house rule for that sort of thing. Mitchells' solution seemed very reasonable. (dont tell him I said that )

Re: Aid, Power Frameworks, and Hulk-like Power Boost

I think you might be overcomplicating things here. You can buy characteristics as powers. I say skip the adjustment power, and buy your extra stats with a limitation Only When Engraged. Thus, when the Enraged disadvantage goes off (or other circumstances that your GM agrees to) your stats kick in and last as long as the rage lasts. The exact value of this limitation would have to be set by your GM, based on how often you become enranged in combat, probably in the -1/2 to -1/4 range. And this way you dont have to roll the dice to see how much you gain.

The Hyborian.

Re: Question about "DANGER SENSE DODGING"

Instead of Change Enviromnent' date=' I'd use Images with a 2" radius (well, 1 1/2") with a Set Effect and No Range. Basically, the character "appears" to be in any one of 7 hexes (in a circle). Any attacker wouldn't know which it actually is. This would only affect AE attacks though, the character would still get his DCV versus any normal attack (which should be very very high based on concept). An attacker can always make a PER Roll to determine exactly which hex he's actually in though.[/quote']

 

That sounds viable as well. I initially used Change environment because it had the OCV penalty option built in. But I would certainly agree to this if a player brought it to me.

 

It seems to me that this would twart those 1 hex area affects attacks with little problem, but still wouldnt do that much against a larger area affect. The attacker would pick the approximate middle of the area that the character appears to be in and "drops the bomb". Its likely to cover all seven of the hexes that the character might be in. On the other hand, that may be what you want, an ability that lets you evade a smaller blast but doesn't let you evade the gigantic fireball. I know one hex area affect is often purchased as a substitute for the (+1/2) I Hit All The Time advantage.

 

The Hyborian

Re: Question about "DANGER SENSE DODGING"

While im at it, I just had another idea how to simulate this. If you continue with the "I move so fast that you cant tell where I am" special effect you might buy change environment with the penalty to CV combat effect. Although the rules do say that "any ability to reduce a target's CV should be strictly contolled", I would allow a few points penalty to the target's OCV to reperesent that the character is a speedy blur. That way rather than depending on DCV to keep you out of the area affect you are lowering the enemie's abilty to target you properly. Its a fine point, I know, but still an important one to me. You would of course need some limitations to represent the exact effect, and remember that a missed area affect still goes off, it just is centered in another hex. Unless its a huge miss or a small area affect the character probably takes dammage anyway.

The Hyborian

Re: Question about "DANGER SENSE DODGING"

Yeah. I've long had a problem with aiming at a hex being DCV 3' date=' regardless of how fast the person in that hex is moving. Just because the miniatures are static doesn't mean the characters are.[/quote']

 

Look at it this way. The hero Captian Evasion can move so quickly opponents have trouble determining exaclty where he is standing. Its darn hard to shoot him with your blaster pistol. Game effect= High DCV.

 

Flamelord, in a fight with Captain Evasion, realizes that the hero is going to be very hard to hit with his flamejet, and switches to his fireball power. An area 20 meters across is filled with burning plasma, centerned on the middle of the general area where Captian Evasion is moving around. Unless Captain Evasion can see the attack coming and move out of the Area Effect (dive for cover) the power does dammage. Why? You can be as agile as agile gets, if your in the blast zone you are covered head to toe, front to back, in burning plasma. You cant dodge that.

 

Or maybe you can, but not with DCV based powers. What if Captain Evasion is a speedster character with a ton of running? He might take desolidification with some limitations to represent that when he is super-dodging he can zip out of the attack area just long enough for the attack to go off, and then zip back in. Because his all out defense super dodge mode takes all of his concnetration, he can not attack while he has it on. (Or if he has bought some really expensive advantages for his attack powers maybe he can) But he is so incredibly fast that he is essentially unhitable.

 

That I would let a character have with no problem. You cant damage me because I'm super fast is no more unreasonable than you cant damage me because physical effect pass through my body. BUT, as I have maintained before, DCV is not going to get you anywhere against Area Affect and Explosions.

 

The Hyborian

Re: Question about "DANGER SENSE DODGING"

Fair enough, but UBO simultaneous is the same cost as a hex AE and I'd be happy for a player to define the effect as giving their own hex a higher DCV. We've used this effect before, after seeing it in a Marshal Law comic where this guy with a green aura turns away a missile targeted at him as it approaches.

 

Very cool effect and say 4 levels costs 30 point and gives your hex a DCV of 7 - quite respectable as hardly anyone worries about a high OCV with AE attacks.

Ok, DCV bought with Usable By Others is fine, but we have moved away from the original issue. It doesn't matter how high the target's DCV is, it doesn't protect against Area Affect Attacks. Why? No attack roll. The attack is against the Hex, not a target character in the hex. If you are in the Area Affect you suffer the effects of the attack. Relative CV is totally unimportant.

Can a hex use DCV granted by a character? I would respond with a resounding no. Why? The rules for Usable On Others state, "This suite of Advantages allows a character to give a power to another character ." (my emphasis) A hex is not a character, its a location. Its DCV does not come from its ability to defend itself, but rather is just a standard for how hard it is for a character to target a specific location. The hex itself doen't have stats that can be improved.

Even if you dont buy the above agrument, consider this- Even if the hex gets the dcv,(and I dont think it should) the area affect attack still goes off, just centered on another hex. The character may very well still be in the blast zone. The attack doesn't dissappear, it just shifts.

I think that to have the ability to avoid area affect dammage you would have to look at some form desolidification, probably with a pack of limitations on it. You could define the fx of the power as some kind of super dodge, or uncanny combat luck. But just DCV isn't going to get you anywhere.

Re: [Would-Be Hero-GM]Lethality

Overall, Champions is much more lethal than something like D&D. Someone without protection who gets wacked with a axe or sword is going to be hurtin'. Not necessarily dead, but certainly hurtin'. You can tweak down lethality in number of ways.

One is to not use the optional imparing/disabling/bleeding rules. This is less "realistic" but lets characters stay on their feet acting until they run out of body.

Another way is to allow pretty good armor. Add a few points to the listed armor values in the books and characters survive longer.

A third way to to have character focus on Combat Values in character design, rather than body. (get away from the Hit Point mentality). Those goblins are a lot less deadly if they have 5 less points of CV than the heroes do. I like this approach, as you end up with heros that parry and avoid dammage rather than soak it up.

Lastly, be generous with healing magic. Characters aren't going to be so paranoid about catching an arrow in the throat if magical healing is fairly accessable, especially to non-spell casters in the form of potions, salves, pixie dust, what-have-you.

The Hyborian

Re: Yet Another "Name This Character" thread.

Thanks everyone who posted.

The Hyborian

Re: Sentient Weapons

What exactly would the sword be able to do? Define the concept first and then build the powers. It may be nothing more than a special effect, unless the sword has powers that the character can not control.

For an item that can think, speak, be affected by ego powers, use its own powers, etc, I agree with the idea of a Follower. Another option depending on the special effects might be a Summon with some degree of loyalty, (the characters calls forth a mystical weapon from Valhalla, or something similar.) Basically, if the weapon is a truely volitional thing with a mind and an ego score it needs its own character sheet.

The Hyborian

Re: Question about "DANGER SENSE DODGING"

If he wants to be dodgey' date=' then he should spend his points on +DCV, 1 Hex Area Effect. That way he can "dodge" area effect attacks aimed at his hex. You can throw in Requires Danger Sense Roll if you want.[/quote']

 

Im not sure how that would help. The whole point of Area Affect is that DCV does not matter. You could have a DCV of 97, I could have an OCV of 4, but if you are in my Area Affect attack area when it goes off you take dammage. The only defense really is to Dive For Cover. Am I missing something ?(always possible) I dont see how DCV would help.

 

And would't 1 hex area affect have to be applied to an attack power, or at least a power that targeted another in some way? DCV is DCV,making it area affect doesn't make sense to me.

 

Slightly confused,

 

The Hyborian