assault

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

Captain Comet showed up in the recent JSA Elseworlds ("Golden Age"), to my complete surprise. I had no idea who he was until they finally mentioned his name.

 

Alas, the story wasn't that good, so I'd recommend giving it a pass, despite my love for most things JSA.

Well, I liked it and thoroughly recommend it... I'm going to leave a spoiler space before the reason why.

I spotted Captain Comet first off.

*** spoiler space ***

It had the Ultra-Humanite and Hitler's Brain... What's there not to like?

Re: Consequences ...

I'm guessing I would have to prove Telepathy exists (or at least convince the government that it exists) in order to let the government enact laws against it. This might make for some interesting RP -- if Madame Mystique proves Telepathy is real' date=' she won't be able to use it as freely because she could be sued for Mental Invasion.[/quote']

 

Yes. You can't use Telepathic evidence because Telepathy doesn't exist. If it does exist you can't use it.

 

That's a handy controlling factor - you need hard evidence to back up the information you gained through your powers, or the cops won't believe you. Of course, you could just arrange accidents for all your villains, but unless you are the Spectre, or are fighting demons and so on, this kind of thing tends to attract attention after a while.

 

A useful compromise is to find a cop who will believe your wild-eyed stories. They will still need real evidence to take to court, but they will cut you a bit of slack if necessary.

 

Incidentally, since Telepathy "doesn't exist", nobody is likely to believe the bad guy who got mind-ripped. Except, of course, for the people who already knows it does exist...

Re: Consequences ...

Historical Golden Age characters were extremely likely to use telepathy in this manner. It's part of the black and white aspect: they do it because the bad guys are eeevil and have forfeited their rights.

Of course, it sounds like it wasn't roleplayed particularly well.

I'll just post a few panels from a Golden Age title, just as an example. It's from an Australian series, but US series would be similar enough.

Sorry about the poor quality of the image, and the fact that it's slightly crooked! My errors...

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

In DC' date=' I can't get enough of Cap Marvel (Shazam!). Here is a hero that got no chances in the Iron Age, [/quote']

 

I think he would be just fine in the Iron Age with the right writer. He's completely incorruptable, and incredibly powerful. In short, he's the perfect watchdog for the Authority types.

 

Back in DC's old Action Comics Weekly series, there was an interesting Shazam story where he got involved with some Neo-Nazi types. It worked quite well. That version of the character could quite easily have coped with stuff like that more frequently.

 

On the Martian Manhunter: he originally seems to have been something like a Silver Age version of the Spectre, rather than a superhero. That is, he was a detective who secretly possessed powers, rather than someone overt like Superman.

 

His grab bag of powers makes more sense in that context, IMHO. Or at least he's no worse than the Spectre, who nobody complains about.

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

my interest in starting the thread was not just to see who people might pick, but how they approached it--did they try a brute force approach, a sentimental favorite characters approach, a clever use of characters with plot device powers of their own?

 

What would be their criteria in forming such a force? etc.

OK, revisiting my team in these terms...

1. The FF are my favourite Marvel team. (I mainly read DC). Therefore, my initial instinct is to use them as a core. So that's "sentimental favorite characters" there.

2. However... Reed is the master of the Plot Device. He is the absolute master of "whipping out a gadget" in the Marvel universe. That's really what makes the FF a top grade team, even though their actual powers have seen plenty of inflation over the decades. So the FF have the power to do the job.

3. The FF have lots of experience fighting cosmic weenies. Even this inflated Hyperion is nothing special compared to all the other cosmic weenies they have fought.

4. I've only specified four slots. There's still plenty of room for tweaking beyond that. Artistically, it would be best to draw from established allies of the FF - perhaps the Inhumans, maybe the Silver Surfer(!), Namor, or, heck, even Dr Doom! There's plenty of power there. (Even Uatu the Watcher might tag along to see what happens.)

Failing that, you could add the Avengers to the mix, or stick in some oddbods like Dr Strange. He's crossed over with the FF at least once.

In fact, however, any of the major Marvel Universe groups ought to be able to handle this situation, because that's what they do. The FF, the Avengers, and the X-Men should all be up to the job. They've all fought and defeated all powerful weenies before, and, no doubt, they will do it again.

It's really just a matter of picking the team (and lineup) that you prefer.

Re: Marvel's Exiles: Hyperion Challenge--build a team to beat him!

My team:

1. Reed Richards

2. Sue Richards

3. Ben Grimm

4. Johnny Storm

5+: Anyone else.

Re: Essential Bad Bronze Age

This didn't help.

Sadly, I can't rep you at the moment.

Dazzler is another fine example of this kind of nonsense.

The Teen Titans fought a bunch of people called the Rocket Rollers (or something like that) who rode rocket powered skateboards.

This is the "fad showcase" thing mentioned in the Champions Genre book (5th Ed, of course).

The cool thing about all of this stuff is that it narrowed the gap between Hostess Twinkie ads and the comics they appeared in.

A Bad Bronze Age game would be simplicity itself. You can find pretty nearly all of the Hostess ads at http://www.seanbaby.com. *Warning: this site is not work/child safe*.

Just stat out the villains, and there ya go.

Re: How do you feel about Superheroes that kill?

That's like blaming the renaissance artists for those who later tried to copy their style' date=' poorly. Moore and Miller can not be blamed because oters could not write as well as them. And lets face it- some of the worst writing ever came from Silver Age comics- they were stripped of anything even remotely resembling a point by being handcuffed to the Comics Code. [/quote']

 

You misinterpreted what I wrote. Sorry. Of course I wasn't blaming Moore and Miller.

 

A lot of Bronze Age writing was a lot worse than most Silver Age stuff. The code wasn't quite as big a bugbear as it is sometimes portrayed as being.

 

But then, I enjoy a lot of stuff that is technically quite poorly written. The raw madness of Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen, for example, completely overwhelms the fact that none of it makes the slightest bit of sense. The Lois Lane series might also be worth a laugh or two.

 

Obviously, I read different stuff depending on my mood.

Re: How do you feel about Superheroes that kill?

Depends on the genre of superhero. If it's Silver Age, they're very naughty. Iron Age, and it almost defines the genre. A hero who doesn't kill in an Iron Age comic is either very principled or... well, dead.

...

Killing is definitely a line that differentiates one type of genre/hero from another, but I don't think of it as "cut and dried"... rather more of a plot construct or story enhancement.

Yep. Golden Age lethality is different from Silver Age is different from Bronze Age is different from Iron Age...

Early killer Batman is no more or less a hero than the later child-safe version, or the Dark Knight Returns version. His CVK makes no sense whatsoever, but he has no defences against editorial decisions...

World War II era Captain America is no more or less a hero than the 50's fascist-minded Commie Smasher, or the later blander version(s). (I find the fascist version amusing).

The Walt Simonson/Archie Goodwin Manhunter was a killer (back in the 70s). I don't regard him as any less of a hero for that.

Wolverine began as a hero too. He had his dark side, but he attempted to resist it.

And so on...

Except, of course, that many Iron Age characters are just exercises in pandering to the immature tastes of pointless fanboys. The issue here, however, isn't that they kill, but rather that they're rubbish in general. And this extends to earlier characters who get worked over in this way too.

For what it's worth, Batman is one of the many victims of this. He gets caught between two factors: the increased Iron Age bloodthirstiness of his villains, and the greater attention paid to continuity in recent decades than in earlier times. Continuity gets him, because it means that Arkham Asylum really does have revolving doors, and the Joker really does have a monstrous body count. The increase in bloodthirstiness means that that body count mounts up faster and faster...

Frankly, he isn't any less of a hero for this. He's just being pooched by hacks. Unfortunately, that problem seems to be shared by a lot of characters these days. It seems that writers like Alan Moore and so on have spawned a huge crop of really cr*ppy imitators.

They're the real villains.

Re: The Essential Bad Silver Age

2) Painfully earnest-- and usually lefty-- politics. The Green Lantern/Green Arrow "On the Road" story arc was actually a good and groundbreaking example of Bronze Age politicking' date=' but the imitations it spawned were often annoying or goofy. (If you've got a Steve Ditko fan in the group, try some painfully earnest Objectivism on 'em! )[/quote']

 

I really don't think that any of the early Bronze Age writers had any real understanding of the politics they were supposed to be working with. Almost all of their stuff feels like they had had it all explained to them secondhand.

 

Except Ditko. You could probably have fun with some of Ditko's stuff. He was a True Believer - and was not above telling you about it.

Re: The Essential Bad Silver Age

Super-powered pets.

I object!

This is a feature, not a bug.

Unlike the other things you listed.

---

Hmm... Bad Bronze Age might be a laugh too... "Brother Power, the Geek".

Re: What makes a good villian??

OK.. here is the question.

"What makes a good villian?" ...

 

I have recently started to watch Teen Titans and I have to say I love Slade as a villian.

I thought that the definition of a villain involved them being bad...

As for Slade.... Bah!

Just because he was in one of the Best Storylines Ever* doesn't make him a great villain. Although it helps.

---

* The Judas Contract, of course.

Re: The Essential Bad Iron Age

Bloodstrike #5

Even the title is a winner!

I'm appalled Keith Giffen was involved in it though.

Re: Punisher Vs Batman

The one comic book image that has stuck in my head was the Karate Kid Flying upward, after just explaining that he HAS no powers to drain, just skill.

Well, he did have a Legion flight ring. Seeing him fly isn't a problem. Nor is seeing him survive in space, for similar reasons.

On the other hand, his combat abilities are just a teensy bit overboard.

But he provides a good rationalisation for why Duo Damsel, Bouncing Boy and Matter Eater Lad are viable superheroes. Let's face it: You could be a viable superhero if you trained with Karate Kid for a few years.

Re: Batman vs Midnighter

This is why your skull computer should always have the best heat sink and cooling fan money can buy.

Wiser words have never been said.

On the topic: Batman would kick Midnighter's plastic a** the second time. The first time, Midnighter is just another one of the supervillains that slap Batman around the first time. Blah blah blah. Another supervillain that can take out Batman in combat. (Yawn...)

Incidentally, isn't Ed Brubaker working on the Authority at the moment? That could potentially be good. Or at least as good as an essentially sucky title can get.

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

Since one is playing in a game' date=' it's often worth extending the official 'word' on a subject a little for game balance. Movies tend to make the thin special effects only costumes into things more practical (X-Men, Batman, etc). There's no reason we as gamers can't as well.[/quote']

 

Yep.

 

Games are a different medium to comics, in the same way that movies are different. Our characters are necessarily adaptations.

 

Adding armour to costumes is the kind of necessary adaptation involved in making the transition between what works in the comics and what works in a game. Just like handing out Combat Luck to any character that shouldn't die quite as often as they otherwise would.

 

Hmm... But then again, the need to engage in these kind of conversions probably reflects the degree to which Champions didn't accurately reflect the source material from which it was originally designed back in the early 80s.

 

Anyway, modify your characters to whatever degree you see fit to make them work.

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

Here are some stats for Colossus. Sound right?

...

Does Colossus have any Combat training that would translate into MA? I think so. Also, I'd assume several skill levels - especially 3 or so with fastball specials.

It all looks fair enough.

Colossus has clearly had combat training, so knock yourself out with the MA and skill levels. Or you could build an early version of him and give him little or no such stuff.

Just for a laugh... if you wanted to give him some odd skills, you could assume that he had done a bit of military training before he joined the X-Men. The Soviet military was a conscript force, after all.

Of course, this is the beginning of the road towards creating a "homage", rather than a "true representation" of the character.

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

But now we're into cute tricks again just to avoid a Multi-form that doesn't actually cost him anything? Seems odd.

The problem is that he has a disadvantage. His powers aren't usually available to him, and go away when he is unconscious. But he doesn't get a points break for it.

That's not necessarily unacceptable, except that he may be associating with other characters that _did_ get points breaks for their disadvantages.

None of this matters for an NPC, but you could reasonably expect a PC to complain about it.

Ultimately, of course, this problem is a result of trying to exactly model a published character rather than building your own character that's similar. Building your own character would allow you to use OIHID, which is the traditional technique for building characters like this.

Mind you, I've built some rather interesting characters with Multiform. My Ultra Boy homage worked particularly nicely. So nicely, in fact, that I banned him.

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

So, go with Multi-form.

 

The nice thing about this is you don't HAVE to make up the second character sheet (i.e. the 'normal' Peter) unless you intend on using it. Multi-form in that case is 'just activating the power', i.e. no point difference or work at all. Which may be why the books suggests that method.

Nah. Give him a force field, and link everything else to it.

He activates it, and everything turns on. He gets stunned, and everything turns off.

It sucks to be him, sometimes.

But he gets to buy a lot of stuff for his points. He just needs to make sure that some of it is Combat Luck, for use when his powers aren't activated.

Re: X Men Colossus and his Osmium Form

I guess I was trying to build the most angst-ridden, nit-picky and frustrating version - not the best idea I've come up with.

Easy is good.

More importantly, never use exact "copies" of published characters in your campaign. It just encourages rules lawyers. "But Colossus can't/wouldn't/whatever do that!"

As far as the character goes, I would use an old-school OIHID design. It's easy, and the +1/4 modifier means he's acceptably tough.

Unfortunately, Colossus' super-form isn't Persistent. This can suck hugely in a game. Getting Stunned happens.

You might be able to build a character with almost everything linked to his defences, if the latter aren't persistent. That might work almost as well as OIHID. A kind GM might let you stack Linked and OIHID. I wouldn't, but it would be a good scam if you can get away with it.

Two priorities are involved here: simplicity and minimaxing. If you keep it simple, you are less likely to be accused of munchkinism.

Re: Western Champions Adventure

After the fight a journal is found explaining that the Lloyd boys have found some magic snake venom (they call it that) in a cave made all of metal' date=' [/quote']

 

As you have written it, this looks like a loose end. Where is the cave, what is it really, and so on. The players will want to investigate it.

 

Aside from that, this looks like a really cool scenario that I would love to play. The exotic (to me) atmosphere adds particular flavour to it.

 

Is Seeker basically the one from 4th Edition? It seems like the kind of situation you would find him in.

 

Assault too, for that matter. He'd be in the bar.

Re: Balancing of the Green Lantern

And now he hosts the Daily Show. Damn' date=' John, stay black![/quote']

 

You're lucky. That show has been shown on Australian TV, so I know what you're talking about.

Re: Balancing of the Green Lantern

John Stewart.

That reminded me...

I've got a reprint of John Stewart's first appearance. It was during the early 70s "relevance" period.

Stewart was, of course, a blaxploitation Angry Young Man.

Re: I want to run a Bad Comics game

PINHAED? Just admiring the irony.

Catch!

(Assault throws a truck at you...)

Re: The Unusual Suspects

How about a cheerleader who hunts vampires?

Oh wait! That's been done.