gewing

Re: What would you (or your character) do? #10: The Mugging

Laugh my ass off and take the Mugger to either the Hospital or the Police. Probably the police.

Originally posted by Wormhole

You're out on patrol at night, watching the streets through binoculars (or your own supersenses if you have them) from a roof top, when you see a mugger in an alley pull out a gun and acost a passerby. Just as you're about to go down and intervene, the would be victim surprises the mugger and knocks him cold with a mean right hook to the jaw. As the mugger is sprawled on the ground unconscious, the guy picks up the gun, slips it into his coat, says something along the lines of "Thanks for the gun, pinhead", and then walks away, surprisingly nonchalant about the whole thing. How would you (or your character) react to seeing this play out?

some of the basic ides for lasers are pretty nifty.

I like the low power targetting beam that when you are on target you press the trigger and a high powe pulse is fired.

A very weak lens that can be rotated in front of it could give you a shotgun like spread, less damage but much easier to hit with.

IIRC, In order to cover a larger target area (ease of hitting) and yet have high enough energy densities I think the SDI was talking about instead of one 10 meter diameter beam using say 5x 2 meter beams, one central and four smaller around it.

Large area covered, high damage if hit. On a really large target (not what they were intended for) it would be kind of like an autofire probably.

Same design could be used with smaller lasers, I suppose.

Army is hoping for a HMMVW mounted solid state anti-aircraft weapon within 10 years. They plot man portable within 20. Interesting as scary at the same time.

Look up the SPIKE mini-missile the Marines are trying to buy.

6 lbs loaded with a fire control system.

Missile is 2.2 lbs, uses a ccd camera for guidance and has a range of 2 miles. warhead is an Explosively formed projectile, supposed to penetrate about 1-2 inches of steel, but be effective versus machine gun nests, trucks, etc. Can hit a crossing helicopter moving at speeds of up to 60 mph. Originally designed for mounting on Remotely piloted vehicles, the marines realized it would give them a nice capability, each fire team can carry about 6 missiles and one re-usable fire control, system.

IIRC ATK has the contract for the warhead.

on the OICW/SABRE, etc

the 20mm grenade is so the velocity and so range can be higher, the airburst capability is nice, and there is a HEAT anti armor round under development.

NEAR TERM, however, The went to a somewhat slower 25 mm grenade.

Originally posted by CorpCommander

Its lame in the fact that it is so overdone. I doubt coherent light weapons will become useful as personal weapons. I think more interesting weapons will come into play and coherent light will play the part it's played for 3 decades now: range finding and guiding. Some lasers have been useful for ABM and anti-satalite work but overall I don't see people running around with laser weapons anytime soon if ever.

 

As we've seen there has been some pretty good discussion so I am pretty happy with this thread in general.

Someone here on the board was running a game like this.

The Elves are immortal, and total elven supremacists. They defeated the dwarves and enslaved them millenia ago. Now the Dwarves have been culled to the point they are "domesticated" imo, and they really make players who like dwarves nervous.

Humans live barbaric tribal lives in the hinterlands, they can't compete technologically or, I guess, Magically.

Orcs were nearly extinct, and the surviving ones live in isolated enclaves. They have had to adapt, becoming more "intelligent" and less savage. IIRC, there are Orcish groups that are like samurai or monastic Shao-lin. training in battle and working to control themselves.

I am quite intriqued by the concepts, but since someone else had it first, I want to make sure I have permission to use it. I will make my own tweaks, of course, but...

I really want to see the reaction of players used to "normal D&D worlds" when the elven character(s) are either kowtowed to or attacked berserkly on sight! :)

I really like the last 2 here...

Lets see what were my last 3 Champions Characters. HMM

Stalker, early years, he would probably go enrageds (innocents threatened can suck espcially when the Volshoth is dropped on Redmond by the Demonologist)

and start whaling on him. Of course the kitten would die, but it might well have company from the psychopath.

Later years he would shadow walk behind him, then NND him into unconsciousness.

John Hawkshaw the 3rd... HMM, probably shoot mr. psycho in the head with his .50 Barrett M82 with the laser sight and sniper scope, probably loaded with either rubber bullets (he had enough money to have them made... or something like a glaser safety slug. He was an 8' tall HIGHLY trained supernormal. If he was close enough, he might try pepper spray, but kitten would probably still die.

Mr. Takeda. Japanese government special agent... in a street level game. Probably either shoot him in the head with his .45 super or use his cybernetic tentacles (from his wrists, sicko!) to disarm him. He probably likes cats, but it would depend on whether he felt he had time out from his mission.

Hmm... maybe I need to make a nicer Champions characater

Originally posted by The Watcher

Warp (Spatial Manipulator and Billionaire Playboy): Telport, Usable As Attack, on the kitten. Now it's safely forty meters away. Proceed to knock out and capture villain.

 

Spectrum (EM Spectrum Energy Manipulator and Air Force Officer): An Indirect NND (Defense is Safe Environment: High Radiation) hits him from behind, stunning him before he can do any harm.

 

Mr. Mystic (Potential Archmage and Fantasy Author): The villain is now holding a super strong, super durable, and regenerating dire kitten.

 

Proteus (Biomorphic Shapeshifter): Is the kitten. And has just gave himself armor, regeneration, and claws.

I hope this is immediately prior to a microwave blast? That is cute.

thoughts on previous post...

I was told I was sick when I made the character many years ago with a 33 dex and an 18- mystic danger sense. I can hardly imagine a 43 dex!

Originally posted by J4y

Tell him not to use a gun, you shouldn't put metal in microwaves.

Re: Re: What to do?

I liked MANY parts of it, but it felt like the supers were the "New Gods" who reigned above puny mortals. among other things.

Originally posted by Mastermind

It is called Kingdom Come . I own it and wanted originally to run a Champions game in that universe until I got hooked on the official CU.

In the gaming situation that started this current round of "debate", maybe I have misinterpreted something. The "hero" who killed the villain, was he the ONLY person conscious, or was he the only HERO conscious. my interpretation of the whole situation was that the villains had incapacitated the rest of his team, and while fighting alone he accidentally killed some one. Obviously others interpreted it as he killed a downed target.

Clarification please?

I have always liked the electromagnetic guns.

done just right, you could use a variable amount of power with a variable range of projectiles. if I am not Totally off base, a coil-gun could be self centering with proper projectiles.

imagine...

10mm coil gun

variable ammo

standard steel 4.7mm bb. cheap, light, small. autofire, MANY rounds for a given weight. Could be fed 3 or 5 at a time for a burst/shot effect.

5mm Armor piercing flechette. possibly autofire

(newish version fragments after penetration... ouch.)

10mm HE, HEat, illumination, CS, or smoke grenades.

10mm bean bag- non lethal

now to make it more flexible, there are 5 pre-set power levels.

1- one charge. BB travels 2500 fps. Flechette travels 2000fps, grenades travel 200 fps.

2- 2 charges BB travels at 3500 fps. Flechette travels at 3200 fps grenade travels 300fps

3 -4 charges BB travels 4200fps Flechette travels 4000fps grenade travels 400 fps

4- 8 charges Bb at 5500fps flechette at 5000fps, grenade at 500 fps

this allows a range of attacks from 1d6+1 k to perhaps even 3d6AP. A really nasty person might go higher!

range mod improves as velocity does. BBs take a modified reduced by range, they are ballistically inefficient.

BBs are used by cheap forces as standard ammo, well equipped forces use them only as emergency ammo. The same size magazine that holds 10 grenades holds 5000 BBs.

The basic idea can be scaled up to cannons or grenade launchers, though they don't work with bbs due to larger size making it less practical.

Using strictly grenades/slugs would be even easier, Flechette could have a sabot around them. A bursting shot round could give a nice shot gun effect, modern cannons are being fitted with similar shells.

oh, if the memory projectile is invisible to x-rays... I like it either way!

Originally posted by Fitz

Memory-form projectiles -- very nasty.

 

Produced in a helical format and then deformed to a straight needle; when introduced into a warm wet medium (like a human body, for example) they revert to their helical form, wrapping themselves around bones and arterys.

 

Just the thing to make a combat surgeon's life a misery. Of course, they make the victim's life a misery too, but then being shot will do that anyway.

That may be what it takes to be a perfect 4-color superhero, but even Christ said that in some cases a man should sell his cloak and buy a sword.

All violence is not evil. All killing is not "murder."

I have usually played military or police characters. There are good reasons for it.

Originally posted by cutsleeve

snip.

 

Thats what it means to be a hero. Instead of taking life a hero seeks to preserve life and hope to try and change the world into a better place. when one claims to be a defender of peace and hope and the future kills they disregard all of these things. He has no hope that the one he kills can chage he shows he is a defender of peace at the edge of the sword and shows he had no desire to see if the future proves better then today.

 

A hero tries his hardest, laying down his own saftey and life, to do what is right to make sure people can live and hopes that their efforts will make the lives of the people of the future, the children of today, better. strange and unusualy powers does not make someone a hero its perseverance and dedication to life.

The problem I have is PUre 4 color is only a little more interesting to me than Richie Rich was as a kid.

edit

I was thinking further on my post. One of the problems i have with 4-color is kind of difficult for ME to really describe.

The best solution I ever saw was Terja's scaling campaign that Dean Schomshak and the guys played. But more on that later.

In true 4 color genre (imo) NORMAL people CANNOT affect supers in any direct harmful way. If the character sneaks into a warehouse looking for the evidence against the crime boss, the night watchman with his .38 (if he is just a honest Joe doing his job) not only cannot hit or hurt the character, the character can disable him without harming him significantly.

If there is some kind of mix-up or mind control situation and the Army is sent after the characters, even tanks won't actually harm them.

Now, I guess all characters could be made at 450 plus points, even the "unarmored" ones could have 7+ points resistant PD, etc.

But...

Do I really want to play where the characters are the untouchable "gods" (note small g) who affect the lives of the "mortals" beneath them? In some ways, that is what many games seem to be. Look at the Norse Myths. Loki and the Giants are the supervillains...

damn, I really didn't intend to get going like this. I do understand to some level the appeal of 4color. But in many ways I like things a LITTLE more "gritty."

It can easily get out of hand. Over the summer I played in a D-20 modern game. I came in late, and there were some real problems with the campaign. The ref was used to D&D, and all the players (except me) were too. NOt enough effort was made to explain our role in the organization we were in. Several of the players basically were thinking "Modern D&D" I misunderstood our role to think we were more like "Bureau 13" or a low end "La Femme Nikita" group.

We killed too many of the gangsters who were involved in the conspiracies we were investigating. After he and I talked a few times, the Ref was bringing things back under control, but then school started. Our schedules conflict so I just get to hear about the D&D they are playing while I am at work.

Originally posted by Trebuchet

No argument there. But in true four color comics, the villain isn't killed by the heroes but by his own hubris. Once that line is crossed, it's not really four color any more. At that point where it settles is a wide spectrum. Four color is like virginity: Once you've lost it, it's gone for good.

and no one gets killed when Darkseid conquers a planet...

I jsut fall in between. Some villains should die. One way or the other.

But then, I always thought darkseid was poorly written and drawn, anyway.

Originally posted by Trebuchet

I could make a pretty good case that Batman is not a true four-color character despite his obvious Code vs Killing. He certainly didn't get a reputation which frightens hardened street thugs by hugging them. Certainly the Joker isn't a four-color villain; in fact he may be the most vicious villain in the comics. He gets around the Comics Code by being certifiably insane rather than simply evil; which is why the authorities haven't put him to death.

 

I don't believe Darkseid annihilates planets; doesn't he generally conquer and enslave them? That's classic villain stuff.

Re: My old super-fantasy game

sounds like some of my ideas....

Mutineers moon was good, I havet been trying to figure out how to bring in "Path of the FUry." though. may have to try.

Originally posted by Stephen Mann

My "fantasy" world had tall skinny elves, short stout and strong dwarves, despised gnomes and halflings, and medium-height ugly and strong evil orcs.

 

The twist was the elves were descended from light-worlders and dwarves descended from heavy-worlders. They and the humans were passengers and crew on an interstellar ship that mutinied against bridge crew and other officers. The orcs were the humans engineered to use recently-discovered alien battlesuits, and were used as Marines and Security. The gnomes and halflings were short human engineers (necessary for the alien-derived power plant and engine) that tried to sit out the mutiny and so were despised by both sides.

 

Leaving out the details, the survivors were stranded on a nearby habital world and degenerated. The reversion was helped by the core mutineers since they preserved their tech better than the rest. They destroyed the tech bases of the other survivors, and encouraged the adoption of a spurious history that made them gods in subsequent generations.

 

The orcs are descendants of the Marines, and have created a society structured like an army base with childhood resembling boot camp. They know they are The Good Guys, warriors of the Side of Light and Authority, tasked to bring the legions of evil (the mutineer's descendants) to justice. Their legends are the closest to the Truth, but who listens to an orc?

 

This world later had magic introduced, and a stranded team of American superheroes from another dimension. The basic plot came from Mutineer's Moon by David Weber.

Re: Re: Re: How to Prosecute?

WHY did he run? That is the biggest thing that is likely to put him in jail.

Otherwise, SOunds like a situation where the DA will press charges, but the character has a good chance of a not guilty verdict.

Depends on the details, though.

If he pushed his strength against an unconscious target and aimed for the head, premeditated murder conviction.

If it was a mass fight and he was afraid for his life, maybe nothing but an unsuccessful prosecution on his record.

Originally posted by Mastermind

The way he reacted in game..shock and horror at the devastation that he had just wrought...makes me think that he will not do this again.

 

I'm wondering if the defense of "I didn't know he was that weak?" will stand up in court.

 

Definitely, fleeing from the scene of the crime makes things worse.

 

Unforutnatley, he was the last one standing in the area. The speedster had been compelled to run across the Atlantic, two teammembers were down, and the last had just teleported one of the downed members to safety (plus she's from another dimension). Haven't gotten that far in the story hour (this happens in issue # 14)/

I had one character who might do it, but there is no way HE would be the only one that could, at least at first. Later he developed a penetrating attack.

Another would think about it, check the records of the villain, then do it, but he was a supernormal, so there is also no reason he would be the only one who could.

Most of my characters were basically enhanced normals/martial artists. No funky attack powers, so they would be unlikely to be the "only solution"

The one with the AVLD does body attack was turned down. The weapon was a tool/anti cyborg weapon that had no effect on organic tissues, but still, I guess I can't blame the GM.

I'm sorry, I can't remember who had the Fantasy campaign where the elves were Uber Nazis, the Dwarves were slaves, Few Orcs survived, etc.

I would like to use parts of this for a game I want to start.

COuld you get ahold of me? I would like to talk it over with you.

Greg

I tend to agree with you. SOme Time ago I was trying to come up with a character to fit in a "not dark" 4 color game. At the time, the only idea I had was that the character had the mind of a 12 year old boy, as I had a hard time envisioning anyone else being as utopian minded as I interpreted the GM to want.

As it happened, i didn't get to play in the game, and it instantly turned into a MUCH darker game. Oh well. Killing was out, but mind controlling, mindwiping, etc were OK???

I tend to fall somewhere in between. Some characters should be unwilling to kill. Others should not. There should be some kind of consequences when killing is done. I have been thinking about running something more like super agents, or military special ops with some powers. Maybe something like "Strike Force Morituri."

does anyone have ANY idea how many people the JOKER killed over the decades? I would think a Federal Death penalty would have applied at some point.

Originally posted by Storn

wow. Every reply enforces the comic code crap and 4 color outlook.

bigsnip.

 

Listen, I'm not saying that 4 Color is wrong. It is just not for me. And if I had a GM saying I cannot kill because Heroes in Comics don't kill. I would walk. That type of world is inheritently unintersesting to me. What is interesting is the responsibility of power. In my player's pinky is enough power to blow a hole in something, HOW do I deal with that. That is conflict! That is drama! That is interesting!

Good call. Hmm, I have based several characters on songs...

Big john- a very large man in a fantasy game.

I know there are more, but right now i'mhaving a brain fart.

I'm almost tempted to make a character basedon Devo's "peekaboo" probably a villain.

"peekaboo, I See you, and I know what you do, cause I do it too.

Haw Haw Haw Haw"

did I remember the title correctly?

Originally posted by TheRealVector

I play a mutant named Vector and his theme song would be THROUGH BEING COOL, by Devo. Yes, he's a little strange.

Stalker- Either Another one Bites the Dust or more likely in the air tonight. He wasn't quite sane, but then the Mind Master complex was "experimenting"

Re: Re: Well this is another fine mess

Well, you could have him get kidnapped to hell and tormented for an EON in Relative time, then finally escape a better man...

Or an insane lunatic, which appears to be what he was "Tending towards"

I come down somewhere in between. Throwing the book at him is appropriate. Negligent Homicide is still homicide. I'll read more before I comment further.

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

I see a couple of options:

 

1. Stellar has disappeared. When the player is ready to rejoin, he can decide whether he wants Stellar to stay "disappeared" or run some resolution scenario. Then you can decide whether Stellar was in hiding, or some other plot was going on.

 

2. Team Vanguard is ready to deal with the Stellar problem when something more urgent demands their attention. That "something" keeps them occupied until Stellar's player is ready to come back.

 

#2 works best if you know how long the player will be missing and have something that can happen in the meantime (can we say "fill-in story"? "Annual"?)

 

Otherwise, just "disappear" him and give some thought to what may have happened. Surely in his long career, he's met with someone who coul;d remove him from the campaign scene, whether for noble or sinister reasons. Maybe he's kidnapped by aliens/ otherdimensionals/time travellers for whatever reason ("Only his power can save us in our time of need"; "access his teleportation powers to aid in the conquest of the Universe"; "we need another Gladiator for the games - here's a likely target").

 

EDIT: Whether you have an idea why he disappeared or not, you might just find player speculation and theorizing provides you with a better plot anyway! Then they can "discover" that their speculation was correct and feel great pride in their clever deduction of your plot!

any chance for a version the rest of us can read?

Originally posted by Hugh Neilson

Which is what I said - had they gone on to do something heroic - ie actually apprehend Eurostar; evacuate the civilians, etc. - the world would probably have looked the other way (maybe someone would say something about the specific legalities, but he would be hushed pretty quickly).

 

snip---

And where did it say their teammate's life was in imminent danger? By overtly invading the winery, Team Vanguard may well have palced their teammate's life in more danger than it was.

So you feel they should have done what? Leave their team-mate in the hands of some of the most deadly terrorists in the world?

like I said, maybe I'm more grey than 4-color.

This reminds me about one of my problems with "Kingdom Come" Superman iirc basically said- no superhuman has any need to kill, and if you do, you are a criminal and I will lock you up.

Problem is, He is capable of flying through an armed mob and disarming them ALL on his higher dex before any of them have any action.

Most are not. Kind of like if the US told Lichtenstein that they have to build an armored Corps to defend themselves. Only problem is, I don't recall, are there that many people in the country? and where would they get the money?

OK, that is a little silly, but just because the next best thing to a god can do something, doesn't mean everyone can.

Originally posted by Agent X

The problem is that you aren't looking at it from the perspective of being a superhumanly powerful and extraordinarily versatile fighter/rescuer. Responding as an Israeli special forces member doesn't really apply, especially if the GM is running a 4-Color game.

I was just thinking. The Israeli Gov't, iirc, and several others assumes hostages are dead and then if they get them back alive, GREAT.

Maybe I am to Grey scale in my gaming, but I tend to think any well known super terrorist who kidnaps one of my team-mates intends to kill them.

I don't know anything else about Stellar's powers, but I have to say, if it was me, I would have been more likely to blow Fiacho's head off, if I could.

It hasn't been made clear, though, how is the power used structured? Was the removal of the floor deliverate, or a side effect that he might have forgotten about?

Originally posted by Lupus

And that just ain't superheroes. Sorry. That's 'fascists in spandex.' Superheroes are borderline fascists as it is (how else would you describe people with great power who live by their own moral code and enforce it on others?), so I don't think it's a good idea to push this any further.

 

Others can feel free to interpret the genre in their own way, but in my games, superheroes are held to a higher moral standard (by themselves, by the community, by karma) than anyone else. And the genre supports this. Sometimes they may be faced withs ome very hard choices - but more of than not, when faced with two unpalatable options, they find the third choice. Yes, this means superheroes don't live in the real world. They're a fantasy, and they don't stand up to real-world scrutiny.

 

Note, I'm not counting Image-style character (Wildcats, et al) as superheroes for the purpose of the above discussion. That's because I don't see them as superheroes.Although in the real world, governments will do whatever they can to get a peaceful resolution. They certainly don't advocate shooting the hostages. Now, there may well be fewer terrorists in the world if we did that... but anyone who gave the go-ahead for that move wouldn't survive the next election.No-one's saying he tried to kill the civilians. He just didn't care about them. And yes, if someone teleported a floor out of a building, I'd expect a collapse. Ignorance can't be used here - the guy was warned, and did it anyway.

Nah, gnomes are dwarven Con-men who shaved their beards to pretend they are a different race. they are actually in collusion with certain Dwarven merchants, price fixing etc... "_

Originally posted by Enforcer84

Gnomes are cannibals.