Robyn

This thread is to ask if anyone else out there has ever tried to build something, done it in an incredibly overcomplicated way, and then realized later that there was a much simpler way to achieve it. If you have, and think it's an understandable mistake, please share the details so I (and others) may be able to avoid such easy-to-commit mistakes in the future.

For example; when I still hadn't seen an actual copy of the rolebook, and was just working off of a dimly growing understanding of how the system was structured, I wanted to design a power that would let my character fire a lump of solid (if gel-like) knockout chemical at an opponent, gently enough that they might not feel it (and wouldn't die from the attack), but which would then be absorbed through the skin and dissolve afterward, leaving no traces behind. This would be for infiltration missions and non-lethal takedowns. But, all I had to work with was his existing ranged attack, which was an RKA that, by its nature, usually did more Stun than Body; so, I put the Limitation "Does No Body" on it, and then realized that it still wouldn't be guaranteed of getting through their PD to affect them. At first I experimented with making the attack obscenely powerful, but then I realized that, since after running out of Stun you take Body, the attack would still be unbalanced (either too weak or too powerful for everyone I wanted to use it against - not "unbalanced" in the sense of game mechanics). I reset it to a handful of d6's (starting to wonder how badly the Stun Multiplier could throw things off), and added No Normal Defense.

At this point I had a NND RKA (Does No Body), and my GM (not McCoy, then) said "No.", and quite rightly considering what I was doing. It just wasn't what I was trying to do, and it hadn't occurred to me that the HERO system might be simple enough to allow for it without, well, using the exact powers and advantages and limitations I had already seen to build an equivalent.

[The incredibly simple way of doing this? 1d6 Stun Drain, Ranged attack. Maybe with the Recovery moved a few rows down on the Time chart, to ensure the guards wouldn't wake up for a few hours. Doh.]

Re: WWYCD: Omelas

Oh' date=' and not to be argumentative. True, you cant stop all the suffering and crime. But it doesnt stop the superhero from trying. If you come across suffering you try to stop it.[/quote']

 

Interesting thoughts:

 

Was the person who created Omelas, then, a superhero?

 

They came across suffering. They tried to stop it. Their solution was a bit more convoluted than simply "find the person responsible and stop them", but perhaps they realized that no single person was responsible; since it was the actions of every single person in the city that led to this suffering, any solution had to address them all collectively.

 

An interesting side point from this - not every situation can be reduced to a single person, or even group of people, on whom to place (the) blame. If the need to act is a compulsion, will the PC create a villain, finding someone to blame, a scapegoat to be an outlet for the evil in the world? And, if they do, how is this different from the person who created Omelas, finding an innocent child to suffer?

 

I think the reason it was a child, and had to be one of the citizens, was to present the dilemma of an innocent victim - when heroes try to intervene, it's not heroic (I speculate) unless they are not only saving a good person, but only hurting a bad person. This is why the person who made the original deal to create the city of Omelas wouldn't be considered a hero; instead of hurting an evil person to save the city, they hurt someone who was, without question, good. This is too much like the decisions that face us in daily life (help one good person, or another) to be easily answered. It perhaps says something about the heroic spirit, or rather, the spirit in games we play, that we require a villainous aspect to be present in any of our "victims" to fulfill the heroic conditions.

 

This is getting out of order and a bit confusing, so I'll stop here for the night. Which, by the way, is late.

Re: Duplication Squared

I don't follow you. I thought you pay for a Duplicate worth what the base character is' date=' minus the cost paid for the Duplication. If you pay for a Duplicate exactly equal to the character, including the Duplication, the Duplicate has it and can use it. Doing otherwise is like making the Duplicate pay for having the base character's EB but not getting to use it.[/quote']

 

Mind that I'm just going from the 4th Edition book here, 5th might have cleared this up a bit, but the power description doesn't actually state that your Duplicate is paying for your Duplication power; that would be an inference at best. What the power actually says is that:

 

The maximum total points the second and succeeding forms can each have is equal to the total points in the base form, minus the Duplication cost.

 

To me, this means that you can't have a Duplicate which is more powerful than the original form; this interpretation is echoed down in "Duplication Cost", which reads "No form can have more total points than the total points of the base character minus the costs for Duplication." Unlike with Multiform, there is no option for paying additional points to bypass this restriction.

 

If you have a 300-point character, and pay 50 other points for a single other Duplicate, that Duplicate will have (300 - 50 = 250) points; and your main character will have, other than Duplication, only 250 points worth of powers, skills, etcetera. But the Duplicate doesn't automatically receive Duplication, and if you wanted to give them that power, you would have to spend part of their 250 points on it. You can't pay for a Duplicate "exactly equal to the character, including Duplication", because the moment you pay for a new form off the first branch (still costing 2/5 with a minimum of 20, I believe, since only your main form has already taken Duplication before, the 2nd form hasn't yet), your main form is "300 points with 50 on Duplication" and your secondary form is "20+ on Duplication with 230 or less on other powers". Doing otherwise is like paying for the power once and letting other characters use it for free (good with an Independent Focus, not so good here).

 

So, basically, what you said, with a few twists

Re: WWYCD: Omelas

Yes you can. the evil is implicit: you guarantee one individual to have their freedom taken away' date=' their life utterly destroyed. One person is singled out, unfairly, no due process, no wrong on their part--so that others may benefit.[/quote']

 

Umm . . . of course that person hasn't done anything wrong, that's part of the system. When everyone is without sin, you must pick someone arbitrarily.

 

My character, Kaja, a druid, would be intrigued by the magical spell, and seek to learn as much about it as he could, with an eye to replicating it (possibly with modifications, of course) elsewhere. He'd also send a report to his superiors, requesting assistance, and stay in the city either until he'd learned everything there was to learn (not just everything he could learn; that's why he'd ask for assistance), or he failed to receive a response, in which case (of the latter) he'd leave the city and try to get in touch with them again, hoping he could find the place again.

 

I'm amazed noone else had a similar response. It's like the Active Heroic Mindset: the determination to classify each and every single thing you come across as Good or Evil, black or white, so you can fit it into the two simple categories that govern your life: "Do I hit this or not?" I oversimplify, but not with the personal AOE - every answer I've seen so far, and I apologize if I've missed any, has listed the character's thoughts and motivations and history to justify whatever choices they made. Even if your PC's wouldn't be inclined to research the city itself further, are they so self-righteous that they would assume their own judgement to be right on this one, instead of acknowledging that it was a complicated situation and contacting a trusted, experienced NPC for advice?

 

Moving farther away from answers to the original question posted, and more into the realm of (this thread's) debate, I see many of the people who replied here twisting in the wind on the rope of this false dilemma; for example, a question posed in early college ethics is "A man threatens to shoot (and kill) two of your friends, unless you select one to die." You are not evil for making such a choice (sometimes known as "the magician's choice", to give an audience the appearance of affecting the outcome, when in fact you then respond with "Very well, by your choice shall this sheep be spared!" or "By your words has this pig been doomed!"), the evil lies in the existence of such a choice. But since evil, as we popularly consider it, lies only in human choices (a hurricane, for instance, or tornado, would be considered "a force of nature", not "evil"), we can only deem the resulting choice evil if it was brought about by a human agency - which, in this specific example, it was; the evil entity is the man that forced such a choice upon us. Thankfully, the universe is generally not a hostile one; in the absence of human factors, we are usually not confronted with such a decision.

 

I would be curious about the change to existing answers if the order of the posted situation were reversed; that is, instead of looking at the situation as something that already exists, what if we took it from the perspective of the human that created the city? This fundamentally alters the certainty versus uncertainty of the whole equation; now, instead of looking at the certainty of rescuing a child and the possibility that additional suffering may result, you are looking at the very definite, very real, happening right now suffering of many children, not to mention adults and others, within your city. For all your power as superheroes, you cannot stop all of it - this is a fact. You know it, from personal experience. Now, rating the level of suffering from 1 to 10, and with more than one child at each level, you have the option of forcing a child to suffer at, say, a 6. Maybe a 7. One child, though. If you have any personal doubts about the follow-through, rest assured that results are supposed to be immediate, and if there aren't any, you can immediately cease the lone child's suffering. WWYCD?

 

Another variation, that may call into play the heroic side of ourselves - if you are the stowaway on that vessel, to switch to another example, but you are in the cargo hold, and neither you nor the pilot can travel to each other (nor can the pilot pump the air out from you), would you choose to sacrifice yourself so that the pilot, and millions of people, could live?

 

(I'm reminded of the old Sword and Sorceress story, or something from a compilation anyway, where the devil shows up to a girl's family in disguise, and secretly reveals to her that, by the time the night is out, she must select the life of one of those there for him to take. If she does not, he will kill her entire family. At the end of the night, she turns to him and swallows, and says: "I've chosen. Take your own life.")

Susan plopped down on her bed with a sigh. She was just zoning out when the voice of her best friend and college roommate, Lily, jolted her back awake with "So, have you decided yet what classes you're going to take this semester?" Turning her head away, Susan mumbled something noncommittal and hoped Lily would take the hint. Instead, her friend walked over and said firmly "Listen, girl. You seriously need to get your *** in gear and figure out what you're going to do with your life. Enough procrastinating. Now, I'm going to go freshen up before my new job interview, and I expect you to have an answer by the time I'm ready to leave."

Susan held back the sigh until she heard Lily close the door to their bathroom. She knew her friend was right; tomorrow was the last day to sign up for classes, and she still had no idea what to select. The problem was that it was just so hard to make a decision; there simply wasn't enough study time in the world to learn how to do everything she wanted to achieve in life, and Susan couldn't bring herself to abandon any of her dreams, even to pursue others. Speaking of which . . . rolling back over, Susan let her mind drift and began to fantasize again. Maybe, if she could decide which of her visions of the future - all, of course, starring herself as a supremely competent agent - were most enticing, she would know where to commit herself.

"Get off your lazy bum and pick a class, now." ordered a strangely familiar voice. For one startled moment Susan thought she had fallen asleep and missed Lily coming out of the bathroom. But, no, the shower was still on; so, eyes opening, Susan looked over to see, sitting on the bed opposite . . . herself.

Blinking, Susan asked "Who . . . what are you?"

"Why, I'm you, darling - a future version of yourself, that is."

Still taken aback, Susan nonetheless retained enough presence of mind to eye the doppelganger critically and remark "Not very far in my future, from the looks of it."

"Don't be silly," the other Susan immediately snapped, "I'm from farther down the timeline than you can imagine - it's just," she added slyly, "that I've developed immortality, so I stopped aging."

Put off by the harsh tones, Susan's interest was piqued by a mention of immortality. Enough lifetime to study all the things she'd ever wanted to! Not noticing the thin smile of triumph that spread across her double's face, she asked "So why are you - I mean, why am I - I mean, why here? Now?"

"Because something's gone wrong!" The other woman appeared angry again, but more upset, and even worried. "You've heard that, every time we make a choice, an alternate universe is created? Well, that's not entirely true; only the keystones of Time itself, like us, have such an effect, but the most important decision point of your life is right now! And for some reason, at this most critical of crossroads, you're not using your power - and that choice jeapordizes all your futures, including me!"

"Power?" asked Susan, bewildered.

"Yes, power. Since your early childhood you've seen visions of how your life might turn out - I know that, because you're me. What you apparently haven't realized yet is that you are glimpsing actual futures, ways that reality does turn out - or will, if you don't screw it up!"

Susan sat up and glared at the woman sitting across from her. Giving up after a few moments, because it was disconcertingly like staring into a mirror, she retorted anyway: "Hey! I don't care who you are, it doesn't give you the right to speak to me that way!"

The other Susan glared right back, and seemed about to launch into a retaliation when suddenly she sat back, cast her eyes down, and muttered "Reality check, Susan. You are arguing with yourself, here. Get a grip, girl." Looking up, she said apologetically "Look, I'm sorry. Just try to imagine it from my point of view for a minute, allright? Err . . . " she thought about this for a moment. "From our point of view. Imagine that all your fantasies have come true, and you've lived them all out, and it only cost you a fraction of the study time it should have; but then, all of a sudden, it threatens to have all been just a dream, and you're going to wake up back in your college dorm room and none of it will have been real."

"Sounds like my usual day," Susan acknowledged. But despite that, she was intrigued. "You say it's all real?" she wanted to know.

"Exactly." said the other woman in an approving tone. "I've always been fast, haven't I? Now, here's how it works: the fantasies you're having aren't just your imagination, you're seeing yourself in action - the you from an alternate universe, where different choices were made. Your power doesn't extend to just seeing, though - you can reach across and pull yourself through, or propel yourself to an alternate timestream. There's more, but that's the basics of it; and, whenever you need to do something but don't know how to do it, just call for one of your alternate selves to come help out. You're still the star of the show, and you reap all the accolades, but the you that did all the work doesn't stick around to hog any of your glory."

"Wait . . . " said Susan, eyes narrowing; "What's the catch?"

"In return for them helping you out with whatever they've specialized in, you have to help them out from time to time. This means you still have to study, and work hard at it, to master whatever field you choose to approach."

"But what should I specialize in?" Susan wondered, cast back to her original problems.

"That's just the beauty of it!" her double burst out in excitement. "It doesn't matter! The mere act of making a choice will automatically create the parallel universes - timestreams where, altogether, you made every possible choice!"

"So I pick my classes, and then that's it?" Susan asked dubiously.

"One more thing, actually . . . you need the energy of Time to fuel your powers. But don't worry, I've got some here that'll give you a jump-start."

As fascinated as Susan was by all this, she was suddenly wary upon noticing the eager, predatory way that her future self leaned forward during their last exchange. "Umm . . . tell you what, just let me have a few minutes to think about it," she pleaded. "I mean, it's a very big step for me, don't you think?"

"You don't have time." her double insisted. As if on cue, the shower shut off, heralding Lily's imminient emergence from the bathroom. Lowering her voice, Susan's future self whispered urgently "After this, you'll have plenty of time, but you need to make a decision now."

When Lily opened the door and came out, she looked around their room and asked "Did you have someone else in here with you? I thought I heard voices."

Susan answered "No, there's noone else here. It's just me."

Susan's abilities could be imitated by a Variable Skill Pool with a peculiar SFX, but the talk she had with her future self barely gave credit to her full powers. Instead she has Duplication, with several character points "in reserve" (unspent) that may only be used for skills. Any time she wants to do something that she doesn't have the skill(s) for, she makes an Activation Roll to call up one of her duplicates that can do it; on failure, that version of herself is busy right now, and can't come to her aid. (When all of her duplicates' skill selections have been determined, she must wait until she can pay for more of them; until then, the duplicates with those skills are presumed to be "still in training", or being watched too closely to get away even for a few minutes.) If she needs something done that requires more than one skillset, she must call up all the appropriate duplicates. There is also a chance, every hour, that she will be "called up" by one of her alternate selves, and vanish for a while, only to reappear when that task is done [effectively, Extradimensional Movement: Time, No Conscious Control, Random Activation]. Thankfully, she doesn't spend nearly as much time on those side trips as she would, thanks to another of her powers: by spending the chronological energy she has stored up, she can temporarily accelerate the speed at which she moves and thinks (relative to the rest of reality). So, for the accountant Susan, a combination of her extremely high skill levels and this power lets her do another Susan's taxes in just a few minutes (it seems like longer to her, but she only has to leave her own life behind for a few minutes). Nor does she age while she is accomplishing those tasks, or even in her "normal" activities, and this is the true horror of her powers: "Borrowed Time" allows her to Drain the Time from other people, so she's using their life instead of hers. To fuel all of her powers, she must either touch someone to forcibly take their Time, or obtain their consent through trickery or deceit (this is easier than it sounds: how many times have you had someone call you and ask "Pardon me sir, would you mind giving me about five minutes of your time?"). [The base effect is a 3d6 Speed Drain, averaging 10 points; in other words, with each touch, she can subtract 1 from her victim's SPD and add 1 to her own. This might work out better as a Transfer, using the Drain only when she desires to permanently store Time in her END reserve.]

She has also become somewhat addicted to Time; when her future self touched her, she also drained away an unknown portion of Susan's own Time, and teased her with not saying how much. Susan desperately wants to keep stealing other people's Time, if only to keep herself alive, because she doesn't know how long she has left to live. Susan feels cheated by this, and forced to keep shortening the lifespans of other people in order to survive. Currently she feels more like a villain than a hero, though the nonapparent nature of her powers could let her exist as a hero for some time while maintaining secrecy about her vampiric needs - but her guilt will always haunt her. Susan isn't sure how she feels about her own existence, for that matter - and part of her hopes that, someday, she will grow powerful enough to travel back through Time and, somehow, prevent herself from ever having existed.

Notes on play: this is a good character to introduce to a new campaign with a GM you don't know, but who claims to be running a low-combat game. In such a game, the character is actually fairly low-powered; it's when the GM throws the first dangerous fight at Susan, that you should say "Okay, she summons up all her duplicates and they start draining Speed." Naturally the GM will laugh, since you didn't have enough points left after all of Susan's duplicates to buy a serious attack, and his NPC is built like a tank. That's when you pull out all the stops, and say "My reserve points, the ones that would have been used for additional skill levels with age? I'm using 5 of them to buy Coordinated Attack."

Re: Duplication Squared

Lot more cost effective to just buy more duplicates in the original power.

I was wondering about that. I gave it a shot last night and the math just gave me a headache even trying.

Re: On Multiform and Potential Abuses Thereof....

If the character multiforms and BECOMES a vehicle' date=' he'll never be able to ride that vehicle. When he's not being the vehicle, the vehicle isn't there, and when the vehicle exists, he doesn't.[/quote']

 

I don't know about this one. If he's taking it as a vehicle construct, by the game mechanics, then yes; but it should be possible to make, say, a horse PC, and say that another PC can ride on your back. Maybe a "no hands" carry if based on strength? Your typical horse would have hooves, no real grasping power, but it could "lift" by getting its back under something, so that's not any ability beyond what the stat inherently gives it.

 

If it were a tank, I would call it Growth to occupy a few hexes, Hole In The Middle to have a hollow body, SFX "metal (non-organic)" with high levels of PD/ED that protect those inside as well - not sure how to do that last one, though.

 

He couldn't get the 1/5 reduction for building a tank multiform, though.

Re: brainstorming

Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions? Warnings?

Just the same idea as when I asked you about playing a much older PC who could "train" the others and would want to guide the group away from combat:

Allow the PC's to take additional Combat Levels only with the "Accidental Activation" limitation; they can buy this off only in peaceful areas, over time. In other areas, their companions know better than to touch them.

Re: On Multiform and Potential Abuses Thereof....

But (first) he's got Multiform slated in a Multi-power. I don't have *too* many problems with that' date=' but it's got me started in the direction of 'uhm....'[/quote']

 

Sounds doable on the surface. At first I thought he should take a 0-point Limitation "cannot put multipower point reserve into more than one Multiform slot" (not worth any points because that's already part of Multiform), but then I realized that, depending on how long it takes to switch between slots in his Multipower, he might not want to take an extra few actions switching back to his normal form, switching his Multipower, and switching back into a different other form (especially in combat). The big no-no to me is "What happens when you try to move points away from the Multipower slot that's directly enabling you to have your current Multiform?". Is it even possible?

 

The bigger problem is how he set *up* his multi-forms. Four of them are okay. His 'normal' form (not using one of his magical weapons)' date=' two that use magical weapons, and one for a hawk-form he can adopt. That's just dandy, no problem in the least.[/quote']

 

Actually, that's worse - I'm assuming that these two forms with "magical weapons" take them as a Focus? What happens when someone else "accesses" (i.e., takes) those Focuses? Does he become unable to switch back? Does he simply lose those points in the Multiform from then on? If he can restore them simply by switching back and forth, then it doesn't make sense to allow him the Focus Limitation.

 

The problem is that his other three forms are basically the barehanded form (with a bit of a reduction to his VPP for magic) and a Vehicle of some sort.

 

I don't have time to check the Vehicle rules this morning, but if these also fall under the same rules as a Focus, they're a bit of the same problem; what does it take to "own" a vehicle, more so than the vehicle can be said to own itself? Is he a horse that can be equipped with the painful, cruel gear that has been used in the past to restrain and control horses? Is simply riding him, and using minions to always have someone "on board" enough to perpetually enslave him, keeping him from ever escaping?

 

True, if he has "control" of where the vehicle goes, keeping him in that form could be difficult. But I'm sure the villain could easily enough design a Focus to inflict pain (and eventual death) on the PC for failing to obey.

Can your Duplicates also take the power Duplication?

And can their duplicates also . . . eh, you get the idea.

Re: characters from the "nightside"

Larry Oblivion' date=' intelligent zombie, with superspeed built with focus wand.[/quote']

 

I'm not sure speed alone would do it. Since his wand freezes time, perhaps an AOE Speed Drain with No Visible Power Effect? Noone can do anything, but they don't notice it happening.

 

In the latest book he danced around a monster, only appearing for seconds in between uses; the duration itself doesn't present a conversion problem, it's the "not enough time to respond before he activates it again" that would require something like, hmm, the ability to partially ease back on the Drain? I think that comes with the power, actually. He could give people back 1 speed only, until he could see what they were doing (or half a point of speed, so they couldn't even attack him), then use it again.

 

Giving him superspeed would almost be pointless then, except for the possibility that reinforcements could arrive in the time he took to do things. It was never really specified whether time froze for the rest of the world, too, outside his encounters.

Re: Comprehensive Pulp Resources List

The Dungeon, books 1-6 (by Philip Jose Farmer)

The Plutonium Blonde (by John Zakour & Lawrence Ganem), also its sequel The Doomsday Brunette

All are in that style. There's a "New Adventures [of]" (Bernice Summerfield) series for the Dr Who universe, and the book "Down" is very much in that style (as a bonus, if you read it, you can learn the plural form of "prehistoric mole people").

Re: How many points for the Earth? (and everything on it)

Hey, waitaminute...That brings us back to designing the Earth.

 

Quick, call Slartebartfast!!

If we were going to stat Slartebartfast, would we give him the ability to create a planet, or a high enough skill level with "understanding and using the HERO system" to design the Earth with the HERO system? And, if the latter, how high of a skill level should suffice for that?

Re: Self Defeating Powers

Motionless Running: +6" Running (-1' date=' Only when standing still)[/quote']

 

Honorary Strength: +10 STR, (-1/4, not for damage; -1/4, not for lifting/carrying/throwing; -1/4, does not affect PD; -1/4, does not affect Rec; -1/4, does not affect Stun; +1, Invisible Power Effect: all senses), 10 Active Points, 7 Real Points

 

I like this. Just tell me the math is okay?

Re: Self Defeating Powers

How does that rule go again . . . ?

The one where, if there are two ways to do something, you must use the more expensive?

Re: A very strange build for critiquing.

25 - Drug Addiction/Compulsion

Okay, my GM reminded me of what this was: the Drug Addiction/Compulsion affects the wielder, and basically makes them obsessed with the sword - they won't put it down, must use it all the time, will seek to recover it if lost or stolen, etcetera. This explains why the sword is being Hunted by its past wielders, at any rate.

Re: How many points for the Earth? (and everything on it)

Lets see:

Repped for being the first person to seriously try to stat this. We need more lunatics like that (the sky's the limit!, to quote the Tick).

You'd need 6 billion followers' date=' all loyal because (to quote the Tick), that is where they keep their stuff.[/quote']

 

"Landlord: For only a handful of points, you can build a base with grounds that cover the known universe. The Landlord bought it. He owns everything. And for 165 more points, Landlord can have 4 billion loyal followers (that's everyone on Earth)." - Champions (4th Ed. printing, 1989)

 

Granite (I don't have my book here) probably has a def of say 8? Body of 10? So apply mega scale to that to fit what is appropriate to a global AoE.

 

I think the Earth's composition has more iron than granite. About a third, right?

Re: Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign.

Hero Villain doesnt matter. Who are the top 5 most powerful characters in your Campaign. Give a back story on each of them. What makes them part of the top 5?

Well, I would certainly have no problem coming up with 5, but I promised my GM that I would take a look at Hero Central, and I have observed before that the format for my campaign most resembles a PBeM style, if for live table-top play, so I want to keep a few secrets in reserve, in case I can begin running it through that channel. The main problem is that my most interested player HATES the HERO system. But, he's away for college most of the year, so maybe I can use the conversions transparently. So, for now, you get the TWO most powerful NPC's in my campaign.

The Guardian Of Neutrality (aka Guardian of Humanity]

(note that none of this has yet been converted to the HERO system!)

Once a hero (or perhaps a villain; nobody really knows anymore, or if they do remember, they're not telling) who slew the opposition in some conflict of ideals, between how people lived their lives and how others felt they should, he found that no good deed ever goes unpunished: leading the people down his own dark path, he discovered an unavoidable truth.

In the end, his ideal just plain, flat-out didn't work.

Too late, he sought alternatives. Realizing that the foe he'd vanquished was the single largest repository of lore on the ideal that could save them all, and had been until he killed that person, he renounced his former morality and moved on.

But no simple switch of sides, this. He had a larger goal this time: the preservation of humanity itself, that he might never again have to watch a civilization fall through the inspiring actions of some hero or villains. Because, really, simply being a hero struggling to overthrow the tyrant's stranglehold on the people, or a villain trying to introduce some chaos to a lawful populace, guaranteed nothing. Even if the system did work for a while, the gradual shifting of humanity would ensure that a new system would be needed - and it would be costly to work out such a system from scratch. Such was the fate that befell he himself, when, in the end, he learned that no single system lives forever.

Now, he protects heroes and villains alike, ensuring that they will always be around in case they're needed. You ever wonder why the villains keep the hero alive for so long, sometimes gloating about their plans? The heroes are the good guys, they're supposed to catch the bad guys and send them to jail, but the villains? It's because they're terrified of the friggin' Guardian.

Dedicated to the preservation of humanity, the Guardian has lived a long, long time. His main function is to keep people alive - the PC's will have to learn, possibly the hard way, hopefully through the shocked and frightened reactions of NPC's when they propose or attempt killing someone, that they need to avoid killing their enemies. Whenever there is a clash of ideals, the Guardian can be found, and some swear that he can be in more than one place at once.

He calls himself the Guardian of Neutrality, but noone knows why (though many believe it is because he has forsworn both good and evil), so some call him the Guardian of Humanity. In truth, his study of philosophy (both ethics and metaphysics) has led him to believe that the universal balance of good and evil is shifting; the problem is that, hero and villain alike, most people think of themselves as the good guy. The balance of intent is shifting. He would take up the task of restoring this balance himself, but he knows that he is unsuited for it; since he is aware of the good that would be done by such a deed, his intent would ultimately be good. This is the problem which plagues most other villains who have become aware of how evil they are: even in accepting that status, they still do not hold it as their sole purpose, leaving them no different than a vigilante who believes that their end justifies the means. So the Guardian searches for a suitable disciple, one who can comprehend the nature of evil, yet nonetheless embrace it and commit to following it with all their heart, for no ulterior motives, just the love of evil itself.

The Avatar Of Story

"This world is based on rules. Some of them can be bent. Others can be broken."

(Morpheus, "The Matrix")

"Stability, power, freedom. Pick any two."

(the underlying metaphysics of my campaign)

Initially, there was chaos. But, through sheer chance, eventually there was some repetition, giving rise to patterns. Once patterns arose out of chaos, they gained strength. It became easier to channel energy through established patterns, and more difficult to work against them. These patterns were only (on the level) of existence. The fundamental laws of reality.

[some of you may remember Carl Sagan proposing something similar along astronomical lines. If you have sources, I'd appreciate hearing where to look; I've heard the comparison made, but all I've got to go on is myself here.]

Some (derivative) patterns became based on other patterns, relying on those root patterns for their very existence. In the meantime, the first patterns, the ones that had been self-sustaining, were gaining in power. Patterns entwined and formed even higher levels, eventually producing humans, but after combining so many patterns, much power had been lost.

Anyone can still break the established laws, but only if they have enough power.

Those based on many patterns enjoy an increasing freedom of Choice - always approaching "Free Will", and the several patterns they incorporate form a broad foundation; but they're too far away from Chaos to utilize any single pattern. Those embodying a single pattern are backed by the entire strength of that pattern, making them proportionately stable, and their power scales with the intensity of their pattern - but they are trapped by the very nature which defines them. Lastly, the Primal Chaos which underlies all reality swirls in ultimate freedom, and practically IS power, but lacks any stability - it cannot be predicted, it has no pattern.

The Avatar Of Story is the personification of the pattern that has been building ever since the first conscious being decided to tell a story. Humanity, like other high-order pattern forms, incorporates the Pattern of Duplication: there can be more than one of them. Humans have been telling each other stories for a long, long time, and the Avatar of Story has become pretty powerful as a result. It exists for one reason only: to make sure that the best possible story is told. It is one of the forces supporting The Guardian Of Neutrality; for, after all, if someone is killed they can't tell stories anymore, and theirs ends. It is also the primary force keeping the campaign moving forward

It is possible (inevitable) for some of the PC's to begin moving away from humanity. It is, in fact, necessary, by the metaphysical laws of that universe, to shed some of your patterns in order to move closer to Chaos and gain power. Thankfully, humans are built out of a ridiculous number of patterns, so there's plenty of room for variance in power without becoming obviously inhuman.

The idea, though, is that unusual abilities are gained simply by strengthening the appropriate patterns. High ratings in Speed enable the character to bypass such little quirks of physics as, oh, tangible matter. The character blurs when moving, and such petty little details as physical obstructions are no longer a concern.

The whole idea is, when a pattern is strong, when a person has enough powers, they can ignore other patterns.

Some laws can be bent. Others can be broken.

Re: How many points for the Earth? (and everything on it)

Only characters pay for things with points. Unless a player/character is "buying" the earth' date=' it's a moot point.[/quote']

 

Reminds me of the Landlord in that "Are You a Powergamer?" section of the sourcebook. Like "statting" the planet, there are some things that yes, technically, we can do, but really shouldn't

Re: Seeking suggestions on speeding up the Hero System

Use counters. I prefer lots, and lots, of little glass beads (okay, about the size of an M&M). Find different colors for distinction. Use small, transparent plastic tubs and label each with what they are: "Endurance", "Stun", "Body". Move beads into and out of those containers as appropriate. It's easy to tell, at a glance, how much is left to a given person, without knowing exactly how much (well, provided you use the same size tubs, anyway).

It'll be less useful in the HERO system than in Feng Shui (where initiative is rolled and added with speed, and each action/attack requires a given number of initiative points to be spent), but if you're using hit locations (and if you're trying to speed up the HERO system, why are you using hit locations?), you can put beads on each spot to indicate the amount of Body left, perhaps with different colors representing different strengths (like the colors in most FPS games: green for maximum health, yellow for injured but lots of health left, orange for mediocre health, red for one or two points).

Re: Fire portals

Actually' date=' I am planning to go the multiform route. Each element has its own personality. Fire is hot tempered. Air is flighty. Water is very laid back. Earth is very Stalwart, and serious. Each will have some unique power just for them. Like only earth will have entangle.[/quote']

 

But there will still be some overlap, right? Not just one power for each element?

 

Flight sounds like something that only Air would have. Teleport would obviously be limited by the Special Effect of the powers he was using then, so just buy Teleport once with "Variable Special Effect", it'll be cheaper that way, and the "Skill Roll - only with Earth or Fire, half of the Special Effects". Oh. Here's a question - how can he teleport when merely opening a portal there would cause the elemental plane to emerge at his destination? Limitation to the Teleport: only when Element matching Special Effect is also at Destination.

 

Instead of an Activation roll How about a De-activation roll? If he misses it the portal gets wider and something start trying to get thru. Like a fire demon maybe?

 

How about both? He must control it to call forth the element (think of it like poking a hole through the dam, there's a reason the water hasn't burst forth already; those dams are tough), and then he must work separately to force the hole closed. If he misses the activation, he just can't try again for a while; but only with that one Element, he can still try the others. If he misses the deactivation, the portal is still active and he can't try again for a while; this could make it difficult for him to hide his powers, unless you take No Visible Power Effect on the multiform.

 

For the demon, I'm not sure. Maybe something like that if he leaves his powers on for too long? Okay for most fights, but not if he wants to engage in long-term pursuits or just fly around looking for trouble. Also problematic if he fails a few rolls on deactivating his powers in time.

Re: Short Duration Dependencies

The villain Ying must use her pain manipulation powers on someone every hour or she takes 3d6 STUN and 3d6 BODY. How would such a character sleep?

She must use her powers a minimum of every hour, but she uses them more often if she can, because she enjoys it. In her dreams, she tortures people a lot. Sometimes she even uses her powers to do so. Whether it's just the people in her dream that suffer, or she accidentally activates her powers even when "unconscious" and makes someone nearby feel the pain, is unknown.

Of course, I haven't even read the book in question, so I don't know if her Disadvantage is mental or mystical, but it seems a fair way to handle it. Her teammates may wake up (and then wake her up) when it starts happening, and it would be very difficult to keep loved ones in the house nearby for a mundane identity (unless they were masochists), but she could at least sleep through the nights.

The main flaw with this is what happens when she falls too deeply asleep for REM? Unconscious, in holding for transport to a secure facility, but held too long? Oops, just started to die.

Re: Fire portals

The way his powers work is based on the principal that nature hates a vacuum. Open a portal and the element comes shooting out like a jet.

Think of a dam slowly breaking. First a few droplets of water are squeezed out, then those drops become a trickle, then that trickle becomes a flood. Nature abhors a vacuum. This principle works both ways: any portal he opens will seek to widen itself, and those powers may just try to ground themselves through his body!

I would suggest that, to control the rate of flow, he needs to trick the other dimension into thinking that there is no vacuum; just more of itself on the other side. So, to safely open a portal to Fire, he must have some actual flame already present (of course, once he has access to Fire, he can easily create something with which to sustain the illusion). The more of an element he has present, the more of it he can (safely) channel. I'm not sure how to express this in the system, but it would mean he couldn't be able to call on his powers at all times - he would need to "activate" them by opening the portal, and "deactivate" them by closing it. Oh, yes, and if he didn't "deactivate" them before someone knocked him unconscious or separated him from the element that was sustaining that portal and keeping it stable, he would suffer "burnout" as the entire elemental plane tried to pour through him until, like a fuse, his powers shut down!

Teleport is done by moving himself thru the portal to the elemental plane.

I assume he opens two portals in that case, right next to each other, so he only has to exist in the elemental plane for a brief time. I'd call for a Skill Roll to place the portals precisely adjacent to each other, if it was Fire or Earth, otherwise; on failure, he would suffer damage.

I think you might be able to get away with placing everything in a Multipower, even if they did differ; if, let's say, Earth gave you a 2d6 RKA but Fire gave you a 3d6 RKA, you could buy the 2d6 as "only in Fire or Earth" and the extra 1d6 as "only in Fire".

Re: Fire portals

Just one quick thought before lunch:

Here is what I am trying to do: The character is a living portal between our world and the elemental planes. However' date=' he can only consciously access one them at a time.[/quote']

 

Sounds like a Multipower with Variable Special Effects (only 1 of the 4 traditional Elemental Planes, all powers have same Special Effect), unless you want the powers themselves to vary depending on which element he's channeling?

 

I'll think about the rest as I eat and be back with more then.

Re: Knockback Attack

The TK example is cool' date=' if you have martial arts you can use with your TK,[/quote']

 

I like the TK implementation. I saw the thread and went through it first to check if anyone else had suggested that, since it's what my GM recommended when I asked about a Knockback-only attack (I wanted to have a PC who could open up a portal to the middle of the ocean and pour water through it, with pressure proportionate to the depth at which the portal was opened). I think you might be able to buy levels of Martial Arts "only with this power", or would that be a straightforward Link? Or, perhaps an area-of-effect (one hex) TK?