Ninja

2 hours ago, Christopher said:

 

You do not get to add your TK STR to your normal STR. you use either one or the other.

Keep in mind that with 40 STR would cosdt you 4 END to use, 60 AP of Telekinesis (40 TK STR) still cost you 6 END to use.

Point taken about the endurance.

And I mean not add per se but, what's the difference?  If I can "punch" someone across the street with 40 strength why cant I punch someone right in front of me with 40 strength and say it was my fist? Is there a mechanical difference aside from the endurance cost?

Dont some comic book characters have enhanced strength from their telekinesis? Sylar from heroes, cable, Jean grey?

I had a couple more character creation questions if that's cool.   In case I ever get to make another high point value character with special powers. Actually this probably would have been my first choice if I understood the system.

Ok first, I was looking around on this website, what do you guys think of these guidelines for making characters? Do they work for actually play or is this mainly just for converting characters?

http://www.devermore.net/surbrook/herosource/other/adaptions.html

Second, does buying points of strength with telekinesis apply to hand to hand? Say I buy 40 points of telekinetic strength, can I hit in hand to hand with 40 strength? I feel like I should be able to, because if I can pick up a truck at range i should be able to pick it up up close, but not sure how the rules work with that.

My idea was for like a master swordsman who uses mental powers to enhance his abilities, sort of like a darth Vader homage.  Here is the above mentioned persons interpretation of darth Vader http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationsmovie/starwars/darthvader.html

I noticed he used a massive VPP for his telekinesis/force powers.  Why use that over a multipower? Seems like a telekinesis multi power would be much much cheaper.  But I admit I dont really understand how to build powers, or at least cool ones.

Ok, here's what I think I'll bring to the table.  The multipower has nothing in it, but I figure I will add powers to it as I level, and think of things.   I have 2 points from first session to spend anyway.

What does the jury think?

Str 40; Dex 28; Con 25; Int 13; Ego 13; Pre 13; OCV 8; DCV 8; OMCV 1; DMCV 3; Spd 6; PD 10; ED 10; Rec 15; End 50; Body 15; Stun 50; Cost 227

 

Everyman skills are acting,  climbing,  concealment,  deduction,  language, professional skill, paramedics, persuasion,  shadowing, stealth, vehicles.

Skills: Stealth 3; SS: Medicine 3; Acrobatics 3; Breakfall 3; English 2; Power tricks 3

Martial arts: 2 hth dmg classes 8; Martial Disarm 4; Martial strike 4; Martial dodge 4; +4combat skill for all martial arts, large group, 20; Martial throw 3; leg sweep 3; Martial throw 4; KS: Ninjitsu 0

Total skills 66

Powers: Resistant protection 15pd/ed 45; Mental defense 10; Knockback resistance 6; Extra running 8; Extra leaping 8; 60 AP multipower: Ninjitsu, limitation restrainable -1/2 30 points

Cost: 107

 

Total points: 400

@archer

in in your estimation how is the combat sense talent?  It’s expensive, 15 points?  But no penalties for loss of sight.  I’m envisioning dropping a smoke bomb and keeping full stats.

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

I'm not completely sure I understand it in 6e since it might have changed from earlier editions . I missed the DC in your Martial Arts description which I why I didn't count it in earlier but this is how I understand it would work.

 

The maneuver gives you half of a d6 in killing attack which can be boosted to 1d6 with your STR. You can only put in STR to add to the damage up until it doubles the original dice in damage. After that point, adding additional STR does absolutely nothing.

 

The damage classes don't add much very quickly (page 72 of Champions Complete).

+1 DC adds +1 so the attack would be 1d6+1

A +2 DC adds half of a d6 so the attack would be 1.5d6

 

With a 1.5d6 attack, your maximum BODY done would be 9 and maximum STUN would be 27. The average BODY would be around 5 and average STUN of 15 (and that average damage would do zero damage to the 5PD of a brick wall, for example, while hitting it with your Martial Strike would overcome the wall's defense and go on to do 5 BODY of damage on average).

 

Now if I'm wrong about when the STR is considered and the .5d6 from the DC adds directly to the base attack of .5d6, that would give the attack 1d6 (or up to 2d6 when adding your STR).

 

Either of those doesn't seem like it's worth the points, especially when you are considering a ninja multipower where you could straight up use those points to buy a slot with a bigger killing attack than the maneuver would give you.

 

(Of course, I could be completely misunderstanding how killing attacks work in which case, anyone feel free to correct me where wrong.)

 

 

Fun is perfectly fine, that's sort of the point when you get beyond "my character is so incapable of doing anything that I'm continually frustrated" (and you are far beyond that point, in my opinion).

 

I'm a fan of Martial Grab when I have the points. As for Martial Escape, your character has a fairly high STR to start with so I don't see a huge need there. For that matter, if you have a high enough OCV, you don't really "need" Martial Grab.

 

But considering you seem to want so many levels invested into Martial Arts, you might just want to buy all your maneuvers up front. It's often easier to convince a picky GM to let you buy an extra DC or extra level than it is to get him to agree to letting you buy an extra maneuver.

 

Or alternatively, you could buy levels in all hand-to-hand combat rather buying levels in your Martial Arts. That'd let you move levels over into regular grab, regular block, regular disarm, improvised hand to hand weapons like swinging a car at the bad guy, etc. The levels would be more expensive so you couldn't afford as many at the first but you might make up the value through the extra flexibility.

 

I only did it that way because I thought it was more efficient, I could obviously be completely wrong.  +4 to martial arts for 20 or +3 to all hand to hand for 24?

i was kind of thinking as I leveled I’d buy more multipowers and stick to the maneuvers I started with.  Maybe that’s a poor choice.  Aside from the ones you listed as must haves, dodge, martial strike, defensive strike, leg sweep, how would you rank the others?

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

 

Exactly right. I used the "u" to designate the fixed slot rather than the "f" which is used in Champions Complete because I'm old and forgot they changed it from one letter to the other.

 

If you buy the running and leaping separately, you could in theory do a half move as Running then use the rest of your phase as a half move of Leaping. When you buy them together in a multipower, you are getting one or the other on each of your phases. You are getting a large break on the cost by giving up some flexibility in some cases which hopefully wouldn't come up often: your Running without using the multipower has a half move of 6 meters while your half move with the multipower would be 10m. How often would not having access to that extra 4m half move of Running screw you over in the hopefully rare cases when you might want to Run and Leap in the same phase? Then compare that to the number of points a multipower would save you and what you could spend those point on.

 

For me, the answer always comes out that I'd rather have the advantages of the multipower when it comes to movement.

 

====

 

I didn't mention it earlier but when building your character, you should consider versatility, synergy, and whether you want to take your character in unexpected directions.

 

For example, I noticed your character had no enhanced senses of any sort which could be problematic since martial artist characters often operate in darkness. I suggested Defense Manuevers I and II but you could go beyond that with one of the enhanced vision powers.

I thought about buying enhanced perception, hearing, or darkvision.  Wasn’t sure how often it would come up.  I’d be the only stealthy one I think.

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

If you wanted to go with the Swimming route in a movement multipower, your character could be very effective underwater if he had some Life Support to go with it. And Ultraviolet Perception works well underwater.

 

You could weave those ideas together by doing something along the lines of

 

2 Life Support - Safe Environment: high pressure and intense cold (OIF costume)

2 Life Support - Expanded Breathing: underwater (OAF high-tech facemask which filters oxygen out of the water)

2 Ultraviolet Perception (OAF goggles)

1 Transportation Familiarity: SCUBA (this completely eliminates underwater fighting penalties)

 

You spend 7 points and add a whole new dimension to your character. Villains looking at you can tell your costume does something special but most probably couldn't figure out what it does without close examination, which gives them something else to consider when confronting you (and something else to do if they capture you other than torturing you, "gotta get that costume off before he wakes up"). The facemask lets you breath underwater but for all most people know, it could protect you from gas attacks as well so they might not choose to hit you with their area of effect NND gas attack which is foiled with a simple gas mask.

That’s a cool idea.

1 hour ago, Christopher said:

You got it right and the other poster might have overlooked the STR adding. Or maybe you wrote it up so STR does not add by accident?

 

A 1D6 KA (Killing Damage Attack) has 3 DC

A 3D6 Blast or HTH attack (normal damage attack) has 3 DC

A 4D6 HTH Attack, Armor Piercing (+1/4) has 5 DC. The AP advantage is a "Advantage that affects DC calculation"

 

40 STR would add 8 DC to that (not to Blast, RKA and "No STR bonus" attacks of course). Wich is then reverted back into dice, depending on the advantages.

 

Only simple way of looking at it is:
You got 8 DC from STR. Melee Attacks add their DC and Advantages into the mix.

 

1D6 HKA and 40 STR would be 11 DC or a 3.5D6 HKA.

So the martial arts maneuver killing strike is 1/2 D6, plus 2 dc that I bought.  It says adds strength as a hka, so one dmg class per 5 points.  40 strength, so 8 DC, so +10 in total?  Why isn’t that 3d6?  Guess I’m confused.  But that for 4 points.

Is is the thing about not being able to increase damage past double accurate or is that from older edition?

vs a killing attack power.  30 points would get 2d6, plus 1d6 per 15 points of strength,  so 8 DC?  So 4.5 D6?

then divide the cost by 10 to put in multipower and that’s 3 points?  So buying a killing attack through powers is more efficient than through martial arts?  Only downside being it’s part of a multipower, and I can’t use my  +4 martial arts skill?

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

1 hour ago, archer said:

 

From the good start on a build which you have at this point, you get into a lot of personal preference...so I'll just express some personal preferences and you can take them for what you will.

 

I'm not really seeing what the 18 EGO is getting you unless you are planning on the character having some crippling psychological complications which you are going to need to overcome every session. I usually don't buy it up that high unless it's for a mentalist.

 

I think I bought it for defense against mentalists?  I just liked the idea of being strong willed.

Quote

 

Considering your high STR, a 1d6 Killing Strike isn't going to mean much to your character and I think you'd end up never using it. I'd much prefer to spend those points toward a Defensive Strike which is going to be useful basically any time your character is slugging it out toe-to-toe. I've played high STR characters without much beyond Martial Dodge, Defensive Strike, Martial Strike, and Legsweep and have been perfectly fine (i.e. those to be the core Martial arts maneuvers I end up using frequently and the rest are window dressing which comes in handy on the rare occasion).

 I’m not 100% sure I understand how dmg classes vs d6’s work, but I was under the impression they added to that.  So with 40 strength and 2 dmg classes from martial arts wouldn’t it be more like 3 or 4 d6 dmg killing attack?

Martial throw just seems fun.  I was wondering if I’d miss martial grab or escape if I didn’t take it.

i took passing strike for 3 reasons, was envisioning it as a flying kick, seemed cool.  Seems like move through does a lot of damage?  And was planning of buying swinging with my ninjitsu multipower, simulating grappling hook, and figured a fast moving swinging flying kick would be cool? Maybe it would never work I dunno.

Quote

 

The English language skill should be free in the everyman skills (saving you 4 points). Or if English isn't your native language, your native language should be listed in your everyman skills and you pay for knowing English.

So English is second language, so I played 3 to be fluent + 1 because it’s unrelated language.  

Quote

 

Instead of paying 8 each for Running and Leaping, you could put them into a multipower. For example:

 

8 Multipower - Try keeping up with me (8 active points)

1u Running +8

1u Leaping +16

 

That takes your cost down from 16 to 10. You could take those points and spend them elsewhere or you could increase the size of the multipower, increase the number of movement power slots, and/or play with some advantages. For example for 15 points you could get:

 

12 Multipower - Try keeping up with me (12 active points)

1u Running +8 (20 total) (0 END cost on total running +1/2)

1u Leaping +16 (20 total) (0 END cost on total leaping +1/2)

1u Swimming +16 (20 total) (0 END cost on total swimming +1/2)

 

In that example, you'd be saving a point, adding Swimming, and fixing some of your END problems by having all your movement at 0 END.

I’m not sure I understand how the math is working for the multipower.  Are you buying 8 for the multipower, then 8 points for running, bought as a fixed power so /10 makes it cost 1 point? Same for the jumping.  Does that then mean I can only either run fast or jump high in the same turn but I can’t do both at the same time?

6 hours ago, Christopher said:

In particular this limitation is a replacement for the "Elemental Controls" wich were a 3rd Framework option in 5E and earlier.

Stuff like "Kryptonian Powers, -1/4" with enemies building powers to "Drain Kryptonian Powers". Or even stuff like "Physical Complication: Red Sunlight causes drain on Kryptonian powers"

I got the idea when I saw a build someone did of Luke cage.  All his stats were unified powers and strength had decreased endurance.  

But out you guys bring up good points.  I’ll just skip that idea.

Oh, also as a curiosity, if I wanted to I could put my increased strength, speed, defenses etc into a unified power, and call it like enhanced mutant physiology, and get back 1/4 points?  

Ok I think I’m zeroing in on this.  Say I go:

Str 40; Dex 23; Con 25; Int 18; Ego 18; Pre 18; OCV 8; DCV 8; OMCV 1; DMCV 3; Spd 6; PD 10; ED 10; Rec 15; End 50; Body 15; Stun 50; Cost 232

 

Everyman skills are acting,  climbing,  concealment,  deduction,  language, professional skill, paramedics, persuasion,  shadowing, stealth, vehicles.

Skills: Stealth 3; Analyze fighting style 3; Acrobatics 3; Breakfall 3; Conversation 3; Persuasion 3; Climbing 3; English 4

Martial arts: 2 hth dmg classes 8; Killing strike 4; Martial strike 4; Martial dodge 4; +4combat skill for all martial arts, large group, 20; passing strike 5; leg sweep 3; Martial throw 4

Total skills 77

Powers: Resistant protection 15pd/ed 45; Mental defense 10; Extra running 8; Extra leaping 8

Cost: 71

 

Total points: 380

That leaves me 20 points to buy a “Ninjitsu” multipower.  Now if I’m understanding this right, I can use limitations to add more points?  So say I take Restrainable -1/2; that means I can’t switch powers if I’m restrained,  but now I have a 40 point multipower pool.  Then as I gain more CP I can add powers to it for like 1-4 points after I divide the cost by 10?  And if I can think up one more limitation I can get that pool to 60 points?

I might need to change my skills around a bit I don’t know if they fairly reflect a normal persons expertise, I may be cheating.

Also, my Martial arts combat skill levels, +4, they won’t apply if I use an action not in my martial arts, like a normal throw or grab right?

Howd I do?

1 hour ago, sentry0 said:

 

Could be cleared with a KS: Chinese Healing or other medical type skills.

Sounds perfect thanks, as long as he’s cool with it.  How does it work though? To escape normally?  Is the entangled character able to attack it themselves, even though they are restrained?  If not, does that also mean I can take the no defense limitation?  And they maybe put a time limitation on it to make it more fair?  Say 20 minutes or an hour?

edit for poor reading comprehension.  So apparently the restrained target doesn’t have to roll to hit, so they just get to make a strength damage roll against it each turn?  Until they do enough body damage?  Almost doesn’t seem worth it now, I don’t know if I’ll be able to buy enough body to make it worth it.

if it’s in a multi power, say a 50 point one, the “active power” limit is the points before the limitations?  So I’d only be able to have like 2d6 body, (20 x (1+1 for the cannot be targeted) would make that 40 active points?

16 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

Your marital art needs some adjusting.  The martial strike and offensive strike are very similar maneuvers.  Both give a bonus to DCV and damage.  A better combination would be fast strike and offensive strike.  You use your fast strike on fast hard to hit targets that don’t do a lot of damage.  The offensive strike is used on targets that are easy to hit but soak up damage.  You may also want to include a martial dodge to use vs ranged attacks.  Other maneuvers would also allow you to do more than just hit your target.

 

Also consider dropping your OCV and DCV by 2 and picking up 4 more skill levels.  This will allow you greater flexibility to adjust to the situation.  That way you can adjust your combat values to adjust to the situation.  For example if you are fighting something that is hard to hit, but does not do much damage you can boost your OCV to be able hit them.  If on the other hand you are fighting something that will do a lot of damage to you, you can boost your DCV to avoid being hit.  If you do like I suggested and pick up a martial dodge you can really pump up your DCV to extremely high levels.    

Ok so I changed to include martial dodge.  I cannot take fast strike, it’s not in the champions complete book.  How is leg sweep?  It gives +2 ocv.  Can that fill that niche?  What are you opinions on the martial throw/escape/passing attack skills?

Can someone help me understand entangle?  It seems I can use it to represent a limb strike or like a pressure point attack.  Take the cannot be targeted advantage and it’s like being paralyzed.  But how would the other person remove it, I imagine they can’t attack it if their limbs are immobilized.  Then it says I have to list one common way to get out of it.  What would be a normal way to escape a dead limb?

7 hours ago, Christopher said:

A good figure to keep in mind for attacks is the Damage classes/Active Point Limits. Around 12 DC/60 AP is the cap. A usual 400 Point super can do that +4 DC during a Haymaker (wich is a dangerous and hard to hit maneuver).

 

Bricks get that by having 60 STR (or close to it). Wich translates in 12 DC punches. And also allows stuff like grabs that are hard to break out of.

Blasters have it by having 12 DC Blasts.

Martial Artists get more of their DC from Maneuvers and Martial Arts DC's then raw STR.

 

You can totally shift a Brick towards Martial Artist. Just take away some STR and replaced it with Martial Arts.

 

I knew about the 12d6 average for 400 points, think I read it in a forum post somewhere.  I did not think if 60 point power limits, kind of a bummer, lol.  I was thinking up a telekinetic if I ever played again and wanted to buy 60 points of telekinetic strength.  But that kills that idea, haha.

So here's is where I'm at now, basically doing what you and some other people have suggested.

Str 40; Dex 23; Con 25; Int 18; Ego 18; Pre 18; OCV 9; DCV 9; OMCV 1; DMCV 3; Spd 6; PD 10; ED 10; Rec 15; End 50; Body 15; Stun 50; Cost 242

Everyman skills are acting,  climbing,  concealment,  deduction,  language, professional skill, paramedics, persuasion,  shadowing, stealth, vehicles.

Skills: Stealth 3; Analyze fighting style 3; Acrobatics 3; Breakfall 3; Conversation 3; Persuasion 3; Climbing 3; English 4

Martial arts: 2 hth dmg classes 8; Killing strike 4; Martial strike 4; Offensive strike 5; +2 combat skill for all martial arts, large group, 10.

Total skills 56

Powers: Resistant protection 15pd/ed 45; Mentsl defense 10; Extra running 8; Extra leaping 8

Cost: 71

Total points: 369

What I'm considering with the remaining 30 points is buying a multipower.  Or buying more combat skill levels.  Things I would put in multipower are shuriken throws(ranged killing attack using strength), clinging, invisibility,  image projection(like a mirror image), enhanced senses.  If I'm understanding right these things will cost like 1-5 points each after I buy multipower.

Things I wanted but didnt buy: coordinated attack,  more martial maneuvers(martial throw, martial escape, martial grab) more combat skill levels, a bigger multipower pool.

Also wondering if it's better to lower OCV/DCV to 8 and buy 2 more combat skill levels.

Just to throw it out there in also tried to use this as a guide http://surbrook.devermore.net/herosource/other/creating_hero_characters.html.

Seems to put me at the lower end of defenses and endurance based on that site.

Also im going by the bad guys we fought, their brick was OCV/DCV 9 with 60 strength and like 5 speed.  So when  I originally made the character I was using that as campaign average.  I may be wrong.

What do you guys think? @Lucius @sentry0

Everyone in this thread had been super helpful.  Thanks so much for the replies.

@Lucius That does clear some stuff up, also still leaves me with more questions, haha.  So that's interesting about multi power, I will have to look into it more.  I'll probably actually have to make a few to understand it.

I really like that desolidification idea,  that's really cool.  Here are some other ideas I came up with quick, not sure what's good or what works:

-Invisibility or chameleon like blending.  Maybe a smoke bomb

-Using duplication to make clones like a mirror image type ability.  Have the images be glass cannons or basically nothing but a distraction. 

-a huge speed boosting ability

- the before mentioned disable, maybe using entangle to accomplish it.  Maybe clinging for climbing and running on walls.

Now having said all this, and it being super fun trying to think of new ninja abilities, I want to make sure I'm staying in the spirit of the campaign and go too far off the deep end of ninja magic, as super tempting as it is for me.

The theme of the campaign is emerging powers, normal people who have developed super human abilities.  That was the source of my original idea for super strength and speed.  I suppose I could always make my power duplication or invisibility or something,  and the enhanced stats are just part of the package.   But I want to stay on theme.

I was thinking of using the generic super soldier template sentry posted earlier in this thread.  It has lower defenses than I originally envisioned, but I can see how it's more balanced.  And it leaves me 40 points to make a multi power.  Probably not enough though.

Also as an aside the reason my original build had mental defense was because I took 23 dmg from a mentalist in one hit first time i played.  I was like yikes.

7 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

Lucius covered how the movement and SPD work pretty well.  About the only thing I would add on this subject is about REC.  When you get a Recovery you add the amount of your REC stat back to your END and STUN totally up to your maximum of that STAT.  There are two times you can take a recovery.  The first is after segment 12, but before segment 1 of the next turn.  This is referred to as POST 12 Recovery. Normally everybody gets it at the same time without doing anything.  The second is when you take a recovery in combat.  When you do this you drop to 0 DCV so unless no one can attack you this can be dangerous.  So basically how much END you burn over your recovery determines how long you can realistically fight.

 

From the STAT’s you posted in the beginning of the post you have a STR of 60 which means you use 6 END per segment when using your full STR.  You also had a 20” running which would cost 2 END per segment.  So that means if you used your full STR and running each segment it would cost you 8 END.  You have a SPD of 6 so this would be 48 END per turn.  Your REC is 20 so you use 28 END beyond your post 12 Recovery.  So at the end of the first turn you are down to 32 END, by the end of the second turn you are down to 4 END.  So you start burning stun after the second full turn.  This assumes that you are using both STR and Running at full.  Chances are you won’t use both at full each segment, so will last a little longer.

 

If we drop your STR to 30 and running to 15 the numbers change significantly.  Now instead of using 48 END per segment you use 24.  If we drop your SPD to 5 this number goes to 20.  This will allow us to reduce the amount of points you spent on REC and END and still allow you to fight as long if not longer.  Say we buy your REC to 15 Instead of 20, and your END to 30.  Now you burn 5pts more END per turn than your REC.  This means it takes you 6 turns to burn through your 30 END instead of going through your 60 in a little over 2 turns.   If you only use your STR and don’t need to use your running you can fight until knocked out.  You originally paid 114 pts for these stats, my way costs 36. 

 

I can take those points and put them into a martial art and skill levels and will still be able to do the same amount of damage, but also have a lot more flexibility.  31 pts will get me a decent martial art with about 5 maneuvers.  Buy 6 levels with the martial art for another 30 pts and you have spent 97 points. 

Two questions.  What determines how much endurance you use for movement? Like what's the formula for run speed into endurance use?

When you say martial arts levels, are you referring to maneuvers? Buying damage classes?  Or something else I'm not thinking of, curious how it goes 6 levels for 30 more points, not understanding. 

Also is using martial throw any good? Throwing people through walls seems fun but I dont know if useful practice.

Also i wont have the points for this. But theoretically I could make a multi power called ninjitsu, then put stuff like climbing, invisibility,  katana attack, deflection ect ect in there, and get them all cheaper as long as I use one at a time?

5 hours ago, sentry0 said:

 

You know it's funny but DEX 26 comes from my old Champions mentor who had the philosophy that lots of people had 25 DEX so take that extra point to go first.  It's actually arguably poor form to to do that because it's really just metagaming.

 

Yes, I bought 2 DCs so you would still have a 12 die Martial Strike.  Offensive Strike is great but only situationally...Martial Strike should be your go to move unless your opponent is stunned/held or you otherwise have a tactical advantage that would allow you to open up with it.

 

There's a number of ways to build a power that disables a limb or incapacitates someone...personally, I would go with the Martial Maneuvers "Joint Break" and "Nerve Strike".  You can totally build powers that also do what those moves do as well though but I figure you already have MA, why not expand them?

I was just curious, if that's true makes sense though, its something I'd probably do.

I dont see joint break in the book.  We only using the basics none of the expanded stuff.

What is the use for nerve strike? I guess you'd use that if they had high resistant defense so a killing attack wouldn't work? What about choke?

Have any ideas to share for simulating disabling strikes? I was thinking something like this. 

One idea was entangle and take the advantage to make it untargetable? Only thing is I have to come up with another way to break it is says? Also could make it effect only arms and legs but would that stop anyone's attacks?

Any other cool ideas for powers? I figure a healing factor in this game is best represented by a high recovery? And maybe a minor regeneration?

  I thought about having a katana for a killing attack,  but if I can take MA killing strike probably no need.

Also thought of clinging for climbing.   Maybe some sort of ranged attack deflect.  Just throwing stuff out there.

1 hour ago, sentry0 said:

Here's my take on a bare bones super soldier that fills most of your criteria...I left out some stuff but there are plenty of points left over for you to do stuff with.

 

Sorry for the format, and I've attached the hdc file to this doc as well 

 

Generic Super Soldier

 

Val Char Cost Roll Notes

40 STR 30 17- Lift 6400.0kg; 8d6 [8]

26 DEX 32 14- OCV: 9/DCV: 9

25 CON 15 14-

18 INT 8 13- PER Roll 13-

18 EGO 8 13- ECV: 1 - 3

18 PRE 8 13- PRE Attack: 3 ½d6

 

9 OCV 30

9 DCV 30

1 OMCV -6

3 DMCV 0

6 SPD 40 Phases: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12

 

9+15 PD 7 Total: 9/24 PD (0/15 rPD)

9+15 ED 7 Total: 9/24 ED (0/15 rED)

12 REC 8

50 END 6

15 BODY 5

45 STUN 13

 

Total Characteristic Cost: 241

 

Movement:

Running: 30m/60m

Leaping: 20m/40m

Swimming: 4m/8m

 

Cost Powers END

8 Leaping +16m (20m forward, 10m upward) 1

18 Running +18m (30m total) 2

45 Resistant Protection (15 PD/15 ED) 0

 

Martial Arts

8 +2 HTH Damage Class(es)

4 Killing Strike -2 +0 HKA 4d6

4 Martial Block +2 +2 Block, Abort

4 Martial Dodge -- +5 Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort

4 Martial Strike +0 +2 12d6 Strike

5 Offensive Strike -2 +1 14d6 Strike

 

Skills

3 Acrobatics 14-

3 Breakfall 14-

3 Climbing 14-

3 Analyze: Fighting Style 13-

3 Conversation 13-

3 Persuasion 13-

 

 

Total Powers & Skill Cost: 119

Total Cost: 359

 

325+ Matching Complications

 

Total Complications Points: 359

 

Generic Super Soldier.hdc

I like this thank you.  A couple questions, why make DeX 26, there are cutoff points at like 3 and 8 if I'm not mistaken?

Did you only buy 2 dmg classes in martial arts because the martial strike adds 2, so I still end at 12d6?

I was wondering how useful some of the other martial maneuvers are, like nerve strike and choke.   And how that interacts with the dmg classes?

Is it possible to have a power where you can disable a limb or something to incapacitate someone,  sort of like a pressure point strike?

2 hours ago, bluesguy said:

 

No problem  You are asking good questions.

 

My answers:

• Hero Game System makes it very easy to create a mini-maxed character.  The character you presented would be out of wack in my campaign and I wouldn't allow that character.  Bricks are big, slower, easier to hit, suck up damage like crazy but when they connect with an opponent watch out.  My wife has played a 'classic' brick character for years.  She loves picking up things and smashing villains and their minions with them.  Her character once used the axle from a semi-truck like a bat and swatted the main villain across what would become the Vikings Football stadium.
• Each GM sets the ground rules for their campaign.  If in your GMs campaign the bricks are like what you described then you are in line with his vision.
• Here is the thread for 5e Champions Comic Book Characters built on 250 points (250 points was the common starting point with 5e, the equivalent 6e character would be close to 400 pts).  Take a look at Captain America; he is suppose to be at human perfection.

 

You mentioned some favorite superheroes.  Here is my definition of what they are in Hero Game System Terms:

• Captain America - Perfect Human specimen so he can justify having normal human maximums (20 STR, DEX, CON, SPD=4 etc).  Martial Artists/Detective.  Lots of combat skill levels.  Good OCV/DCV.
• Thor - Brick.  He can fly and use his hammer to call on lighting.  A starting character isn't going to have all of that.
• Wolverine - Semi Brick.  That means 25 or 30 STR.  Higher PD/ED than a normal character.  He is either a 4 or 5 SPD.  He has those nasty claws + he packs a nasty punch just from his Adamantium bones - extra dice for Hand to Hand.  And regeneration.  Plus some extra senses.
• Sabertooth - Just like Wolverine except no adamantium bones and I don't if he has regeneration.  He also seems a bit stronger (+5 pts) and maybe a bit quicker (higher DEX) than Wolverine.

Everyone one of these characters has strengths and weaknesses.  None of them is perfect.

 

A full blown brick can have some really cool abilities/powers.  How about:

• Shockwave - Explosive AoE w/ Strength that only does knockdown and knockback and is no range. 
• AoE w/ STR and with OIF (large objects in the area - light poles, cars, something big, etc) with no range (or maybe with range) that can be used to smash those pesky martial artists with their high DCVs
• Fastball special - Ability to pick up a team mate and throw them at a target opponent so they can do a move thru/move by.  I played in a campaign where we had a character who controlled the wind and had telekinesis (high STR) and she would pick up a character called Armadillo (power armor that looked like an Armadillo) and through him at opponents.  The move thru attacks were very effective.  They both bought skill levels so they could pretty much nail villains.

Thanks for the tips.  I guess im not very interested in playing a full brick.  Except throwing cars is really cool.

I had thought about move through attacks.  Thought having high strength and run speed to bull rush people would be kinda fun, sort of juggernaut like.

1 hour ago, sentry0 said:

I also just wanted echo Bluesguy about strengths and weaknesses and campaign baselines.  They're very important and should dictate where your stats should lie.

 

For example, if the average Speed in the game is 5 then drop your Speed to 5.  A pure martial artist would likely have a 6 but they typically trade off DCs for speed.

 

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what we say, it's between you and you GM ?

For sure.  I'm not trying to break anything and would certainly run anything by him.

I looked at all the sample characters in the book, the sample archetypes, and even the examples for where to set defenses and speed, like bulletproof invulnerable ect ect.  To try and get a feel for what's normal.   But obviously a game with so much customization is bound to be different from table to table.

I'm not trying to break anything, I just enjoy the character creation and customization part of rpgs very much.  If If i ever play this again i want to make a really strong telekinetic. Or jedi like character.   Telekinetic choke would be so badass.

15 minutes ago, LoneWolf said:

You spent way too many points on stats and not enough in other areas.  First thing is to drop the STR down by around 20-30 points minimum.  Also drop down the SPD by at least 1.  As it stands your character can go full out for about 3-4 turns before he is out of END.  You also spend quite a bit on mental stats that you are not really utilizing.  Drop the INT and EGO down to around 13.   Also lower your OCV and DCV down a bit.  You can also reduce down the amount you spend on END, REC and probably STUN.

 

Spend some of those points on a martial art and skill levels.  This will keep your damage around the same, but give you a lot more options.  The skill levels will allow you to adjust your fighting style to the situation.  If you are fighting a speedster with a high DCV you will be able to boost your OCV higher by putting everything into OCV.  If you are fighting something that does a lot of damage you put the skill levels into DCV to avoid getting hit.

 

Being able to run as fast as a car is not that hard because as your SPD goes up so does your effective movement.  With a 5 SPD and no increased movement you are 2.5 x faster than a normal.  Adding only +3” of running brings that up to about slightly over x3.  Buying your running up to 15” will also keep the END for running down to 1.  Pick up a x4 NC instead of extra running and you will be running faster than a car.

 

A more versatile character is actually a lot more effective than a one trick wonder.

Thanks.  Some good points for sure.  Can you explain how movement speed and endurance work for me? Something else I dont understand. 

6 minutes ago, bluesguy said:

As a long time GM I wouldn't allow this character into my campaign.  The character has all the characteristics of a brick (super strong, lots of defenses) and the speed and accuracy of a martial artists (high OCV, high DCV, high SPD, lots of movement).

 

Simple comparison between Colossus vs Angel Dust would be:

Colossus:

STR: 60

DEX: 15 or 18

PD/ED: 25 to 30 (mostly if not all resistant)

OCV/DCV: 4 or 5, probably a couple of levels in Hand to Hand combat and maybe a few PSL to offset throwing things

SPD: 3 or 4 (maybe a 5)

 

Angel Dust:

STR: 30 (max)

DEX: 23

PD/ED: 20 or 25 (some resistant)

OCV/DCV: 5, probably 2 to 4 levels in hand to hand

SPD: 5 (no way 6; at least to start)

Martial arts:  If you have access to the HD martial arts package you can find something appropriate

Lots of interesting skills

 

Angel Dust uses martial throws, blocks, dodges, and strikes to do damage to Colossus.  Colossus just tries to hit her.  And in the whole fight he is holding back.  He could pick up a car and use it like a baseball bat on her but he doesn't because he doesn't want to hurt her. 

 

In Marvel universe SPD 6 is reserved for characters who are pure martial artists.  The closets I can find a quick clip for is Ultron fighting Captain America.  Cap is either a 4 or 5 (depends on how much you think the super serum boasted his SPD - remember human max is 4 and the super serum is supposed to produce human max capabilities).  If he is a 5, personally I think he is better than any other normal (non-mutant) human could be, then Ultron is pretty much able to deal out at least one good hit action more than Cap can.

 

When we first started playing Champions we scoured Marvel material and built Marvel heroes and villains so we could help in building our own characters.  There are a number of threads in the Champions sub-forum for which have write-ups for Marvel and DC  heroes (mostly 5e write-ups).

Hey thanks for the reply.  I am new to this system, but not new to rpgs.  Personally I dont understand not allowing it? I could make characters that are invulnerapble with like 12d6 blasts and flying.  This guy just punches stuff, boring, so I wanted him to he good at what he does.

We had one example session where we fought some villains to learn the system.  They had ocv dcv of 9+, higher strength,  and speeds of 5+.  So by my estimation we are underpowered. 

I also used the sample characters in the champions complete book, and honestly this puts me.right in the ball park in my estimation.   I ignored variety to be good at punching things.  But of course I will reserve judgement for my own DM.  But your position seems extreme to me.

I can see your point about colossus possibly holding back.  But she still hit him hard enough to send him flying.  And she took everything just fine.

1 hour ago, sentry0 said:

I would humbly suggest that OP is really describing a super soldier with a high end STR...40 or so + martial arts.  Angel Dust smoked Colossus in terms of technique but Colossus has the edge in defenses and Strength.  Classic Brick vs Super Soldier.

 

From Wikipedia: Angel Dusts upper end strength tops out at 25 tonnes.  That's a very far cry from a true Brick like Colossus.  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_Dust_(comics)

 

If you can reconsider your position about MA Ninja I would suggest you may end up with a character more in the spirit of your inspirations.  However, I get and totally respect your choice either way.

 

The thing about MA is that they're not much more complicated than the standard combat maneuvers.  You can simply think of them as expanding your list of moves ?

 

Phil

 

Thank you sir, I think you got me.  Actually my very first idea was a soldier who's super strength manifested when he lifted a truck to save someone's life.  I've since played around with the backstory but I think you are right.  I actually never heard the term brick at all until we were creating characters.  Personally the only real brick I find interesting is the hulk.  My favorite characters from comic genre are captain America, thor, wolverine, and the version of sabertooth liv Schreiber plays.  I assumed from the book they would be martial bricks since the book calls spiderman a martial brick.  I hate the idea of intentionally being slow and worse at combat just because I'm strong.

So let me ask you, if you were to make angel dust or remake this character into a super  soldier, how would you do it? If I drop strength to 40, I'd want to buy that back in damage classes.  So that doesn't save that many points but gives me martial arts.  Then I guess I could drop my ki strike and just take the martial maneuver killing strike.  That saves a lot of points.

Speaking of this, can you please explain damage classes to me? How do they differ from just adding d6? I dont understand it.

Good points bigby thanks.  I will take that into consideration, dropping some strength could still fit.  Do you have an ideas I could use for inspiration for additional power shifts I went that route?

Also curious about killing Attacks since I noticed a lot of the sample characters have something like that.  When would they typically be used?

in case anyone is unfamiliar or curious here are a couple clips

Well I’m not a comic book buff, but in Deadpool angel dust whoops colossus.  And in the movie the one, jet li can run as fast as a car, jump over bridges, and in one scene picks up a motorcycle in each hand and smashes someone with them.

So i felt like 50-60 was about right.

I do see what you’re saying Chris and appreciate the feedback for sure.  Strength is just simpler I think for my first game.  No one in the group took martial arts skills for that reason.

So I don’t really know the norms, I believe they are all over the place.  I think his dmg is on par.  I will send to dm once completed for approval but just want to complete him first.

My character concept is inspired by angel dust from the Deadpool movies, and jet li character from the movie the one.  Both super strong and durable, both martial artists, jet li is super fast.

He comes from a long line of ninjas.  He came to England for university.  He was in an underground fight to defend his families honor, gets whooped by his adversary and almost dies, then boom mutant genes activate enhancing his physiology making him strong, durable, and fast.  His skills were meant to reflect his ninja training and his study of philosophy.

For his stats I drew inspiration from the examples given in the book.  I was sort of using the martial brick example.  And combined ironclad and green dragon.  He is durable like ironclad and his ocv dcv and speed reflect his martial arts.

My rational for the killing attack was that it seemed several of the example characters had one, so I thought maybe I needed one. And he had no special moves.  So I figured it would represent a Ki strike, like a death blow.

i had thought of maybe shaving points from ki strike by removing stun dmg or something.  I don’t fully understand how things work yet.

His dex was meant to represent his speed and his agility skills.  I didn’t consider using extra phases to abort, I figured just more attacks.  Shows my inexperience.