AlgaeNymph

How would I handle the backstory of a character who has a Cosmic Gem?  Specifically:

• How did they get the gem?
• What were they able to do right at the start?
• How long did it take to become proficient?

Given that a true Cosmic Gem is essentially a do-anything VPP it’s important to know how much one can do how fast.  And why it became available.

On 2/18/2021 at 8:55 PM, Lord Liaden said:

I'd be willing to bet there's a corner of the Netherworld where not all demons are irredeemably evil, because that notion has become popular in recent decades.

Like the Shikima Realm in La Blue Girl.  : p

Look, somebody had to allude to that anime influence.

But seriously, anime does take a lighter and softer view of demons than D&D Pathfinder does.  No doubt the influence from Buddhism (even if it's still considered a gaijin religion) and the belief in reincarnation.

On 2/18/2021 at 12:00 PM, DShomshak said:

Gyre was inspired in part by the Kabbalist tradition that students should have a study partner (and married, and over 40 -- let's pass by the "male" admonition...) to help keep them grounded

So she needs a friend and a love interest.  Got it.  Just don't have it be specifically a male PC, like every time romance is brought up in the supplements.

On 2/18/2021 at 12:00 PM, DShomshak said:

I don't think Bonewits' schema could work for the CU. Too much is established as genuinely external to humanity: Tyrannon is not a rogue neurosis of the human collective unconscious, given an illusion of form by atomic psychokinesis.

Well not for everything in the CU, but it might work for something.  Or it might not; that's what applying science to magic is for.  : )

7 hours ago, Chris Goodwin said:

I think you're thinking of his other book, Authentic Thaumaturgy, which is a gaming supplement.  I've gotten more gaming use out of Real Magic, myself.

Oo, sorry for the confusion.  ^_^;

18 hours ago, DShomshak said:

Getting back on topic, OP asked if any of the stock super-power energy sources could encompass others. It wasn't completely clear that you meant to limit this to options that would work in the CU, or that you wanted to privilege some sources or models over others. So, I gave a way a certain model of magic could swallow up science, even if it can't work in the CU. I'm sorry if it wasn't what you wanted.

Well I did ask in the Champions forum so I felt that was implicit, but...being explicit is necessary for scientific discussion.  Also, apologies for being a bit antisocial back there.  Like I said, the Traditions are kinda triggering, and there are people who think like the Devil's Advocates in real life.  (Seriously, Gyre needs a friend, not a face-puncher.)

2 minutes ago, DShomshak said:

I fear I offended some people on alt.games.white-wolf when I pointed out that Werewolf: the Apocalypse emulates some Nazi ideas about the supernatural benefits of 'pure blood.'

Wasn't Nazism brought up every time the Get of Fenris were mentioned anyway?  Or is this about the Native American blood purity?

3 minutes ago, DShomshak said:

Now, my next post was going to be about P. E. I. Bonewitz's quasi-scientific explanation for magic, by way of psionics, from his book Real Magic. However, it also can't work in  the CU. Does anyone think it's worth bringing up?

I remember reading that, and mostly wondering "what game system is he referring to?"  Didn't map to GURPS, which you think it would have given the publisher (Steve Jackson Games) and how said system is analytical about everything.  Had to wait until GURPS Thaumatology for 4E, though.

On 2/13/2021 at 6:37 PM, Lord Liaden said:

It made an odd kind of sense... actually, some of this superstition had parallels in math and physics... if she used symbolic logic to cut through the archaic jargon and the contradictions...

Yep, that's why I suggested number-crunchers for a Magic lab.

On 2/14/2021 at 10:30 AM, DShomshak said:

Of course, Gyre is also quite mad. It's a common hazard for mystics who seek too far, too quickly.

I fail to see her her ambition correlates to her personality disorder.  In any case, she just needs meds and a healthier social environment.

On 2/14/2021 at 10:58 AM, DShomshak said:

This is the theurgy of science. From a mystical perspective, the entire laboratory method of repeated experimentation, statistical analysis, equipment-checking and replication of results can be seen as a ritual process to reinforce belief in the system of science and strengthen the scientist's power to get results using that system.

Except science doesn't need belief, even in the rubber physics of the Champions setting.  Nor do metaphysical power sources.  Apt you mentioned Mage: the Ascension because I always found the Traditions pretty much trying to soft-sell a Dark Renaissance of their own.  Phil Masters goes into more detail with The Truth, Obviously, concluding such thinking is really about promoting radical politics.   Following that, "science vs. magic" only became a trope during the New Age age because of consumerism.  (Fitting it also mentions Changling: the Dreaming which conflates science with Banality.)  Though to be fair, there is the occasional enlightened wizard who conflates science and magic without any theocratic baggage.

On 2/14/2021 at 11:41 AM, Lord Liaden said:

Now I'm wondering if an experimental approach could be added to the discipline of martial arts in order to develop a new technique, even a new use of ch'i. I know there are modern martial arts like Krav Maga that were assisted in development with such scientific studies as kinesiology, but they lack the spiritual dimension of traditional arts, having the exclusive design goal of efficiency in defeating an opponent.

Now this is more what I'm getting at.  Now the question is: how would one use tech to aid the spiritual (or whatever Ch'i needs)?

45 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

"Laboratory" presupposes a scientific approach.

I thought that's what we were doing here?  And isn't that what Anglestone Laboratories and the Goodman Institute do?

If I were to take a scientific approach (what other approach is there?) the first thing I'd do is measure what I know can be measured, such as the effects of powers on objects.  Even better if I can compare them to known constants (i.e., how much you need to heat up 1kg of H2O 1˚C).  That doesn't solve discerning the composition of the powers themselves, though comparing them to known energy sources would be a good start.  The training equipment at Ravenswood foremost comes to mind.

As for specifics:

• Ch'i would have biomonitoring gear, given how often powers affect the body.  Particular focus would be on networked systems (particularly nervous and circulatory) and comparisons to theorized energy lines.
• Magic would, of course have iconic hard-copy libraries, but would have book scanners as well.  Digitization's needed to input the data into informatics programs (see also: Gyre).
• Psionics would absolutely require brain scanning equipment.  Neural nets and lab animals (and caught slavers) would also be required.  Given how it can get physical some of the above wouldn't be remiss.
• Given how much Cosmic Energy an affect I'm baffled beyond 'all of the above.'  I suppose some geology equipment to learn the physical properties of a Cosmic Gem, for what that's worth.

Anyone have anything to add?

Something else I think about on occasion: what would laboratories for each of the four sources look like?

On 2/10/2021 at 12:16 PM, DShomshak said:

If it were up to me, but I was bound to preserve past published statements, I'd present something like this:

And you present it well.  Story-wise, I particularly like Kinetik's and Sapphire's lines as they'd show the attention to detail I'd put in my works.  : )

And if I understand the Mandaarian's claim correctly, we know how to make use of the fundamental source but don't even know what we're working with.  That about right?

On 2/10/2021 at 5:40 PM, Lord Liaden said:

Perhaps this is the power -- which I will now call Reflections of Atziluth -- which conceptual entities convert into magic, cosmic energy, matter, life, everything. But major actions by mortals like the Walpurgisnacht Working or the Kolvel Event can accidentally break through to Atziluth and tap the Reflections, changing the balance of properties in a world, galaxy, even universe.

Adding on to that is a latter paragraph on the same page: 

The Atziluthic World also includes a fourth element, the “lost sephira” called DA’ATH: the link between Wisdom and Understanding, balanced in the Abyss between timeless Atziluth and the realms below. Archimedes said, “Give me a lever long enough, and a place to stand, and I will move the Earth.” Da’ath is that place. From Da’ath, a mystic can call on the limitless power of Binah, shape it with the archetypes of Chokmah, and cast his creation into the realms of Time. Only the mystic’s intelligence, patience, and skill limits what he can create, from a flower to a galaxy. What’s more, since Da’ath exists outside time, the mystic can insert his new creation at any point in history — past, present, or future. Da’ath’s nature renders it, rather understandably, one of the greatest secrets in sorcerous lore.

Looks like the kind of thing Cosmic Energy does.  Don't know for sure, but it's a starting point for research.  : )

7 hours ago, DShomshak said:

I could question the assignment of some power sources to some Zoas.

By all means, do so.  A diversity of of perspectives and questioning of hypotheses is foundational to scientific thought.  : )

Or rather, a gathering of information in order to form one.

In my readings I've found four ultimate sources for superpowers (besides training), being the four aforementioned in the title.

• Ch'i is always, based on my findings, associated with martial arts.  I think it's some sort of personal energy, and particularly shows up in "internal" or highly mythologized styles.
• Magic is the most important one as it's more than just wizard stuff; it's also canonically the means by which most other powers are possible.  I'm aware of how controversial this decision was.
• Psionics is pretty much magic but purely mental and scientistic.  It's big in science fiction because Joseph Campbell liked it.  It doesn't entirely go away when the magic did in 2020, but I don't know how it works beyond that.
• Cosmic Energy is "a mysterious type of energy that permeates the Galaxy (and perhaps all Reality). Scientists as yet do not fully understand cosmic energy," and neither do I.  But it's the force behind Cosmic Gems, which let anybody do just about anything, so it's particularly interesting to me.

All three are so far pretty separate, but do they have to be?  That's not a rhetorical question, and I'm not a metaphysician, so I'm asking the collective consciousness here for any ideas you all have.

On 1/29/2021 at 6:42 PM, Lord Liaden said:

Let's take a current wearer of one of the Gems, the villain Galaxia. Most if not all of her superhuman qualities derive from the Gem -- she's much weaker if it's taken away. When in contact with it she can wield its power proportionate to her will. Is that something anyone can do, regardless of the state of physics in a given universe? Think of it like radiation. Radiation is a real power in our universe and the Champions Universe, and can be controlled and utilized through technology. In our universe exposure to radiation causes sickness and potentially death. In the CU it causes super powers in rare cases.

I'm...afraid I don't understand your analogy.  Radiation, in a universe with flexible physics, either grants superpowers or (more often) super tumors.  Conversely, a Cosmic Gem grants power proportional to a user's will (and whatever character points they've invested in it), but doesn't have any harmful effects.  My understanding is that anybody can use one (making them likely pretty coveted, assuming you know where to find one, but I digress).

21 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Pursuant to archer's theory above, I've been assuming that the "cosmic energy/power" wielded by beings like the Galaxars is the ultimate expression of the laws of science, the manifestation of the elusive Grand Unified Field Theory, the fundamental force underlying all others.

Hm...

So would it be fair to assume that somebody with a true Cosmic Gem would still have their powers?

5 hours ago, DShomshak said:

[T]he decline of magic wouldn't be instant, like flicking a switch, but a gradual dimming. Super-powers gradually weakened; new origins declined and eventually stopped[...] I would presume that super-powers do not instantly stop working if a super time-travels to a low-magic epoch. Magic, after all, involves the mind, the soul and the self, not just ambient quasi-physical energies. Each super carries a bit of their own reality with them that keeps their powers running... for a while.

Very useful to know, and should provide sufficient buffer for a time traveler, particularly if they're not in a strictly magic-dead age.  Power took a year or two just after 2020, so something like the Valdorian Age would be a lot longer.  (In particular, magic does work just fine there...if it's from an external source.)  The Atlantean and Turakian ages would likely be just fine for superhumans.

Over in another thread, Lord Liaden offered this:

On 1/28/2021 at 4:05 PM, Lord Liaden said:

There are necromancers on Champs Earth in the present day, not all entirely malevolent; and several beings who have found ways to function post-death. If you like I could give you more info on this thread, or via PM if you don't want it to drift too far. Your thread, your rules.

Thank for letting me keep things tidy.  : )

But yes, good reminder of such unconventional heroes as Doctor Teneber.  However, who else do you have in mind as potential allies?  It's always good to have a way to get my life and powers back after I die.

On 1/28/2021 at 4:05 PM, Lord Liaden said:

Wait, does this scenario you're speculating about involve Istvatha V'han?

Someone working for her, yes.  : )

Sorry about any confusion earlier, everyone.

6 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Within the historical period, absolutely. Much more problematic to exploit the Valdorian Age, though. It falls within the era between the geography-scrambling magical cataclysms that ended the Turakian Age, and the Atlantean Age. The shape of the continents isn't even recognizable, so knowledge of where minerals will be in the future would be no guide to where they were then.

Though Lake Tah’nees in the Nightlurk Mountains does corresponds with one unfortunate oil well in Oklahoma...

I'm aware this is a controversial subject, but it's one I feel can be discussed calmly.  Besides, I'm neutral about it.  I mainly see it as something to solve -- and exploit.  ; )

Officially, the source for superpowers, which is apparently magic...fluctuates over time.  Though even when the magic goes away, as it does in 2020 according to Galactic Champions, genetic immortality still works (See: Cateran, Empyreans), as does low-level psionics (see: Star Hero).  According to Champions Beyond, the Lawbringer destroys the Qularr in the early 2200's so cosmic energy seems to still work, at least for Galaxars.  The cosmic energy of those empowered by Xarriel's coruscations* (Photon, Stareye, Sunspot, Vector, and Victory) are unmentioned, but likely fizzled out.  Teen Champions has a pair of (possibly senile) time travelers implied to have visited the Valdorian Age, though nothing's explicitly stated.

So...what works and what doesn't in what age?

* P.S.  "Coruscations" is spelled with two 2 r's in Champions Beyond.

19 hours ago, archer said:

 

People for slaves

The Empress finds slavery abhorrent, as do I.  However, freeing slaves and training them might be an option.  : )

17 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

As Il-Ryveras is part of the same global configuration containing the island of Atlantis and the Lemurian Archipelago, time-travelers could travel to those lands when they were on the surface, and before the Atlanteans and Lemurians inhabited them, to take all the orichalcum and/or ignaetium they want.

16 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

There's a plant called the purple orchid which only grows in the Ylsythen Jungles on the northern continent of Pelosa. It's the base component of various recreational narcotics and hallucinogens, and its smoke was used by necromancers to induce a dream state during which their reserves of spell-powering vitality were renewed.

16 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

I collaborated with one player to develop a new PC for her inspired by VA.

Both good ideas.  And the Valdorian PC now has me thinking about a present day superhuman who, after getting killed, went back in time to work with a necromancer.  Their goal is to get back to the present day, get back their life, and get back their power.  Though how would one do that?

A time-traveling superhuman (or other sapient) might obviously want to visit, for example, the era of Galactic Champions for the easily-acquired tech, or the Turakian Age for the (relatively) easily-acquired magic.  But what would the Valdorian Age have to interest a time-traveler?  I suppose easily-acquired workspace free of interference (assuming they can bring or make the infrastructure), but can't think of anything else.  Even in that best case there wouldn't be any reason to interact with the locals beyond maybe a power trip.  Any other ideas for what one could get from such a time and place?

3 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

 

AFAIK the info in the books you cited is all that's been released for that side of the setting. I'm not aware of any published exchanges in the club.

10 hours ago, steriaca said:

It's however you want it to be. It is whatever you decide it is.

About what I figured, but it's in my nature to exhaustively make sure.  If nothing else, it's something for the search engines to find.  Thanks again.  : )

4 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

If you've ever spent any time role-playing in an MMORPG social instance full of horny power-fantasizing adolescents... it's like that.

I know how it's like in the MMORPG, thus the linked text.  I mean how is it in the pen-and-paper RPG?

It only gets a long paragraph each in Champions Universe 6E (p.38) and Millennium City 5E (p.43), and much has already been said about misinterpretations of the place, but what is the place like?  It's a nightclub popular with heroes and groupies, there's a superhumans-only section, and upstairs private rooms (hmm~), but nothing else about the atmosphere or floor plan.  I suspect the answer is "whatever fits your game" but I am curious to read about what's likely (and plausible).  And very curious about those private rooms...

18 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

Why would a superhero have to deposit conjured or transmuted cash? Superheroes are supposed to be the best of us, to stand for principles. Even the rich ones came by their money honestly.

I suppose there are several better options than chorework.

13 hours ago, Jhamin said:

It is likely more legal to make precious metals or jewels and sell them as long as they are permanent.

Certainly an idea I had.  Of course, it's not something I can do en-masse.

18 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

To be sure there are supers, like Lady Blue, who exist in a grey zone, breaking laws but still doing some good along the way; but they aren't heroes.

Hm?  Isn't doing good what makes one a hero in the first place?

21 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

In the current official Champions Universe, there's a group called Villainy Unlimited (thoroughly detailed in the 5E book, Cops, Crews, And Cabals), that provides a range of services to supervillains who have great difficulty getting them from other sources: legal representation, bail bonding, insurance, medical care, acquiring costumes and more mundane items, mediation of disputes, and the like. Financial assistance and advice is another major service they offer. While VU won't directly launder money, or provide any direct assistance in committing a crime, it does provide financial and investment advice, help villains set up bank accounts and trust funds under false names, and transfer money to offshore bank accounts.

I definitely had them in mind since VIPER, ARGENT, and baddie nations are jerks and meanies.  It's where Lady Blue goes, so that's endorsement enough for me.  But like you said they're not stop-n-drop.

However, where would a superhero deposit lots of conjured/transmuted cash?  Can't imagine anyplace overt since the Secret Service, which already doesn't like superhumans, would look askance at any (understandably) alleged counterfeiter.

I've been looking at the replies and found them wanting for some reason, in spite of them pretty much matching my prior research (even citing the same sources).  Then it occurred to me: they all involve fussy chores.  How would a superhuman get (or even find) somebody else to do said chores?  (You'd think Dark Champions would describe criminal cultures with as much fussy detail as it did criminalistics...)

And on the subject of buying homes and businesses, what is the upper limit of what I can buy with duffel bags?

6 hours ago, eepjr24 said:

Any large cash business is a good way to do it in the real world. Strip clubs-

Oo!  Now I have a practical reason to become Vice Lord of the Hudson City Strip.  I can convert cash into credit, and help out the workers there!  Unions, housing, harm reduction, medical care, runaway watch...if I got money from elsewhere they won't even be a drain.  No doubt some jerks'll try to start a problem, but only one easily solved via superpowers.  😁