assault

Re: I Have In My Hand A List...

The key point is that the witchhunt began under Truman in the 40s and continued into the 60s. McCarthy was only of the figures involved, and was really only important for a relatively brief period. You could take him out of the picture and everything would go on more or less unchanged.

The Red Scare was part of the process of mobilising US society to fight the Cold War. It was necessary, not optional, if capitalism was to survive. Eliminating McCarthy would make no difference.

Re: Do you use the Published characters as a baseline for you campaign?

Could any ONE member of your superteam at least distract someone like Grond away from innocent bystandards until the rest of your team showed up.

I use Grond in the Hulk/Solomon Grundy role.

That means a single character _might_ be able to contain him until he gets bored and wanders off.

Then again, I'm not at all averse to giving him temporary power boosts that allow him to slap the whole group around.

Either way, I'm more likely to change his power level to suit the PCs rather than to change to PCs to suit him.

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

Like most games, CoC sucks if it's not run well, rules notwithstanding.

...

By the time I died 20 minutes later-- eaten alive by my "colleagues" -- the GM and I were alone at the table, with hands occasionally coming up from below to paw at our dice or character sheets. Actually, I think one of the GM's NPC character sheets got eaten (leading to the same fate for my faithful sidekick).

CoC is vulnerable to heavy handed GMing. With a lighter touch, it's fine.

It also makes a fine semi-LARP. Lightray's description indicates that.

My favourite CoC game was played in a rundown old farmhouse in the hills, on a foggy night. That was where we _played_ it. The setting in the _game_ was a rundown old mansion in the hills, on a foggy night...

None of us died or went insane.

The plot was broadly lifted from Robert E Howard's "Dig Me No Grave".

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

Now he's a whiny teenager.

Which "he"?

Re: Iyo: The Most Underrated Or Underused Character In Comics

People have mentioned Ted Kord/Blue Beetle and Dan Garrett/Blue Beetle. Ted knows about a hundred people who could retrieve the Scarab from where it was buried in a rockslide when Dan was killed. I have no idea why they haven't recovered it and bestowed it on someone, preferably Ted. Superman class powers, Ted's personality, that would be some good reading.

 

Power Girl should have her own book but Geoff Johns has made her into a whiny, needy tabula rasa. One black mark on an otherwise distinguished writing career. Maybe she's back on the diet soft drinks? You do know that she was originally supposed to be in Formerly Known as JLA, right? Johns had priority claim and also made her unsuitable for use anyway. Mary Marvel was "closest equivalent powerhouse."

The scarab came back in the series BB had back in the 80s. It turned out to "really" be a nasty alien critter, which had turned Dan Garrett into a zombie after his "death". An unfortunate retcon, but an OK story.

I reread the series over the weekend, for the first time since it came out. It actually wasn't too bad. The only real problems with it were the obligatory crossovers with Legends and Millenium, which caused awkward jumps in the plotline, but that was a problem for all DCs titles from that period.

In fact, this series was good enough that I was initially resistent to the inept version of the character that showed up in Justice League. And I'm appalled by what seems to have happened to the character since....

As for Power Girl: she was, of course, originally a very strong "take no BS" character. Yet another character who has lost her way in the hands of hacks...

Re: If Champions didn't exist...

Nor could I ever get a hold of Golden Heroes.

There's actually a new version/edition of Golden Heroes in playtest at the moment. The name has been changed to Squadron UK.

The playtest is going on through the Golden Heroes Yahoo Group.

What's really interesting about it, though, is that the group's file section contains a whole bunch of old articles and scenarios from White Dwarf magazine. At least some of these scenarios are dual-statted for Champions as well as GH.

You have to join the group to get access to them, though.

GH has some interesting mechanisms, which could be borrowed for house rules. Otherwise it's pretty average.

The fact that it was a British game is interesting, but there was never a really adequately developed setting for it.

Oh yeah. That reminds me: there was an Australian produced SH RPG called Super Squadron. It was rather similar to V&V in many ways, since they both were influenced by D&D. It wasn't able to break into the US market. That's no great loss, since it didn't really do anything that other games didn't do better, but does indicate the problems faced by wouldbe Australian game designers.

I've lifted a few ideas from it for my Champions games. These are mostly related to a statistical breakdown of origin types. Of course, I ignore such matters whenever I design a game that is actually intended to be run.

Re: If Champions didn't exist...

I would have to go with Superworld. I bought a copy of the Worlds of Wonder version when it came out, so it was available. Its system was nice, clean and simple, so I might have actually been willing to play it.

Of course, Superworld itself owes a bit of a debt to Champions, but it's still quite likely that Chaosium would have published a superhero RPG even without the success of Champions.

Hmm... roads less travelled...

Re: Comics from the Good Ol' Days

Once you track down a comic store, starting looking at the DC Archive editions (expensive), the Marvel Essentials books and various trade paperback reprints. A lot of pretty cool stuff has been reprinted.

You can read a fair bit of stuff online at these websites: http://superman.ws/tales/1930s.php

http://www.allaboutcomix.com/joindex2.html

The stories on the second site might drive you insane, though. Be warned!

Re: First Supers in the World campaigns

Effectively, most of my games have been "first Supers in the world" ones, if only because few if any other heroes have been around.

I would have the first supers being villains. In particular, various masterminds would have begun their operations well before heroes start appearing.

If I was playing a Silver Age game, I might have a few monsters and aliens wandering about. In the Golden Age, there might be pulp heroes and villains, and probably a low key mystic world, which might suddenly become unbalanced.

What I _wouldn't_ do, is have lots and lots of supers emerging. I notice some people have suggested up to 1500 supers being around. Personally, I would go with something more like 15.

Oh, sure, if you go to the Lost City of the Mole-People, there might be thousands of "superbeings", but in the general world there would be next to none.

I would discuss the question of genre conventions with the players, so costumes and all of that would be handled in an agreed manner.

Basically, I would create the world as I needed it. If I wanted more supers in a particular scenario, I would create them.

Re: The Kingpin, the Maggia and Intergang

DC handled street gang activity via Intergang. I've always considered Intergang to be a mistake even in a Silver Age setting.

I think you've missed the point.

Intergang was Darkseid's agency on Earth.

Many more conventional organised crime outfits have shown up in various Bat-titles.

And, incidentally, Intergang first appeared in the early 70s, and is probably strictly "Bronze Age" rather than "Silver Age"!

Re: IST San Angelo

As noted' date=' I felt that the GURP IST world was exceptionally well-done, I just didn't like certain liberties that it took since it reflected a certain world view.[/quote']

 

Yeah. My first encounter with it was IST Kingston. The "apocalyptic Castro" thing was a bit bizarre. On the other hand, I was most amused when I reread it recently, and realised that the US and Australia are currently in the top category on the "threat to world peace" scale it included.

 

I guess it's like every similar world: it's a combination of what the author thinks would be interesting and "possible", with an inevitable touch of the author's prejudices.

 

Overall, the "strong UN" aspect would be the bit I would have the hardest part accepting. Even with the aid of supers, I can't see it ever being able to develop a support base independent of the permanent members of the Security Council, and particularly the US. Making the change from rubber stamp to independent force is a big step.

 

I have enough problems accepting the existence of UNTIL!

 

Still, if I could learn to ignore this problem, I could use it happily enough. And the "apocalyptic Castro" nonsense could actually be fun, in a twisted way...

Re: Good "Four of a Kind"'s...

If you're not too attached to the Theme idea, you could assign the four characters personalities, and give them powers to match. For example, "the impetuous one" might have fire or speedster type powers, and so on.

Re: Spider-Man Death Toll : The Bronze Age started with a Vengeance

Also' date=' I agree that the [i']heroes[/i] weren't necessarily getting "darker" right away, but the "world" seemed to be getting darker. Not that bad things hadn't happened before, and I am hardly a comics scholar, but it seems like they were getting more concentrated.

DC killed off Black Canary's husband in 1969. This was their excuse for her crossing from Earth-2 to Earth-1, and allowed her to get together with Green Arrow. Larry Lance wasn't exactly a major character, of course.

DC also killed off Alfred in the early-mid 60s, but brought him back. The kill off was part of a general revamp of Bat-mythology which they did then. I gather the TV series had something to do with the revival.

Re: "Use the Source, Fluke..." or Does you campaign have a central rationale?

Count me in the "anything goes" camp.

I don't generally have a lot of supers in my games, so each one is highly improbable to begin with.

Yesterday I wrote down a list of villains from the official CU I would be using in my next campaign: Thorn, Dr Macabre, Zorran, an unspecified Energy Projector, and "some bunch of aliens". I might also use Black Harlequin and Franklin Stone, and I will almost certainly add a mad scientist or two.

Atlantis, the Lemurians and the Empyreans definitely exist in my universe.

That's a pretty good summary of the range of origins I use:

Hidden Lands, Aliens, Mad Scientists, Theme villains, Wizards and maybe a radiation accident or two. The latter is by far the rarest category.

Re: DEX Averages

My general standards are:

Mentalists, Energy Projectors: 20-26

Martial Artists: 20-30

Speedsters: 23-33

Bricks: 20-33

Yes, you read that right.

Superman is a viable character conception in my campaigns.

I am considering a lower powered game, where nearly everybody except the Speedsters and some Bricks will have 20 Dex (or less). Likewise, nearly everybody will have 4 Spd (or less), apart from the same exceptions.

Re: What graphic novels should I get?

And as for the Bat, I have my eye on the 3-part Knightfall and the 5-part No Man's Land. I'll just have to sell my car first...

And after we suggested so much Bat stuff, we are reminded that one person's cr*p is another person's treasure...

Re: Schmucks?

Of course the real way to stop the megavillains is to trick them into attacking Hudson City.

Then they'd have to deal with you-know-who.

Or failing that, the power-nerfing effect that operates there would allow someone to rip the rubber mask off Takofanes' head.

"I'd have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those meddling kids!"

Re: What graphic novels should I get?

Watchmen (Alan Moore)

Batman: The Killing Joke (Alan Moore)

Batman: Year One (Frank Miller)

Elektra: Assassin (Frank Miller)

Are you seeing a pattern here?

Re: Schmucks?

IOW' date=' you get the GM to hand you the victory gift-wrapped, without having to work for it and actually earn it.[/quote']

 

If your GM is a talentless hack, yes.

 

But if your GM isn't, there will be plenty of reasons why being "the only one who can stop Takofanes" is a Disadvantage.

 

See the Lord of the Rings for further details.

Re: Schmucks?

However' date=' I'd like to issue a challenge to those who think that 350ers can deal with Tak or DD, to build a few sample 350 characters who can do so.[/quote']

 

You take the disadvantage "Chosen One", as well as a few others like "Watched by forces of Good", and so on.

 

It's called destiny, although it might be better to spell it Destiny.

Re: Are there ever too many points?

What you call "power escalation' date='" I call "spending the XP they've earned."[/quote']

 

Which is fine, I guess.

 

Of course, XP is a mechanism intended to enable the game to model what happens in the comics, rather than vice versa, so "power escalation" is probably the technically more correct term.

 

Anyway, I _prefer_ to set my universes a bit earlier in the escalation cycle. That's irrelevant, of course. But I also make use of megavillains. They're too interesting to be ignored.

 

But that just raises the question: "how come Galactus hasn't eaten the Earth?", doesn't it?

Re: Are there ever too many points?

I guess the idea that a mythic figure should be of mythic proportions is hideously wrong and evil. . .

No. But Thor wasn't of "mythic proportions" when he started. He is now, arguably.

The entire Marvel Universe has undergone power escalation over the years. None of the characters introduced in the early '60s had more than a fraction of their present day capabilities.

Also, there is no particular resemblance between Thor the mythological entity and Thor the character in the MU. The latter is one of the finest examples of McMythology ever sneezed.

You can build him any way you like.

Re: Are there ever too many points?

I've got an 800 point Hawkeye lying around somewhere' date=' but he's got Nuclear Warhead arrows and everything.[/quote']

 

Green Arrow used a nuclear warhead arrow against Starro the Conqueror once. It didn't work.

 

GA doesn't have problems with running out of things to spend points on. He's a cheesy Batman ripoff, who can buy anything Batman can.

 

Of course, your continuity may vary.

 

Perhaps I should say, _in the Golden and Silver Ages_, GA was a cheesy Batman ripoff...

 

---

 

I like Flying Thunder Goats.

 

Thor, like Green Arrow, is an example of massive power escalation. He's a fine example of a character who started on a fairly modest point total, and racked up the experience.

 

Hmm. Actually, GA probably started on more points.

Re: What Do You Want To See?: DC: The Animated Series

Okay, that sounds about right now that you mention the darkness. I never actually went through the original Fell's Point material in detail, but I did see a few excerpts and you're more than right.

 

Still, putting the DC:TAS material in a community near Hudson City would (IMO) be a nice touch, for all the reasons already mentioned.

The bit of Fell's Point stuff I saw reminded me of the darker Batman graphic novels. DC:TAS characters can do that stuff too, but it isn't all they do.

I think that DC:TAS needs to be set in a pretty big city, in order to get the proper Gotham/NYC feel. While the Question and Green Arrow have both been based in smaller towns, most of the source material is firmly big city. And that suggests that the DC:TAS material would have to be in Hudson City itself, because "big cities" don't just grow on trees.

Besides, it seems wasteful not to take advantage of all the neat stuff Steve is working on for us.

All Hudson City really needs is a few warehouses full of giant props and it's perfect.

Re: Schmucks?

For those who haven't been paying attention, the NPC Hero Brigade has been calling for the existence of *teams* of heroes who can take on megavillains, one-two teams per megavillain, and at least not get themselves killed.

 

Thats one team of ~six heroes versus one villain. We want the heroes to be at least reasonably capable of driving the villain off without needing either a borrowed nuclear weapon or a Gift from the GM.

I'd be happy with one or two teams who can deal with the megavillains.

How powerful should they be? Well, they don't have to be as powerful as the megavillains. You don't defeat megavillains by flying up to them and punching them in the face. At least, not until you've messed with them a bit.

They do, however, need to be able to cope with the megavillains' flunkies. 250-350 point characters would be stretched to do this.

Ultimately, megavillains can only be defeated through roleplaying. That's pretty much part of the definition. NPC heroes don't roleplay, but at least can be assumed to be doing it offstage if necessary.

I should point out that while I am one of the advocates of the possibility of building JLA/Avengers type characters on 350 points, I am actually saying _starting versions_ of these characters, not experienced versions. For example, the version of the Flash I would build would be the version that appeared in Showcase #4. He would be able to do what that character did, and thus be a faithful portrayal of the Flash, but he wouldn't be able to do many of the things that the Flash was later protrayed as doing.

Similarly, it is possible to create an accurate rendition of the Batman from Detective Comics #27 on 200 points. He can't do all the stuff the present day version of the character can do, but he is a faithful rendition of the Batman at a certain point in his career.

As for Thor and Daredevil, well, I doubt that my version of Daredevil would be able to deal with my version of Thor in combat. Then again, Thor doesn't have a whole lot of skills...

If you are doing faithful renditions of the characters on low point costs, their relative power levels should actually be maintained. If Daredevil can't hit harder than a tough human, that's all he should be able to do. If Thor can, well, he can. Of course, there are enough bugs in my designs that Thor would probably need to use an area-effect attack to hit DD, but once he did...

Back to the main point: what we need might not be NPC hero teams so much as NPC "space gods". That is, we have various powerful but inactive beings hanging around, who, if they are tracked down, cajoled, bribed and flattered by the PCs, might actually condescend to provide assistance in neutralising the Bad Guys. Wanambi Man might be a good canonical example. He probably just sits around in his interdimensional limbo, but if you find him, and ask very nicely, he might provide you with some useful assistance or information against Takofanes.

Similarly, going and hassling the Empyreans might be of some use in dealing with other threats. Or the Atlanteans, or the Perseids, or whoever...

The Big Bads don't try to conquer the world every month. When they do, it should be important. Fobbing the job of stopping them off on a bunch of faceless NPCs seems wrong.

You stop the Big Bads by roleplaying, not by combat. Trying to do it the other way around gets you a bunch of bruises, and doesn't work. And that's true whether you are built on 250 points or 2500...

But yes, we do need a team or two of megaheroes. Just Because.