Robyn

Re: Power fuild help needed: Transform+AOE

I would say, to prevent the "transformation into lava" that was pointed out in the other thread, that the power should be forced to take the limitation "must also affect the Body of all other substances on top of it". So, if the player wants to turn a bay into steam, he has to get a high enough result to Transform all the ships too, and their inhabitants (this will probably be just impossible, if you let the highest Body of each substance stack).

Re: Power fuild help needed: Transform+AOE

Its Transform with Limited Target, and other stuff. To make it useful its got to have AOE. Begs the question: what BOD is the Tform acting against? The BOD of the whole thing he's trying to Tform, or each hex of the target?

 

My friend says each hex, like each target in an EB AOE. I'm not convinced. Is that right?

One of the options for an Area of Effect power is "Nonselective Target", meaning you must roll to hit against each individual target. This seemed close, but doesn't directly bear on what you're trying to do here.

However, my belief is this: like any AOE attack that affects an area in which several characters are standing, you affect all of those targets equally (you don't split damage between them). So, you would roll once for damage, and apply that individually to each Hex in your Area of Effect.

Your friend may be thinking of trying to "spread" an Energy Blast, which does reduce the damage for each target, whether you hit them all or not.

Re: Heat of the Moment

Of course' date=' my GM at the time never had a rule such as yours to keep me in my place. Instead, he just calmly explained to me that [i']he[/i] was the GM, not the rulebook. I had to be reminded a few times, but it eventually sank in.

One of the first games I was in had a player who was arguing with the GM as I tried to create my character. The first time, the GM asked "Tom. Who's the GM?", and Tom (not his real name, I'm using 'Tom' to protect him from identification) said "You are." The second time, the GM looked up from his books and said "Tom, roll 6d8 instead of 10d8 for hit dice." The player looked up and said "What? Why?" and the GM interrupted him by repeating, more firmly, "Roll 6d8 for hit dice." Tom got the hint and shut up, rolling 6d8 (or at least I assume so, since I was too busy with my own character to try and figure out what everyone else around the table was doing). I took the hint too, though.

One of the nicer things about The Dying Earth was the number of "core gaming assumptions" that it spelled out in the rules, after reading through so many other gaming sourcebooks that didn't mention anything of the sort (even a little note from the makers of the game saying "we don't care how you do it"). For example,

(In answering your question, Alex is fulfilling another of the GM's roles, as interpreter of the rules. The GM, not the rulebook, decides how his game runs. If he doesn't like a rule, he can change it. However, he should warn you in advance that he's done so, so that you're not making assumptions based on rules he's altered or eliminated.)

But letting the players know about rules that have been eliminated and altered isn't such a big problem, even when the rules have been heavily modified from their original form;

Your GM will have read the entire rulebook and can teach you detailed rules as needed. Like Alex in the example above, he'll do best by telling you what you need to know as you need it, as opposed to recapping the entire rules set at the beginning of the first session.

The rules in TDE were amazingly simple; roll 1d6. If you got a 3 or above, you succeeded.

There were complications (like bonuses or penalties to the roll), but nothing complex. You just had to remember that there were no "naturals"; if the GM asked you to roll with a 3-point penalty, she was essentially telling you that the task was impossible, but seeing if you were so dense at math as to attempt it anyway

I also loved The Overarching Rule of Efficacious Blandishment:

The overarching rule of efficacious blandishment is the most important rule in the game. The overarching rule of efficacious blandishment states that a character who tries to do something outside the letter of the game's other rules may do so, provided that the player convinces the GM that this action falls within the spirit of the story. Thus the only true circumscriptions on your actions are maintained by the twin poles of your persuasiveness and your GM's gullibility. When arguing the merits of the Dying Earth roleplaying game, in person or on the Internet, respond to individuals who complain about certain rules with the standard reply, "Your argument is flawed. The overarching rule of efficacious blandishment lets you disregard the rule about which you complain so bitterly." Experienced roleplaying gamers may claim that the overarching rule of efficacious blandishment is scarcely original to the Dying Earth game. In fact, they might argue, in all roleplaying games players and GMs may mutually agree to disregard rules to better fit a given situation. However, gamers so often forget this that we feel secure in claiming it as our own sterling innovation.

The Dying Earth game is, in many ways, about creating the most amusing story. If good fun is what you're after, and you're willing to sacrifice realism and strictly enforced rules for it, you'd probably enjoy just reading the book if you can't find a game in your area

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

Unless you've read the character sheet' date=' you don't know he'll reappear a few feet away in 6 hours' time, so that's a pretty good escape plan. You go to the jewelry store/bank/etc. at 5 PM, and reappear after closing time to rob it. Lots of effect for what, 10 points.[/quote']

 

On the other hand, while it's easy to count on the heroes being on time, the cops aren't always available immediately . . . so, they might be too busy to investigate the report until roughly six hours later, and they're just taking statements when suddenly someone goes "Hey! There he is!"

Re: Heat of the Moment

Yeah' date=' I have a solution for those players as well... I just don't play with them. [/quote']

 

It makes it sad to think of all the munchkins out there who would potentially be great roleplayers, if we'd just give them a chance . . . I may be a hopeless idealist, but I've seen them change, so I like to be tolerant of the players who have a different style of play. Of course, then I have to find ways of GM'ing a group that consists of several different types of player, without rigging up unique house rules to individually handle their differences.

 

That's why I like this mechanic. It lets the people who want to use it for major decisions, use it for major decisions; and the people that don't want to, can opt to use it for something else entirely. One simple little rule, so many ways that different people can use it to have what they want. It doesn't serve everyone, but most players will be able to find an acceptable point along the spectrum for themselves.

 

Once in a while that happens' date=' but I prefer to address it immediately, so that we're all on the same page.[/quote']

 

I did mean "immediately" for addressing it out-of-game, but what I meant by "taking a short break" was that time wouldn't pass in-game while the player was learning something new. Characters shouldn't have to be locked out of play while things continue happening without them, just because I needed to let their players know about something that hadn't come up before.

 

Besides, without the GM, it's sometimes difficult to have events progress in game, so, in a sense, we have to be on pause

Re: Characters that give you nightmares trying to design

You forgot: Personal Immunity:p .

Hey, I didn't say they could make time resume again

That would be an interesting "useless power": time stops, the effect wears off, noone realizes that anything had happened.

Now, making the effect have "extended duration" might kill people from starvation

Re: Heat of the Moment

ZP: Nope' date=' you're still missing the point. This really is about determining what someone would do in the heat of the moment[/quote']

 

I made the initial example very strong to clearly get across the "conflict" idea, but I think people are holding on too much to their impressions of that one example.

 

in which - as KA puts hostily' date=' but accurately, instead of doing what I want - i.e., grease stain the villain - I'm going to fix this toaster, because it's more suprising.[/quote']

 

No, this is incorrect. The only possible outcomes are those which are already indicated by prior knowledge about the character - by what has already been established. In that case, you "want" (in a sense) to do both of those things, but you can only do one of them. KA's example would only be valid if the character actually "wanted" to fix a toaster.

 

At the end of the day' date=' you simply have to ask yourself is a mechanic which states that the contract as you've written it for your character can be called into question at GMO, then you won't really have a problem here.[/quote']

 

Since I'm establishing at the outset that the character contract includes those character details which aren't written down as Disadvantages, the question isn't Game Master Over whatever, which I am guessing is what you're trying to abbreviate here; the player has an obligation to acknowledge the potentially greater-than-has-come-into-play-to-date influence of previously discovered facets of their character.

 

I said "Psych lims!" and Robyn said "Not necessarily!" and I went' date=' "Well... ****, then I have no idea what you want, but at least 50% of what you want already exists."[/quote']

 

I find it ironic that the rest of you have been protesting my dicing of what should be roleplaying, and here I am trying to argue that details which are established only through roleplaying should be able to overpower details which are bound into the game rules

 

Part of what Robyn was trying to establish was whether a mechanic that can 'push' a character in a direction exists already. It does' date=' those are Psych Lims.[/quote']

 

I don't like the idea of taking every little detail we know about the character, however, and writing it in as a Disadvantage (what, 1 point apiece?). It's just making things too complicated.

 

But that wasn't the core of the discussion' date=' the mechanic is to be used only in dramatic situations where things matter.[/quote']

 

I've been trying to describe a "sliding scale" of significance, where some things are "only marginally significant" (i.e., not very dramatic) and others are "highly significant" (i.e., very dramatic), and an implied infinite range in between, but somehow everyone seems to be seeing only "things matter" and "things do not matter", and if what I'm saying isn't one of those, switching it to the other.

Re: Heat of the Moment

If you're having the players roll to determine things about the character that are' date=' in and of themeselves, unimportant, but could have important implications later, that doesn't sound so bad.[/quote']

 

How important it is depends on when the players decide to utilize the mechanic. I won't prevent them from using it when I feel that it's too significant a decision, but I would object if they were in the middle of combat and suddenly announced that they wanted to roll for whether their character liked pumpkin pie or lemon meringue better. Unless they made it marginally significant, of course; for example, if they wanted to throw a pie in the villain's face, they could announce their plan and, presuming there was actually a bakery nearby, rush in to pluck one from the shelves. At that point, it's a rushed decision, the player knows that the character has eaten both types in the past but doesn't want to take time in the middle of playing through the fight to figure out which their character likes best, but also knows that a preference would probably influence which the character saw and reached for first; so, the mechanic would then be appropriate there. The implications later on might not be important, either; the character is sitting down at a table with his date, and the waiter comes to take their order for desert. Instead of hesitate when asked what type of pie he'll have, the player can respond immediately and with confidence.

 

Just to make sure we're on the same page: this is for things like "do you prefer blondes' date=' brunettes, or redheads?"[/quote']

 

To expand the example from an earlier post, your character is exiting the club and gives a friendly smile toward a blonde dancer, hoping to meet up with her later if they can defeat the villain quickly. Then you go "Wait a minute, my wife was blonde, but my childhood sweetheart was a redhead; which color do I like more? Was the color of my wife's hair a factor in my attraction to her or did I marry her for other qualities?", and, since you have conflicting indications, the mechanic becomes available.

 

On another point: the game may not directly reward a player for roleplaying his or her disadvantages' date=' but a good GM [i']will[/i].

 

It's when they have conflicting Disadvantages that I'm thinking about, and I've been wondering how to handle Variable Point Disadvantages to balance it, but all in all I've not yet seen a way to implement it that isn't more trouble than it's worth.

Re: Heat of the Moment

It sounds like your group has gotten so swept up in the affectation that your fictional characters are 'real', that you enjoy saying:

"My character is so real, even I don't know what it is going to do in every situation.

There is a difference between "real" and "realistic".

Most people either don't realize or don't acknowledge this difference, however.

But' date=' when you get to the point where you believe that your characters have a distinct reality of their own, and that they are somehow 'communicating' their ideas and feelings to you, and that they are just as 'real' as people who occupy physical space, then you are exiting Role Playing and taking the ramp marked Schizophrenia.[/quote']

 

I'm guessing, since you even suspect this about me, that you're just skimming through the threads and perhaps reading more deeply through RDU Neil's posts; if you actually take the time to read my words on this, you'll find that I specifically brought this up (for the first time) in the context of being "if I were inclined to satire". At later points, when RDU Neil suggested that he might actually be taking it seriously (and this for something that I'd never even said in the first place! Just pointed out how similar such an argument would be to his own), I explicitly stated that I did not mean or believe in any such thing.

Re: Heat of the Moment

In my games' date=' I love that element that makes the player temporarily go 'wtf mate? That's not making sense to me right now!' I love even more when they get to the point where it all does make sense. I love to unveil the big picture a pixel at a time, but it all fits the underlying reality I[/we'] have created for the game.

Exactly . . . I have a house rule called "the Metagaming Influence" which, in retrospect, was another of those mechanics I put into place which are really nothing more than a formalization of what every sane gaming group already does . . . but, I think I'll keep it as a rule, since I remember now why I did it: because of those rules lawyers who insist that you can't do anything if it's not explicitly spelled out in the book.

The effect was to allow me, as GM, to over-rule any player in their description of the campaign world or of their character (or their character's actions), based on information that I had not made available to them before. The reason I called it the "Metagame Influence" rule was that this information could have been unknown to them either because I simply hadn't had a chance to tell them yet, or because the influences were due to some larger part of the world and the plot which was keeping itself secret (in other words "I know it doesn't make sense for these politicians to be acting like this, and I can't tell you whether it's because of pressure from above or something else, but that is how they're behaving; you'll just have to trust me on this, for now."), and naming it for the former wouldn't have resulted in nearly such a cool name

In the case of the former, the passing of time in-game would take a short break as I filled in the player on what they hadn't known, whereupon the player says something like "Oh, I wouldn't have done that if I had realized . . . " (when I've just revealed a difference from the situation that would be expected in the real world), and then we resume with some alteration of past actions, and the player proposes other actions after reconsidering, in light of the new information.

In the case of the latter, my invocation of this rule would be my promise that, eventually, the reasons would become available later on as in-character knowledge. I deem this a good balance since, normally, "metaplot" reasons would only become available to the players

So I neither let the dice' date=' nor the character's actions become the pizza dude... unless of course I can find a way to allow the pizza dude to join the reality that we're setting down.[/quote']

 

I'm reminded of "Reno 911", with the LARP/tabletop gamers

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

As it happens' date=' this kind of t-port trap is one of my character's favorite non-lethal ways to take someone out of a fight;[/quote']

 

Non-lethal?

 

My concept of the portal was as just that, not a doorway; if you were knocked slightly askew, so that you no longer fit perfectly through the portal, then part of you would go through the portal and the rest of you would continue falling, off to the side.

 

In other words it would slice you in half

Re: Characters that give you nightmares trying to design

anybody with time stop powers.

Speed Drain, AOE Megascale: the planet, No Visible Power Effect (All Sense Groups)

Re: Where would you go?

The characters are going on the vacation. They have been through quite alot over the last 5 months or so and are in need of some R&R.

And are you going to give it to them?

Re: Spell build help needed: Transform + AOE

Does the Transform in 5ER automatically make it easier to change substances into related substances, or would I be able to take that as a Limitation?

For example, if I wanted to change glass into sand, would that be cheaper than changing glass into ice?

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

Robyn: Yes' date=' TP traps are nasty. Oddly, that was the FIRST thing I thought of.[/quote']

 

Would you believe I came up with the idea for something as cliche as "scientific curiosity"?

 

I originally thought of this several years ago, though I don't recall what system it was in connection with, and tried to figure out what sort of interval would be required to shut the portals off after someone had reached maximum velocity.

 

Nice signature' date=' btw. [/quote']

 

Thanks. I modified it for the April Fool's Day challenge, then removed that link after posting the solution and Repping - err - what's the name? :checks PM for name: Dust Raven (I was thinking Death Angel for some reason) for having guessed the answer.

Re: Where would you go?

Hi,

 

I am running a Silver Age Champions game set in San Francisco in the year 1964. My players all go to Stanford University and they are due to return to classes in the spring semester. They are planning to go somewhere special for spring break. So here is the question.

 

You are a young fun-loving superhero and you have enough money to pretty much go anywhere you want. Where would you go?

I don't understand, are you saying the players will be going somewhere special for spring break or their characters will?

Re: You've taken over the world. Now what?

I take myself and all the money to a big hole in the ground, have my minions build a big dungeon around us, and then take up guardian positions.

We wait for the heroes to come to us.

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

It would be if Velocity were continually increased... thankfully Terminal Velocity' date=' Held Actions and other Powers may be able to intervene on the poor souls behalf. That would be a very nasty trap.[/quote']

 

I wasn't even thinking of it as a trap. That would be nasty.

 

I was thinking, though, that the Teleport itself would not alter velocity at all. It was just a question of whether, after having effectively fallen 100 feet (passing through the portal ten times), the character would have increased in speed (or passed through the first portal and hit the ground because the Teleport couldn't be Continuous and its Instant activation couldn't reset quick enough for the second use).

Re: Quote of the Week from my gaming group...

"The significant owl hoots in the night."

"Yet many gray lords go sadly to the masterless men."

"Hooray, hooray for the spinster's sister's daughter."

"To the axeman, all supplicants are the same height."

"Yet verily, the rose is within the thorn."

etc., etc.

In the first episode of Sci-Fi's "The Invisible Man", he tries to meet up with an agent in a foreign country by "the usual means". This means, apparently, hanging out in the marketplace with half a ticket of some sort, trying to meet up with the person who has the other half of your ticket. Lounging around there, he spots this guy who is obviously a government agent (tall, well-muscled, wearing a suit). The guy has been eying him, and steps forward to ask if he's looking for someone. So he answers "Yeah, I'm supposed to meet someone here.", and pulls out his ticket. The agent shows an obviously different ticket, and they both look down for several seconds, then uncomfortably glance around for a few seconds, not wanting to look at each other, then the agent saunters off.

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

First part: well' date=' you have to get the Character those 10 Feet upward, unless the Teleport moves them there, or they are already doing a velocity that will put them there and they don't stop or avery in their next Phase... they go through the second portal.[/quote']

 

Think of it like a doorway. You walk through one end, your body immediately emerges on the other. Then extend the doorway into more of a hallway, and cut out the intervening space; you have two doorways, and walking in one will have you walking out of the other, not to the other side of the one you're walking through. Then flip these doorways on their side. That's your portal.

 

I'm thinking you have a Teleport from one Focus to the other, but as your velocity increases (not being reset by Teleporting), you're going to have less and less time passing between Teleports; such an effect could be considered "Continuous", since it happens more than one per Phase or Segment or even action of the hero for the same person. It would also be very difficult, eventually, to intercept the hero and stop his fall.

 

Second part: what's scary about it?

 

I can picture a strafing run with the hero blipping sideways to evade defensive fire, maintaining their general course and heading.

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

4) Teleport does not have an inherent Velocity - you are moving at the same Velocity at the start and end of your Teleport regardless of how far you moved (barring the No Relative Velocty Adder). Therefore Teleport is an Instant Power' date=' it does not have a recurring effect between Phases.[/quote']

 

So what happens when I set up a flat portal with its open end up, so it dumps out anything going through it on the other side, and I put the second portal ten feet above it "facing" down?

 

I am Flying at 10"/Phase' date=' During my Next Phase I Full Move Teleport 12" to my Left, by my facing and Forward Velocity are still Flight 10"/Phase - because I have not deactivated my Constant Power, it is still "in effect."[/quote']

 

That's scary.

Re: Heat of the Moment

I have no idea. I've touched 4th' date=' but that's when it was superheroey and didn't really appeal to me. 5th Rev. appeals to me because it doesn't pretend to be anything other than a template.[/quote']

 

I have an all-in-one bundled copy; Champions (the Super Role-Playing Game) and HERO System Rules.

 

In the index they appear to be separate, just two books in one cover.

Re: Heat of the Moment

AH-HA. Okay' date=' let me simplify this! If you don't own the book, that's creating some of the confusion. If you own the book (the revised rules)[/quote']

 

I've got 4th Edition . . .

 

Does that count?

 

Each one presents an RP challenge for the player' date=' and the system automatically rewards him for taking it - they get points back to flesh out their concept.[/quote']

 

This sounded outright cool for a minute, before I realized you meant the points given during character creation for taking the disadvantage. I thought for a moment you meant that disad would give them points every time they made a decision in its favor, which would be pretty damn cool

 

The player then controls the option and rolls the bones. In effect, he has too, because the psych lim says he can't simply 'make a choice' but has to go with the contract of the character sheet.

 

So yes. That exists. Is that what you're looking for, or something else?

 

I'm actually thinking of a slightly broader concept, one which wouldn't require the player to stat their character's entire personality (basically, reducing it to numbers, which, though I believe can be done in approximations {to indicate probability for large groups of people}, is a daunting task at best when it comes to the finer points of any individual). I'd like a "conflict" to be recognized from more than just what is written down on the character sheet and gives them points; I want it to include anything that is known about the character.

 

I like the "points in game", it nicely reflects the "tagline" system in The Dying Earth (players would draw 1-3 taglines from a hat when the game began, then earn experience in-game for using them in an appropriate and amusing way). There's not much parallel between working out a way to use a given line in play, and finding a way to make your Disadvantages enter play, but I'll have to think about this one.

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

That would be simple enough to do - it'd be the same model as a Displacer Beast' date=' you'd just tie it to Images, or improve the character's DCV, Only After Teleporting, Only vs. Sight Group or some such since a Blind Fighter or a Telepath using their brain as a targeting sense won't be fooled. Then as the SFX of the +DCV it's an 'after-image.'[/quote']

 

I was thinking of Linking an Image to it, yeah. I like the "Only vs. Sight Group" too, I hadn't thought of that. Martial artists who can sense air vibrations from nearby movement (ranged sense of touch) should be able to say "Hey, wait a minute - if this guy's moving so fast, how come I didn't feel the air being displaced from his path?" Come to which, does Teleport by itself displace air from the destination and become audible from the air rushing in to fill the origin? If the Teleport has the character exchange places with the air at the destination point, what happens if one or both is a pressurized environment and they have different levels of air pressure?

 

I think I'll go think about something simple like "Images, Smell/Taste Group only" to reflect a spell that improves the bland taste of travel fare.

Re: Need Clarification: Extra-Dimensional Movement

Since you can use XDM to teleport anywhere in a given dimension... really Teleport could never hope to compete' date=' being restricted by distances (Mega-scale, or otherwise). What we need, seriously, is a Universal Scale Advantage, that can be applied to Teleportation and other Powers, (like Detects), which gives them the scope and range of the entire Universe.[/quote']

 

Before reading the book, I just assumed that there was such a thing. It made so much sense, even with what little I knew of the game, to have one.