jdounis

Simply put, the Stun was already halved.  1d6 of healing heals 1d6 worth of character points.  Against say INT which has a cost of 1 INT per cp, this would make 1d6 healing heal a maximum of 6 INT.  Against STUN, which has a cost of 0.5 cp per STUN, 1d6 of healing would (before the halving) heal a max 12 points of stun but after the halving drops this down to a max of 6.

 

Simplified healing, still heals the same amount of STUN, so the the maximum amount healed after halving is 6 points.  What simplified healing does do is allow the healing character to heal a little bit of BODY along with the STUN.  In 5th edition and earlier, this would be on the average 1 BODY per die.  But Steve clarification is that Simplified Healing is not Healing BODY directly but healing character points of BODY (this is different than 5th and earlier editions).  1d6 of Simplified healing would (if a 6 was rolled) max out at 2 character points of BODY.  Before halving, 2 Character Points would heal 2 BODY, but after Halving, it heals only 1 BODY.  As such, 4d6 of Simplified healing can heal a maximum of 24 STUN and 4 BODY and ON THE AVERAGE will heal 14 STUN and 2 BODY(assuming an average roll on the first roll).

I think its just an arithmetic mistake in Steve's answer, Simplified Healing specifically heals half the amount shown on dice in STUN and BODY ala normal damage with the new errata, not Character Points in 6E.

That's one of the reasons I'm going with "character classes" for the Fantasy Basic set. Each one gets a theme and a potted summary which describes what it will be good at. So one of the first things a player sees is something like this:

 

 

So instantly the player is getting a feel for what each class can do and how they will play. The Rager gets a lot of mass-damage, the Tempest eventually gets Speed increases, extra movement powers, etc. I think it will be a bit help.

My personal opinion is that HERO is a perfect toolkit/system for a new paradigm, the plague that inflicts D&D are Classes,Alignments,Levels & Feats the 3 of the 4 are with D&D so many years 

that now are so an integral part of the system and even the new edition couldn't get rid of them.Introducing such things in HERO maybe be helpful for the transition to it but act like "Make your D&D

using HERO" instead of providing the free-form character creation power of a narrative system in an balanced and calculated gaming environment.

I think so? Let me try this.

 

The Warhammer is listed as doing 1d6+1 damage, has a length of M, an OCV modifier of -1, a STR Min of 13 and a +1 to STUNx. (It also has 1½H listed under Notes). N.b. this is a HTH KA.

 

So If someone attacks and hits with the basic attack, that's just 1d6+1 Killing Damage. But if they do something that increases the damage by 4DC. Say some Martial Strike maneouvre, I would not step down the Damage Class Quick Reference table four rows, I would step down four rows and over to the right by one? Because the +¼ modifier means I have to divide the 4 DCs by 1.25. So the Warhammer would now do 2d6 Killing Damage for the extra four DC rather than the 3d6-1 if I went straight down?

If  you want to use the table, you first locate the Damage of the Warhammer in the +1/4 column(5DCs) and then you add 4 Unmodified DCS (not divided by 1.25) so now your final damage is 2d6+1 ( that means 3 MODIFIED DCs added or a whole Killing Damage Die)

Or else you can do directly the calculation with the division yourself and add the damage. 

A quick question close enough to the topic that it fits, imo. I notice in FH that the Warhammer has a little note reading: "Weapon has a +¼ Advantage that affects how damage is added with STR, velocity, and the like (see 6E2 99-102)"

 

I've looked at the relevant pages but I don't quite understand it. Am I supposed to be moving one to the right on the DC table (in which case the damage drops from 1d6+1 to 1d6 which seems a weird sort of 'advantage' to me). And also why would you not simply put a different value in the damage column if that's what it does.

Or is it supposed to be adding to the wielders Strength before calculation somehow?

 

As with most cases of major confusion, I am probably missing something very fundamental.

When an attack has Advantages that "directly affect how the victim takes damage" it would be unfair the same amount of added damage(damage classes, DCs) to have an equal effect to applying them to an attack that hasn't got any such Advantage or of fewer value.

for example:

If you have a Blast 5d6 with Armor Piercing(+1/4) and 4m Arrea of Effect(+1/4) that would cost you 5*5  * (1 +1/4 + 1/4)= 25 * 1 1/2 = 37CP that means each DC(damage class) costs you 7,5 CP(rounding comes in the final cost)

so it would be unfair when you add damage like 5 DCs to make it a 10d6 Blast, you have to take in account the increased cost per DC compared to an unadvantaged power. So when you add 5 DCs  you finally

Add 5 / 1,5  = ~3,33 or 3DCs. 

Hope that helps!

What if anyone interest posted a character build the most friendly way he/she can think, so we can get more pragmatic and mix and match? Like a 125+25 build with one page limit?

As mentioned above, the most difficult part of transitioning to HERO from "classic" RPGs is to unlearn their tropes, going from 2D select your race/class/feats to 4D imagining your character and making THAT character its mind boggling,most of my friends even when playing HERO tag their characters, the NPCs, spells and abilities with d&d terms, which is expected in the process of understanding something new but seems like translating idioms from your language word to word to another when overly done.i think a new approach would be better than trying to model the tropes in HERO, maybe a paragraph describing a character without tags, and then section to section injecting HERO system building elements to the description with careful references to the character creation rules.

^^^^  Except that 20CP for 1d6 of Simplified Healing (after doubling of price ... rather than 10 CP for 1d6 / 2) is anything but good when it comes to value for the CP paid ...

Hello,

 Standard Effect Simplified Healing heals 2 Stun & 1 Body after halving and rounding, against pre-Errata Standard Effect Simplified Healing of 3 Stun & 1 Body has an effectiveness ratio of 2 CP / 2.5 CP = 0,8  so i think that Standard Effect Simplified Healing is a viable option even after the new Errata. Of course basing effectiveness on a system artifact(rounding) is not something classy. 

I whole heartedly agree with the consensus.  I began playing Hero the Summer of 1981 and have never really been able to look at another game.

 

But this does beg the question, if the Hero System is the best Generic Point Buy system out there, why do we continue to struggle with a fan base?  Why can't DOJ sell enough products to remain profitable?  As it stands, very little is being released for the game and most of what is I consider absolutely sub par (I am not speaking of the big Kick Starters and such but more about the stuff being created with the OLA).  I truly miss the days of the Prospective Books for the upcoming year and chomping at the bit until the books came out.

 

It saddens me that even the partnership with Champions-Online couldn't get us out of this funk.  I am not sure if it is indicative of the nature of PNP RPGs in general or of something more related to HERO.  There is a steep learning curve and some people just seem not to want to even try.  One of the reasons I would love to see Chris Taylor's idea of the Starter Pack succeed.

 

My $.02,

  I completely agree about the steep learning curve and the unwillingness of many casual players to learn a superior but demanding in terms of study system, but such a community and official support is a superior asset to our

goal of spreading this superiority. I don't want to repeat myself but the most disturbing thing for me in a product is the lack of support, i did the mistake and in an impulse  i purchased Cypher System a year ago just to check about the whole hype on it only to discover that in order to get an official answer on a clear mistake/inconsistency in the core book , i waited two months and the reply was "discuss it with your GM and find the answer that suits your playing group" the good thing was that is pretty cold here in January and i needed some fuel for the fireplace.

Hello everyone,

    As i spend more time playing with the HERO system i find it increasingly difficult to adapt or try to play with another system. I own like 100 system core rulebooks trying all these years to find the holy grail that will bring the right mix of freedom of creation and flexibility on the crunchiness level required for each party but nothing surpasses HERO.

   In my current state if i open a new core rulebook its a matter of time until i get to a dead end regarding character option or GM'S options(and being mostly a GM for the last 18 years that's really a problem) also what makes HERO system really exceptional is its support, very few system have an official board for answers, if at all, and keep posting errata even after almost 9 years from their production. The other generic RPGs i have purchased fall apart each with major flaws(expensive, limited depth and power scale, NO support/errata/official board at all(Cypher System). I think once someone embraces HERO it's too difficult to accept the boundaries of other systems even if they come packed with fluff.

Anyone other affected with this syndrome? 

Which numbers?

• 10CP per 1d6 Simplified Healing ... then divided by 2 for the halving rule?  (i.e. Effective 20CP per effective 1d6 Simplified Healing??

OR

• 10CP per 1d6 Simplified Healing ... with no application of the havling rule (i.e. House-ruled to ignore the halving rule)??

 

Your post wasn't clear on which numbers you mean, so I am asking for clarification.

 

 

 

 

Also due to rounding rules  Simplified Healing/Healing halved does not equal Effecttive 20CP per 1d6 ,more like 15CP ascending to 20 CP effective cost as dice count rises,  i know this is an artifact (also i have posted a question to Steve Long if rounding is affected by incremental cost of adjustment powers). 

Hello, does the incremental cost rule of adjustment powers apply to healing/simplified healing? for example if i have Healing BODY and roll for 5 CP that after halving gets to 2.5 CP do i heal 3 BODY with rounding or 2? How about simplified healing and rounding? Thank you!

And as others have noted, Hero healing is very limited by the re-use duration rule, so its not as open ended as it seems.  Almost always in every game healing lags behind damage per equivalent "level."  That's on purpose to control its efficiency and the impact on the game.  In Hero its not as bad but it feels odd because you're getting half effect on the very abilities that Healing seems designed to take effect on.  And that feeling -- quite understandable in my opinion -- is what drives this entire discussion.

 

In the end, though, if you run the numbers, you get pretty good punch for your points, and in Hero that's what it all comes down to.

   I completely agree, a mechanic like stated in other posts of reverse normal damage for Simplified Healing at a X cost per d6 or a mandatory advantage for defense powers or characteristics would be better.

While that is generally true amongst table-top RPGs, the case is often reversed in MMO RPGs, where the party Healer may be expected to be able to keep four of five other adventurers "topped-off" at all times. Providing a steady stream of healing that out-paces the damage being dealt by both Mobs and the Boss, because if they don't they entire party is mathematically guaranteed to die in 10 seconds or less.

Both systems can be acceptable because it is actually really hard to imbalance the game with Healing. Healing, no matter how powerful, doesn't end combat encounters except in the rarest of circumstances (which can usually be blamed on poor encounter design); you simply cannot Heal your enemies into submission. Literally the worst case scenario is that you have to adjust your encounter design to accommodate the fact that the party doesn't stay injured between battles.

Meanwhile, a similar number of Active Points instead spent on Drain SPD, Area Of Effect, Constant, Delayed Return Rate (1 Minute), Penetrating, Personal Immunity, Zero END will destroy just about any encounter, and there isn't much the GM can do about it without being really cheesy in return (like giving enemies one or more points of Inherent Speed).

Personally, I don't mind healing being fairly easy and effective.  I want the PCs to win, I don't like it when they get beat to paste and killed.  Healing just lets the characters keep going when they would otherwise have to rest, because if they all die, the adventure is simply done.

              I dont mind about healing being effective either, i think if something is available in both players and their enemies in the same amount/efficiency there is not a problem.However as i mentioned before this "imbalance" between damage output and healing has worked for years in mainstream table top rpg like ad&d, d&d, WoD,Savage Worlds etc. without complaints or ill effects AFAIK. Also in HERO you get recoveries inside battle at least for STUN damage, so you are not completely at the mercy of fate like in other RPG's where you have to spend resources to heal every type of damage or difficult skill rolls within time limits(Savage Worlds for example).

I personally find the after-errata cost of healing somewhat high but withing the cost/effectiveness range of other RPG systems.in Hero you can typically use your healing powers to every party member to the maximum effect outside combat with only cost in END(raw power without expendable focus etc.), something that is unheard in systems like d&d in which you have a  limited potency for healing, costing you spells slots and without guarantees for the healing effect even outside combat(unless using metamagic feats, or high level spells like Heal). Also for the same spell level slot a "healer"(typically a cleric/druid) can heal much less hp that a damaging spell of the same spell level slot can do.( 5th level wizard with fireball 5d10 damage, 5th level cleric cure serious wounds 3d8+5). That is costly healing is something accepted in RPGs in my opinion.

something like Tom Cowan's answer:

Holy Water Pistol:  Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6 (37 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses almost all of its effectiveness (Works Only On Creatures Susceptible to Holy Water; -2), OAF Fragile (-1 1/4), Limited Range (-1/4), No Knockback (-1/4), 32 Charges (+1/4) Real Cost 8

Hello everyone!!!

• How did you come up with your 'handle' (forum name)? It's my name
  
• What was the first tabletop RPG you played? AD&D 2nd Edition
  
• What was the first tabletop RPG you GMed? AD&D 2nd Edition
  
• What are you currently playing/GMing? HERO 6th Edition, Call of Cthulhu 7th Edition
  

Hello,

After reading some posts i got really confused about powers that have charges and the "STR minimum" limitation but also the "STR does not add damage" one, do they cost END to use? What about multiple uses of them in a phase what is their cost in END? Thank you!

Hello and a happy new year!

In hero system skills pg 14 there is "advanced familiarity" for a flat 11- roll at a cost of 2cp and skill proficiency is not mentioned as in 6e1(10- for 2cp )which takes precendence/ is the most recent? Thank you for your time!

Hello and a happy new year,

 I was just skimming HSS for 6th edition today, wanting to incorporate stuff from it in my new Lovecraftian Horror Campaign, and saw that "proficiency"( 2cp for a 10- roll) from 6e1 is not there, but there is "advanced familiarity"(2cp for 11-) is this an omission or a previous version rule? 

Bonus Question: How do you handle untrained skill rolls in your games?

thank you!

There are some copies on e-bay appearing frequently.i have bought vol.I & II there (my 2nd copies).

Hello,

How is combat  between combatants of size different than a normal human(2m) handled?, for example if two Pixies of tiny size fight each other should the GM remove the template's DCV bonus due to size, or better adjust it based on the relative size of the combatants?

Thank you for your time!

Thank you all for your valuable suggestions, i am too against two weapons fighting as a major concept in melee combat from a historical view and balance issues.Now i will  offer to my players Multiple Attack with all it's restrictions and ways to ease them, and inform them that to strike more often and in various ways you have to be quicker! really quicker = buy extra speed.

Hello,

If someone is making a combined attack lets say with two weapons one in each hand, does he roll once, takes that as a base number and then adds different modifiers for each weapon to see if that hit? ( like off hand penalty, different OCSLs with each weapon in hand etc.) ?

example:

i have OCSLs with daggers + 2

I hold a longsword in my good hand

and a dagger in my off hand

i assign my CSLs

if decide for an combined attack on an enemy

i roll a 13

My good hand is at 13 total

My off hand is at 13+2-3 = 12 total

is that correct?

thank you for your time!!!

Hello,

I have just noticed that in Fantasy Complete the rule about the lack of "off hand" penalty in multiple attack is omitted and was somewhat relieved(aside from being an accidental omission), but also that  the rule of when you miss an attack you miss all the remaing in the sequence is still there.I have found both of this rules counter-intuitive when i try to model two weapon fighting in the fantasy genre.So as far as i know HERO 6TH there are the following options for modeling two weapon fighting:

a)Multiple Attack with the above "restrictions".

b)Combined Attack(but you can only strike one target with both weapons and only roll once).

c)Buying extra Speed with the Limitation "Only to Strike with off-hand"

How do you handle it in your games?

Thank you very much in advance.

Hello, i am playing HERO from 5th edition revised, i am trying to introduce HERO 6th edition to as many RPG players as i can and recently bought Champions and Fantasy complete for 2 of them, they really like the books but my personal opinion is that is very difficult to play/ understand the book without having the 6E1 and 6E2 books nearby.Things like computing damage classes for advantaged power(and why you do so), or adding damage or even minimum damage are so minimally worded and without examples in the complete books that if these are your first and only HERO 6th edition you have to resort to the forums to clarify them or have an INT score of 20+ to work them out on your own(DC,adding damage,missing DC table).its a pity for such a wonderful and loved system as HERO.I hope there will be an errata on them soon.

P.S. otherwise from minimun wording i like the books too and congratulate every HERO product available and the effort of the writers.