Onyxclaw

Re: Stat Increase = Skill Increase?

but HERO is all about customization and house ruling.

 

Darth Vegita. Look at bleeding rules.

 

Tell me they arn't retarded.

 

Then come back here

hell yes, thank you Bram and Chris for bringing back sanity to our games! I like the new bleeding rules...will try to incorporate them into the fall session.

Re: Creative uses for Change Environment

aww, thank you ^-^

Re: Creative uses for Change Environment

SFX:

crazy clown/wizard character can fill up rooms entirely with balloons wich decrease character's perception, cv, and dex. MMMMM did this to my mom's boss's new office once

Ballons Ballons Everywhere and not a place to stand:

Environmental Change

Radius 8", Multiple Combat Effects: +5, Long Lasting 1 hour: +10, -2 CV, -2 perception, -2 dex characteristics and skill rolls: + 36, total [AP 71]

if room is smaller than 8' then change effect stops at walls of room, cannot go through walls -1/4, gestures blowing up a balloon -1/2 (have you ever seen someone blow up and tie a balloon with one hand?), side effect character is lightheaded and slightly dizzy suffers 1d6 drain intelligence and 2d6 drain dex everytime he uses power -1, extra time: extra phase -3/4, OAF fragile Balloon -1 ¼ , [Real Cost 15]

oh, if you see a problem with this let me know, he's one of my NPCs

Re: The Last Word

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

(looks like my neighbor's brother's step mother)

Re: The Last Word

hehehe...keeps the aliens away!

Re: The Last Word

Damn! foiled again! It's been a bad night and I'm not thinking straight.....

Re: Long winded request for assistance

No offense, but these examples and others you gave greatly appear that you're playing on the same munchkin level as the character whom this thread is about. Coupled with your acknowledgement that you've been playing about a year, it doesn't appear you're experienced enough to qualify an answer here. The examples you've listed would probably be nixed by 90% of the GMs on this board.

 

We've probably all made cheesey characters before in an attempt to min/max the game mechanics as opposed to character creation (I know I have); however, the guidelines on page 15 of FREd are clearly being broken and abused and giving examples of your characters that would do the same aren't helping find a solution.

 

My suggestion (take it, leave it, or adjust it) is to step back for a bit and reflect on what it is you're wanting to contribute to this thread.

*sigh* they aren't munchkin characters. And I can say that because they are beatable and stopable, and it isn't difficult to do so. I have NEVER had a GM complaign about any of my characters, they all have weaknesses are are very balanced. They just happen to be good at avoiding this specific problem. General my high defense characters like the couple I had mentioned for dealing with this attack cannot dish out what they can take. They also all have susceptabilities to common attacks.

For eample, the desolid only to avoid physical blows comes packed with a X2 modifier to energy damage and a side effect drain dex linked to that type of damage

I suppose you would probubly consider my 300 point dragon character a munchkin too based on her character sheet, but she's been sidelined so many times by the other players that I'd find that an inappropriate lable.

The initial point to my posts were that a 24d6 attack was possible IFF (if and only if) the GM ment that the 60 AP cap was just for active points of the power and did not apply to the strength that could be added to it. But that I was not sure that was what the GM ment, and I did not want to assume that it was.

I already said earlier that if the GM means for the 60AP to also be a damage cap then MitchellS was right and that powerful an attack would not be acceptable.

I also have stated that there would be no issue if we were provided with GM clarification.

I have a lot of problems with being told that I can't know what I'm doing because I haven't played long enough. That's rediculous. I think the problem here is mainly a communication issue.

I have never said that the character that the thread is about is a legal character or that the GM should allow him. BUT I do feel that 24d6 HTH is not abusive in the right setting. As this obviously isn't it. If the GM has a problem with it he should talk to the player. But he can also build characters to counteract it. And it isn;t that difficult to build a balanced character that will put a wrentch in this players system. There are much more difficult powers to deal with than a powerful HTH.

I will also point this out:

I already did step back and accept that neither of us will agree. And I only returned to the thread after Mitchel did not do the same.

Re: The Last Word

HA HA you said "frown" instead of "drown" and it totally discredited your point' date=' now we can point and laugh and I have the last word![/quote']

 

Where I don't see a "frown" anywhere!

Re: The Last Word

well you know, as some people I know say:

Evil is based on drowning puppies. If you gave a person a bucket full of water and a puppy and they suddenly drown them, they're evil.

Drowning puppies evil.

Re: Auto fire on an area of effect attack?

I would also agree that it would depend on the game and genra. My current Star Hero Character would soak that damage easy. in adverage it will deal 14 body and that X multiplier stun per hit. It would stun Zekari, but it couldn't deal her body even at full value, unless her forcefield wasn't up.

also, since it's only AoE 1 hex, any sucessful DFC would negate the damage anyway. it the AoE was larger it would be more of an issue. He's basically just using it to negate DCV bonuses, but any character with high dex can still get away.

Re: Vampires and Automatons

Yep. An OAF dispel people: M240 machine gun dispels people quite nicely.

 

(Figure M240 is about 2d6+1K, autofire x 10, AE, and continuing to simulate supression fire, and I'd call that a People B Gone power.)

hehe

Re: The Last Word

mmmm puppies, so tasty

Re: Big Question: How did superpowers come about in your campaign?

I usually play Star Hero, so most of the time superpowers are defined by race. Humans with mutations or abilities are usually the result of cross breeding with another species, or through genetic manipulation.

Re: Long winded request for assistance

350 is the standard starting level [perhaps you're playing at a lower level]. Let's look at our only example characters:

 

Defender: Would be stunned, knocked out, and taking body from a 24d6 punch.

 

Nighthawk: Would be stunned, knocked out, and taking body from a 24d6 punch.

 

Sapphire: Would be stunned, knocked out, and taking body from a 24d6 punch.

 

Witchcraft: Would be stunned, knocked out, and taking body from a 24d6 punch.

 

Ironclad: Would be stunned and left with 6 stun to defend himself.

 

That's a typical 350 point team. None of them would stand up to a 24d6 attack. There are only 3 characters I can think of off the top of my head who can even do a 24d6+ attack in the CU.

actually this power and higher. One of my current characters for my upcoming game is built on 300 points and could weather that attack just fine.

A shape changer with unstable form brought on by his feeling in physical danger Desolidification only to avoid physical blows that the character believes will hurt him abbortive defensive action, costs no endurance.

again, I'm not afraid of that attack. It's not unbeatable or unstoppable.

75% damage reduction normal for 40 points akes the adverage stun only 21 ad the body is also reduced. Add some resistant defenses and it wont touch him that much on adverage

I'm not saying that a 24d6 attack wont hurt characters or villans. But it is very easy to build things it can't hurt much at all.

I have built characters with larger attacks than that as well. I have a ancient Thunasaloren with a 30d6 energy blast lightning attack. The concentrated lightning spike one is worse. But I also have a lot of characters that could kill him. as long as the attacks are in line with the

characters fighting them they aren't a problem.

Point don't necessarily make a character powerful, how you build him does. This character may be built to fight a 500 point character, even if he's only 350 points. And that's also ok. Hell, I know a 200 point character that managed to kill a 700 point one all by itself.

all the examples in the world wont make me fear a straight HtH

Re: Long winded request for assistance

If you don't think 24d6 [which averages 84/24] isn't scary against foes with 20-30 defense then you must be new to the game.

[/Quote]

 

I've been playing for less than a year yes. But if I have that many points I would have bought damage reduction as well. Wich makes those rolls a whole lot less scary. There are many ways around a 24d6 normal attack. AND they always have to catch you first. the attack is only scary if you let it be, by not designing character with such things in mind. A GM should not have trouble dealing with this, and thus I do not consider it a problem.

Your forgetting that a 12d6 with 1/2 end is 75 AP. That's where the difference comes in. Advantages can take over the DC threshold.

[/Quote]

*sigh* I do not wish to waste the time on this one.

 

Yes, and they seem to be the rules the new character needs to be designed around, for the most part.

all I'll say is "seem to be" I'd rather have some clarification than assume.

 

At this point though I don't really care anymore. Since you wont sway and I wont either it makes no sense to continue. So I respectfully call draw and bow out.

Re: Long winded request for assistance

Yes, I know. But, if it's DC then 12d6 is the limit. If it's AP per power then the only characters who would benefit from that rule would be bricks or people using martial arts. So if it is AP per power then buy the following:

 

12d6 EB

MA: ranged offensive strike: +4d6 with +8 DC with marial arts

Naked advantage: x2 AP on 12d6 EB.

 

Three different 60 AP powers that can all be added together.

you could just buy an aid to your attack. If it's a DC cap then the aid should not work, especially if you want to argue that strength can't add if it's past 60 AP limit. If it's a simple AP limit on the power then the aid would work.

Also, ANY ammount of strength adding to an attack is helpful.

And not just to bricks, 10 strength adds DC to my attack too, I don't have to have 20+ for it to help.

Granted bricks get more of a benifet, but then they payed for it by buying more strength. I do not see a problem with this, and do not feel that it only helps one kind of character.

I also don't see a problem with those powers adding together. If the GM doesn't set a Damage cap then yes you can do that. But if he does than you can't. That's why I do both.

Again, this can all be cleared up by a clarification of the limit.

Re: Long winded request for assistance

Roy' date=' those are some of the cheeziest things I've seen in a long time. Funny as hell, man.[/quote']

 

I told him the same thing when he IMed them to me ^-^

Re: Long winded request for assistance

If it weren't the damage class cap then everyone would be screwed except bricks and martial artists [bricks can get +12d6 in hth and marital artists could buy +12 DC]. I don't think most GM's would make such a two-sided rule. The guidelines are pretty well spelled out in 5Er on page 28.

eh, that's good for them. personally a 24d6 hth attack isn't that scary at 350 points.

also, be more clear about p.28. I see nothing that says anythign about those guidelines. If you are refering to the table, that's not a good source. And here's why...just one example

it says that a standard super heroic character has 40-80 AP in a power and DC of 6-14 But with 80AP I can afford 16 dice of HA

there is also nothing that says that there has to be a corolation between DC limit and AP limit.

That doesn't mean you can't lmit it that way. It's just not as cut and dry as you've stated, or at least does not apear to be. Also since these are typical ranges not absolute ones, they are simply to help keep these character's defenses and damage in line with one another, not definate rules.

A simple clarification from sjmiller about his GM's desires makes this argument moot anyway

Re: Long winded request for assistance

Yea' date=' MPA is legal, but they also subract defenses individually. There's a big difference between two 12d6 attacks and one 24d6 attack.[/quote']

 

that's true, but an attack like that can often me mentioned as a large number of dice. makes it seem more impressive than it is.

 

also, without sj's GM telling us so, that 60 AP may be the power's limit, not the damage class cap. If it's the damage class total value cap then you are right. If it's merely the offensive power's cap (without things that are usually added to it) then roy it.

 

I always make a point to tell my players the damage cap AND the AP limit.

Re: Long winded request for assistance

he could also use more than one power at once.

Re: Longest Running Thread EVER

Was that what the crappy movie with Hoffman and Stone was based on?

awful awful movie...

"lets all just forget!"

one of the worst endings ever

Re: Stat Increase = Skill Increase?

You mean becides the 8 CV and 14- Dex rolls?

they should have those too.

Look, you can always as a GM use penalties for doing things. For example. If a healer wanted to stabalize an organism with a paramedics role, but they had never seen that organism before, nor have they heard or red about it.

The GM decides that this is a -5 to thier skill role. The healer has a paramedics roll of -14 normally, but now it's only a -9.

Thus they drop from succeeding 90% of the time to only 37% of the time.

They are still an excellent doctor, since a doctor below thier caliber would find the task nearly impossible. Thus that high intelligence (or even SLs) helps them have a chance at preforming tasks at wich there is a penalty.

The book does suggest skill penalties. That why having a skill roll over 18 can be helpful.

In one of my games we have a doctor with a -23 paramedics role due to int and SLs, and she has still failed a paramedics role. She had no tools, had an impaired limb, and was not familiar with the alien's species. Her lovlely -23 was reduced to a -7.

having a high skill roll does not garuntee success.

Re: Stat Increase = Skill Increase?

Not really. A character with a 23 dexterity has a 14- roll minimum. Skill levels are great for increasing but do nothing for decreasing.

no you can't decrease. But if I want a roll of -14 for only a few of my dex abilities then why should I have a dex of 23 to begin with?

If someone's more than 4 times more dexterous than a normal person they should be better at any skill they buy with that stat.

Re: Stat Increase = Skill Increase?

Maybe its because Ive been playing HERO in one form or another for over 20 years now, but I find this entire discussion baffling.

 

....OMG I feel old...

 

Anyway, *Ahem*, where was I? Oh yes...

 

In all the games Ive played in HERO, there has -always- been the understanding that, should a character's stats improve over one of the "break points", the attendant skills would also improve by one, as well. I cant -fathom- not seeing it that way. As was mentioned, if your reaction time and co-ordination improve, so will your ability to drive in emergencies. Or to move quietly, or perform gymnastics. (Driving, Stealth, and Acrobatics). Thats just....common sense. To me, anyway. How could that not be the case?

 

The skill rolls we have in a HERO game represent not only the amount of practice or information that we have been exposed to in a given area, but also our ability to make -practical- use of it when the need arises in the field. Most campaigns are fairly action-oriented, and when the adrenaline is flowing and your heart is thumping, thats when you really find out how well you learned to do something.

 

Also, lets not forget that its very -very- hard for a person in real life to "raise their stats" once they reach adulthood. Physical exercise, unless its of an extreme nature, tends to raise your Strength and Recovery, but thats about it. I cant think of a way to raise your INT. (If I could raise my Int, I would, and then maybe I could think of something...) so its difficult to give examples of what the effects of doing that would "realistically" be.

 

But Ive always operated from the assumption that a character's skill rolls represent what the character can -do- with the information and abilities that they have. Sometimes you can remember what the defenestration of Prague was all about, and sometimes it slips your mind. How many of us have seen a particular actor in a movie or on tv, and spent several minutes trying to remember their name? Yet on other days it comes easily to mind. That, to me, is the difference between a failed or successful KS: Celebrities roll. (Just the other day I completely blanked on the name of Sienna Miller, the cute blonde from "Keen Eddie". Yet today her name came right to mind. Have I bought up my skill? I dont think I have since yesterday...)

 

So, yes, Id say that if a character's INT goes up past a break point for skill rolls, that all that character's skills increase by +1. Think of it as that level of Intelligence coming with its own +1 Skill Level Skills.

 

Approaching the matter from the standpoint of the "base roll" -only- applying during initial character creation doesnt really fit with the rest of HERO, where the formulas apply consistently throughout the game. That would be like saying that, even if your DEX goes up by 3 points, if it happens after initial character generation, your OCV and DCV are unaffected. That just doesnt jibe. If you dont believe me, try raising your character's INT over a break point in Hero Designer, and then go look at the skills

yay! well said. That's exactly how I feel about it and how I've understood it to work.

Re: The Last Word

Those are some nice pics' date=' thanks![/quote']

 

Thnx ^-^ I like taking pictures. Those are from our river house. I't been in the family for more than 40 years. Such a nice view of the front yard!