jdounis

Hello Mr. Hiemforth,

Thank you for this great product!

1)I think the Damage Classes/Adding Damage (pg. 156-157) section leaves out key information about adding damage to advantaged powers compared to

Hero 6th Edition vol. 1 & 2. Was this intentional for Champions Complete? There is the reference to special active point calculation for Damage Classes but not how this is applied

in Adding Damage, i think if the intention was to keep the rule for adding damage to advantaged powers someone could not deduce it from current text.

2) Minimum Damage from Injuries (pg.157), without the example, could be misintepreted as this STUN damage is on top of other STUN damage(even if the header states minimum)

if think this could benefit from adding that "if final STUN damage is below final BODY damage" or something similar(forgive me, English is not my native language).  

Thank you,

Ioannis Dounis

I think of it more as "yay new content" and not "those bastards ripping me off!"

 

The APGs are optional concepts and interesting ideas, not official rules or part of the game.  Just suggestions: here's some stuff to try out!

I would say not core rules, but official and part of the game yes, more like optional stuff that could exist in the 6e1/6e2.

  The main problem with the majority of pen and paper RPGs of many editions are the legacy rules and subsystems that 

continue to grow independently reaching a point that all these moving parts don't move in unison anymore.

  To make an example of the most famous RPG, take the armor system of D&D, 40+ years in existence

and D&D still has not get rid of the Armor Class concept that creates a myriad of problems/inconsistencies.

 The same can be said ***IMHO*** about the Speed Chart in HERO, it's more a magnet for problems than

a feature of the system, i would prefer an AD&D's like initiative modifier for actions than this "phase" system

if for example you want to attack two times in a turn? your base DEX is 10 the initiative modifier of your attack is

8 you attack at DEX 10 and DEX 2, if it is negative, tough luck you must wait for the next turn, you are too slow.

A streamlined Initiative/Action system could solve most problems/quirks of HERO.

I know I've seen this as a conversation before, but I just can't track it down. Forgive the duplicate question.

 

​Common sense and dramatic sensibilities tell us that when you are out in the open and someone is trying to shoot you from a distance, you drop down to the ground to make your silhouette smaller, thus making you harder to hit (whether it's an OCV drop or DCV increase is moot to me, since it all comes out in the wash). However, being prone is a flat 1/2 DCV penalty. My question is this: at what distance should it actually become a DCV bonus (or OCV penalty for the shooter)?

 

Some considerations:

• If I drop to the ground 1 meter away, I would obviously be easier to hit if someone had a gun. Or even HtH for that matter.
• 10 meters away still seems reasonable to consider me 1/2 DCV.
• At 20 meters, it seems to go either way: maybe it's a hindrance, maybe a benefit. Target shooting at 20 meters in a combat situation isn't all that easy.
• By the time I get to ranges on the range modifier table (16m, 32m, 64m, etc.) and the OCV penalties start kicking in, it seems like the DCV penalty shouldn't be applied anymore since distance is a hindrance, and a smaller silhouette is a benefit.

​Has anybody worked this out? At what distance should "hitting the dirt" be considered a benefit, not a hindrance?

 

I would say it is very situational for it to have ground rule, for example being prone against an opponent standing on higher ground it's not such an advantage, he will still see almost the same surface area of your body and you will be limited in

you ways to dodge, so 1/2 DCV is right.Being prone against someone on the same or lower ground level ,on some distance, would get some Behind Cover Modifier, as 6E2 suggests(only head and shoulders showing -4 OCV) but still 1/2 DCV for limited dodge capability.

Mine are the following, i would really love to see them fixed/clarified in a revision:

Minor stuff:

• DCV of inanimate objects.
• Rounding rules(i really love systems with a definite standard rule everywhere).

Major Stuff:

•       Per character phase effects(especially environmental effects acting per character phase)
•       "Artificial" effects on  rules for the sake of balance(i.e. Remaining Multiple attacks wasted on first failed attack, Adjusting Frameworks Rules)

I think before embarking on making the next Fantasy product powered by HERO we should really delve into what a player(new or experienced) wants from a Fantasy RPG system/product not just in content,and that could be

in the form of a poll here or in some other major RPG site.For me:

I highly value Support and here HERO really shines, no other RPG save Savage Worlds has such an active support from the 

writer/publisher, the vast majority of "I take your money and never update or support my product again"(errata,rules questions) has the place that deserves. 

The next thing i look into a Fantasy RPG is the Scale of characters,if it is low that really sucks and drives people away. for example how much different is the lowest powered being from the highest

powered being, if an RPG answers "Mr.Inevertouchedasword has a Swords Skill of 0 and MusashiSama has a skill of 2" i am really reluctant to continue because it really limits my world.HERO is the best here.

Third is the Skills system, for me it's the first thing i look in a system to determine how much differentiation can be in PCs/NPCs i highly value system with rich Skill options that can really model a character and

just not another Killing Machine. HERO shines here too with many options, so a careful packing and some premade skills specializations is a must for me, for example Knowledge(Demonology), Knowledge(Ways of Magic)

with a somewhat extensive review on them, and what a roll can bring to play will give a great flavor and players love that. 

Next comes the Magic System here the real problems begin with HERO opening the Pandora's box, D&D apart from being the first pen and paper Fantasy RPG, had a spell list with a good definitions of what

each spell can do and how you can magic users can cast them that made an impression into players that still compare its spells with every other RPG, who has not thought of making a Magic Missile into HERO.

In other words those defined spells constructed a lore around them and even new players are excited about them and really get into the mood.HERO gives you the option of constructing every spell imaginable

and/or using a premade set constructed with the same system, but the critical question here is if should this option exist in a Fantasy RPG product out of the box? That section is that needs the most attention

and can really make a Fantasy RPG shine or not.

The basic bestiary is already done and I think its sufficient, all that is needed is to put maybe 30-40 one page monsters in the basic rulebook ala Savage Worlds.

Now for the lore/campaign setting, I don’t think there is much a need for providing a full campaign setting in the rule book, or even half of it, for example you can pick up Savage Worlds rule book and play in your world in a matter of two hours, it’s a product that shines and highly praised, D&D has Greyhawk elements in PH but not a campaign setting. You can play with the 3 basic books and never ask again about Greyhawk,MY-WORLD-SANDBOX-GAME it’s a big thing in Fantasy RPGs don’t forget that.

So to conclude, IMHO a HERO Fantasy Product must:

·         Wrap up skills into appropriate Fantasy skills but in great extend.

·         Use those skills to define character guidelines through Templates(classes like,but not restrictive)

·         Define the Magic System carefully, put a good number of premade spells in the book, with fluff in them don’t overload the player with Power creation.

·         Put a sufficient number of adversaries/monsters in the book.

·         Put hints of a campaign setting there.

• Put one sample adventure hinting the campaign setting, ala Call of Cthulhu.

Now after this product a player/GM Is directed to purchase the full 6^th Edition Rules/Bestiary/Grimoire/Campaign setting for next level of flexibility.

Yeah, but were those womp rats shooting back at you with blasters?

 

+1 to Chris' thought about the area effect DCV3.

 

But thinking about it and checking CC p 145, that rule relates specifically to area effect attacks against a target point, which can scatter and tend to be less precise than normal single target attacks in the first place. If a 10m radius AoE scatters 4m, you still affect your intended target point. It's NOT the rule for trying to hit a stationary object with a single target attack.

 

I've had a good look through CC and have not found any rule about targeting stationary objects as such, just the rule that a knocked out character is DCV 0. So it works for me that non AoE attacks against any normal stationary object should be vs DCV 0, modified for size and range.

CC pg.142 under Breaking Things, has the same text as 6E2.

The DCV for targeting an area effect is probably a little tougher to hit than a refrigerator an equal distance away. If I want to throw a rock at a refrigerator 8 meters away, and my throw would pass through the space where the refrigerator stands, and carry on another 5 meters, the rock will hit the refrigerator, It would not have "hit" the desired hex without the refrigerator in the way to stop it passing through and travelling another 5 meters.

 I don't disagree with that, my beef is that a  human sized character that is immobile/entangled/still has a DCV of 0 but a human sized object that stands still has a DCV of 3.

So if i throw a rock at a immobile human 5 meters away i throw against DCV 0, if i throw it at a human sized refrigerator at 5 meters away i throw it against DCV 3.

I think the DCV 3 thing is a hold over from earlier editions and how Area Effects were targeted. Until 6e there wasn't any way to drain DCV directly (it wasn't even clear if DEX drains affected CV back then) and DCV of at least 3 was pretty much assumed.

 

I checked CC on the matter and it uses "DCV3, DCV0 if the target point is within 2m of the attacker" for targeting an area effect. Size is basically +0 for a human target, +2 OCV per target size doubling and +2DCV per target size halving.

The bizzare thing is that according to RAW a human size character unable to move has a DVC of 0 and a refrigerator of human size, is somewhat elusive to hit with a DCV of 3 generally.

Hello everyone,

In my Fantasy campaign there where some issues raised with DEX  drained down to 0 in combat. According to 6E1 pg 44 a character with 0 DEX loses control of 

his reactions and must succeed with a DEX roll to perform an Action requiring any physical movement(even making Gestures), so when our Necromancer Drained an enemy to 0 Dex, i ruled that this

enemy should succeed  with a DEX roll to use his DCV or else he is a sitting duck with 0 DCV(although the minimum DCV is 0 an inanimate object of human size has a DCV of 3 that can not undestand) . Did i handle this right? 

Thank you!

Hello everyone, can you please tell me how you handle the targeting off non perceivable with a targeting sense opponents in combat?

For example lets suppose our Hero Mr. Longshot who has only Sight as a targeting sense is blinded by a Sight Flash from Dr. Atomic and Dr. Atomic changes position and he is at a range from Mr.Longshot, now Mr. Longshot is at 0 OCV but can he even target Dr.Atomic without making a PER roll with another sense? what about in HTH? must the player guess the position and make the attack at the reduced OCV?

thank you in advance!

Thank you all for your wondeful suggestions

As Hyper-man noted 15 AP are very few for an off-hand weapon and i will make the Light Offhand Attack with 25 AP to be able to use a short sword and below class of weapons.

As for the other options mentioned by mrinku, IMHO in the Fantasy Genre all expect two fall short of player expectations for some reason or another, players especially coming from D&D expect an offhand

attack to:

A)Use the offhand weapon's properties(i.e. special damage effect, armor piercing).

B)Be able to choose another target for the off hand attack.

C) The two attacks are independent of each other.

So in RAW the thing that's readily available and comes really close is only Multiple Attack, that only falls short on the C requirement, the extra SPD  mentioned by mrinku with the limitation

"only to strike with off hand weapon" is really good and probably the most realistic option but complicates the things for the GM in my opinion(having to calculate which phases are the result of

the increased SPD especially if there is Aid SPD, Drain SPD allowed).

I've come with this final form:

Light Off-hand Attack:  Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; After Attacking with HTH Weapon in Main Hand; +1) for up to 25 Active Points of HTH off hand weapon of Opportunity (25 Active Points); Open your defence(-2 DCV), Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (-1) Cost : 12

Thank you again for your suggestions and constructive criticism  

I keep coming back to "if it's built using powers, build a counter power. If it's a noncombat effect, probably use noncombat solutions."

 

Give the guy who bothered to spend 10 points to be a world class cancer surgeon a shot at using those skills for once!

I've come up with something like this,forcing the target to make an extraordinary Skill Roll:

Your Faith has Healed You:  Science Skill:  Medicine 30-, Usable As Attack (+1 1/2), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used, Grantor controls the power totally (95 Active Points); 1 Charge which Never Recovers (-4), Limited Power Power loses almost all of its effectiveness (Only to try to cure a disease on target; -2)

I dont know if it is valid though...

Is something like this valid/useful? i know it's far fetched you force the target to make a 30- Medicine roll to heal himself even at -10[Extraordinary Skill] without proper ingredients its a miracle cure!

Your Faith has Healed You:  Science Skill:  Medicine 30-, Usable As Attack (+1 1/2), Grantor pays the END whenever the power is used, Grantor controls the power totally (95 Active Points); 1 Charge which Never Recovers (-4), Limited Power Power loses almost all of its effectiveness (Only to try to cure a disease on target; -2)

Two-weapon fighting (at least as portrayed in modern media) is pretty much a video game invention.  Even Florentine style dueling didn't really go at it with both weapons at once, but its a thing now so people want it for their character.

 

This build looks like it would let people do what they want: hit with both weapons, so it probably accomplishes your goal.  Its cheap as dirt to buy off the off-hand penalty (3 points in 6th edition) and penalty levels to negate multiple attack penalties are pretty cheap too but this would work.

Thank you for your reply, Can i apply a Side Effect to a naked advantage, as a special power, that you suffer from it every time you use ? I would like to have an inherent -1 OCV(light)/-2 OCV(heavy)  to the above powers in addition to the Off hand penalties.

Hello everybody,

Due to popular demand in my Epic Fantasy campaign i had to find a better way to simulate two weapon fighting other than Multiple attack due to its restrictions,

so i made this build:

Light weapon offhand attack:  Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; After Attacking with HTH Weapon in main hand .; +3/4) for up to 15 Active Points of Any Offhand HTH weapon(11 Active Points).

I think it's a valid construction that also has the Off hand penalty of -3 for those without Ambidexterity.

I will make 2 versions of it for them to buy: 

Light weapon as above and Heavy weapon with 30 AP in the naked advantage.

What do you think?

And a question can i add a limitation such as Concentration to the above naked advantage, so when you use it you suffer the Limitation?

I really love HERO and i consider it the best set of RPG rules out there by far, but there are some issues/rules that seem really weird and artificial in the system that prevent new players from having a soft landing

on the system.As pointed by members in various posts throughout the boards, things that are really trivial in other systems cause problems in HERO, I am writing some that caused problems/reactions from new players in my games:

A)Environmental Damage/Effects

B)Effects that affect objects/equipment(enchanting items etc.)

C) timing of effects  based on Character values (like i have greater SPD so i am drowning faster,burning faster)

D)Multiple attacks that automatically miss(Player:Why i miss with my offhand automatically if i miss with my good hand?)  

That seem so weird to a player coming from other systems that the first time i explain to them or using them they either laugh or look

at me with terror/sorrow/regret.

You can always say, "that is the GM for", "if you dont like it change it etc." "for the sake of balance". But for a system so concise and in-depth like HERO, those things

that come in play often and seem trivial to other systems should have a clear explanation and way to resolve them so they dont break the fourth wall

all the time...

I think there should be a new level of wrapping around such issues to avoid confusion or repelling people from loving the system.

Hello,

There is a point of confusion for me regarding adjusting VPPs, in 6E1 pg 140 says that if you Adjust a VPP you must adjust both the Pool and the Control Cost based on their Character Points Cost Ratio,

But the example of pg 2, 01-16-2017 ERRATA(Medic affecting only the Pool of a VPP) contradicts that without correcting or even referring to this rule.Is there something i am missing?

Thank you in advance

There is also a point of confusion regarding adjusting VPPs, in 6E1 pg 140 says that if you Adjust a VPP you must adjust both the Pool and the Control Cost based on their Character Points Cost Ratio,

But the example of pg 2 01-16-2017 ERRATA(Medic affecting only the Pool of a VPP) contradicts that without correcting or even referring to this rule.Is there something i am missing?

A)Yes.  See my asymmetric VPP builds for Flash and Superman for examples of Pools already larger than the highest Active Point Power that can be used.

 

B)Yes

 

C)Not by default.

I think it can be done by way of Advantages.  Adjustment Powers must target an ability (or group of abilities by way of a Power Advantage. I'm using the term ability instead of Power because Adjustment Powers can also target Characteristics.  Frameworks (Multipower and VPP) are just containers for abilities.  The Limitation Unified Power does this automatically when one of the character's abilities with it gets Drained then ALL of their other abilities with Unified also get drained.  I also remember Steve's answer to a similar question as being something like - if a character with a 60 active point Blast in a Framework has the Blast hit with a Drain of 30 active points the Blast still uses 60 active points of the Framework even though it is 'operating' at 50% of normal (30 active points).

 

Hope that helps.

 

HM

Thank you for your time answering my questions, some clarifications if you please, 

for A) You can just Aid a Multipower's reserve without needing to affect slot(s), even if it's just a container for power as you refer to C? 

      that part in 6E1 is really confusing to read...

Thank you! 

Hello everyone,

I've posted a similar question to the Questions Section, but i want some insight too from the more experienced players

So i am really confused on how you can use Adjustment Powers on Frameworks, especially on Multipowers,

according to 6E1 if you want to Aid a Multipower you must Aid both the reserve and the specific slot/slots,

is that just to imply that Aiding the reserve doesn't affect the slot/slots or its a hard rule?I am also

confused with negatively affecting them.

For example

A)Can i Aid just the reserve of a multipower to give more space for active slots to a character?

B)Can  i Aid just one or more slots to make them more powerful, provided their new AP fit in the reserve?

C)Can i Drain a multipower's reserve to restrict the user from activating slots?

Thank you

Hello,

I have two question about using adjustment powers on power frameworks.

Q1)

Per 6E1 139, Positively Adjusting a multipower needs adjusting both The reserve and the slot(s), what does that exactly mean?

a) I can adjust the reserve or a slot/slots individually, this rule just implies that positively affecting the reserve wont affect the slots.

i can't adjust the reserve or slots individually i must do both(at once or with many uses).

for example if Mr. Flexible has a multipower of 50 points Reserve can i just Aid the Reserve to 70 points to help him use more of his multipower slots simultaneously?

can i just Aid one of his slots to make it more powerful without affecting the reserve, provided that is still fits in the reserve?

Q2)

What about negatively affecting a multipower? can i just Drain Dr.Terrific's multopower Reserve from 50 points to 20 Points to stop him from using his slots?

Thank you in advance!

Hello everyone,

All these years playing HERO one of my biggest beefs with the rules are effects affecting characters "Per Phase" like Lava, Smoke ,Quicksand etc,

i cant really wrap my head around being in disadvantage when affected by an environmental effect  because you have greater SPD and you have

to lower it. When some new players have to suffer from such a rule they start to question this wonderful system. What's your opinion/solution 

on this?

Hello, in 6E2 pg 150 the details about damage for large fires in the environment gives the damage per 1m traveled in the fire, but what about just staying in the fire? In what rate is the damage applied?

What about fast characters that could get out from the fire in little time despite traveling the whole distance?

Thank you in advance!

Steve skipped a step in his explanation and it makes it unclear. Dsatow has a more complete explanation.

 

He is still referring to Character Points in his example as the max is 24 CP of STUN and 8 CP of BODY. Before halving that would be 48 STUN and 8 BODY which halves to 24 STUN and 4 BODY.   

 Steve's answer is not unclear, he clearly refers to Characteristics Value and not CP,  as in the 6E1 book: 

"In the case of Simplified Healing, the maximum that a character can roll on the dice is 6 STUN per die and 2 BODY per die. Given that both Characteristics are subject to the “halving” rule for “defensive Characteristics,” that amount gets cut in half after the roll, of course."