assault

Re: I want to run a Bad Comics game

Acronym:

Paranormal Intelligence Network - Human Enhancement and Augmentation Department.

Paranormal Intelligence National Headquarters - Executive Action Division.

etc.

P.I.N.H.E.A.D. agents can be readily constructed from published Champions material. The Champions genre book will provide suitable costumes and some relevant gadgets. VIPER provides suitable training packages (change the names a little to lose the snake theme), as well as heavy weapons that can be used as P.I.N.H.E.A.D.'s Fusion Blast Guns.

Hmm... A typical P.I.N.H.E.A.D. agent will be a mutant ninja cyborg with a FBG. You probably wouldn't get that into 350 points, even allowing for their ninja training being provided by the Wannabe clan. You would probably have to go with 450, perhaps with standard superheroic guidelines for DC limits and so on.

Re: I want to run a Bad Comics game

Actually, it would be a hoot. As good as running Bad Silver Age games, and for the same reasons.

Your campaign would need a snazzy title... How about:

"B.A.D.F.I.S.T.: Countdown to Mardi Gras"?

Scenario design would be easy. Lots of posing, interspersed with violence. Romantic subplots ("Sex") would be common, but would be affected by the side-effects of steroid abuse.

Re: Request for plot ideas for an Anarchist villain team.

If you haven't seen Fight Club (or read the book)' date=' do so. I guarantee you will find Tyler Durden's philosophy useful in understanding the motivations and methods of an anarchist.[/quote']

 

I have to say that that isn't where I would start...

 

That character is a Hollywood joke. I'm surprised they didn't give him a swastika tattoo.

 

I'm no fan of real anarchists, but they deserve better than this kind of abuse.

Re: Request for plot ideas for an Anarchist villain team.

You could always make them anarchists, rather than lunatics.

Re: Nudity and Sex in comics books

Juggernaut, well after he selpt with She-Hulk, for some reason turned good. He was placed on one of the X-teams, where he proceeded to constatnly butt-heads with Iceman (who reasonably enough didn't trust him). Juggy, it turns out, was working the inside for a New Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, with a kind of second-rate cast. Black Tom had become pretty powerful (somehow). Juggy winds up rebeling against the New Brotherhood because of what they did to the kid, with whom he'd struck up a friendship.

 

...

 

My opinion: Avoid the X-books except Astonishing X-men, which is not only well written and not as convoluted, but manages to dodge all of this overhead that I mentioned above.

Frankly, it sounds like they are so desperately out of ideas that the whole thing should be cancelled...

I mean, presumably this stuff sells, and it might even be new to people who haven't been reading comics for eons, but it's just so unbelievably cliched...

Pre-Crisis Superman was more original than this. And more consistent in characterisation. And more fun.

Re: "So, Thor hits Superman with Mjolnir..."

Superman's ... Power Defense ...

I'm not sure Superman actually has Power Defence. He seems to suck against all drainers, not just magical ones. The Parasite is the classic example.

He might have some Power Defence if it's required to defend against environmental hazards, but he doesn't seem to have a form of it usable in combat.

Edit: Most of the "normal" weapons built using Drain or Transform seem to involve limitations like "must hit non-armoured hit location" and so on, which would stop them from working against Superman, as long as "non-armoured" is actually read as "has no resistant defences". Presumably most gas effects would be stopped by appropriate Life Support.

OK, so he might have a _little_ bit of Power Defence. Just not lots.

Re: The Brat Pack

I believe he was upset over the DC "vote to kill off Jason Todd" thing' date=' among other stuff.[/quote']

 

Yes, I gather that is correct.

 

Another factor was his falling out with DC over them censoring his Swamp Thing work. Admittedly, "the Swamp Thing meets Jesus" might have been a little controversial, but...

Re: Hitler in a jar

So' date=' what's your best Hitler-in-a-jar plot?[/quote']

 

My favourite plot is "borrowed" from The Golden Age, a DC limited series from a few years ago, potentially crossed over with the scene in this post:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=540414&postcount=12

 

Basically, you have another infiltrator already in a strategically chosen body. He/she/it becomes the world's most popular/prominent superhuman, and eventually acquires a suitable body for Hitler.

 

At some point, you start dropping hints to the PCs that not all is as it seems. Take your time about advancing the plot. Eventually, things hit the fan with a vengeance...

Re: The Brat Pack

Never even heard of it before this post. Now you guys got me curious.

It's actually worth reading, although Maximortal isn't, IMHO.

Very nasty, and deliberately so.

It shows Iron Age "heroes" as what they really are.

Re: [4color] Why do you dislike the Iron Age style? (No flames, ok?)

None of this shit happened in America.

(Flammable response reluctantly deleted.)

Despite all the stuff I didn't write, I dislike "people suck" arguments as well.

These arguments are stupid, elitist, and inaccurate. Politically, incidentally, they are deeply conservative, since obviously these stupid people are incapable of running their own lives, and need to be supervised by their betters. This is a variant on the kinds of argument used by authoritarian governments to justify their existence.

So people who think people suck, suck.

Re: Romantic Villians

One of the most sympathetic villains in editions previous to the current one didn't make it through: Shamrock.

He would be a character that could be worked up as a potential romantic interest without much difficulty. He's a Believer in a Cause, who is a "villain" because of his actions in support of that cause.

You might be able to find some others if you dug deep enough.

Of course, not being female, my judgement of what is attractive is rather limited.

Not everyone would be able to get over negative opinions of Shamrock's cause, either, so you might need some other alternatives too.

I can't think of any examples from the source material, but I will repeat my suggestion of checking older edition material.

Swashbuckling rogues and "heroes on the other side" are probably usually the best. "I don't want to do this but I have no choice" might work, but these characters may come off as slightly weak personalities. Of course, a heroic death, of whatever duration, will redeem them.

Ah! Actually, you might want to look at various "reformed villain" characters in the source material. Marvel in particular has a fair few such characters. Some had a fair bit of history before they changed sides.

Re: Avenger/Justice League in the "real" world

Simply stated..... our society... our world could not and would not tolerate a team of Superheroes...

 

What I can see happening is each major government would race to create theor own team... for National Defense. The Supers would become the next atomic bomb.....

Well, you are right that governments would seek to establish their own teams.

But... that would be one of the loopholes that a non-government team could seek to exploit.

They would make a deal: "we will make ourselves available to defend your country when required, as long as you don't interfere with us the rest of the time."

In effect, they become reservists in that country's military, subject to call-up in an emergency, but carrying on their civilian lives the rest of the time.

This would, of course, place them in direct opposition to the Wanderer-style world conquerors.

Obviously they would only be authorised to operate in certain countries. Crossing borders would be a bit tricky, but it could be manageable. Sometimes they might cross borders without permission...

It is quite likely that there will be rival groups of this kind, working with and for different allies/patrons, and it's probable that they would end up in conflict sooner or later, unless they established some kind of arrangement.

Re: The Golden Age Recruitment Drive

Advanced Tech means if you could have it in the eighties you are almost Buck Rodgers.

My favourite high tech Golden Age character is Air Wave.

His main piece of high tech equipment was - a mobile phone.

He could also roller skate along phone lines. And owned a parrot.

That's what it took to be a superhero in the Golden Age.

...

Oh, yeah... He had a pretty decent punch, and a bunch of useful skills, too. He would have actually been useful to have around.

Re: Avenger/Justice League in the "real" world

"Crusaders"' date=' the ones who would feel a moral imperative to use their powers to change the world and pursue a political cause (think "Authority"). They would be the ones most resembling classical superheroes, since they would act selflessly, from a moral imperative. But in all likelihood their mindset and modus operandi would resemble much more the Authority (even if they would be likely many more different crusader superbeings and supergroups, figthing for different ideals, like environmentalism, vigilantism, fascism, socialism, anarchism, etc.) in deeds and acts. Crusaders superbeings would just deem, or openly decalre, themselves unbound from normal laws, and challenge anyone to defy their status.[/quote']

 

That's assuming a complete lack of subtlety, and a "hit it until it stops moving" approach to problem solving. While that's very four colour, it's not necessarily the best approach in a "realistic" world.

 

I suspect most supers would simply avoid the problem by keeping a fairly low profile.

 

(Personally, I would use a mixture of that and a discreet "understanding" with a friendly government or two.)

 

We should note, though, that the Authority option is very strongly connected to a particular set of assumptions. A quick glance at both the (early) JLA and other "realistic" titles like Zenith and Marvelman/Miracleman show that other options are possible.

 

The JLA had a bunch of characters that simply weren't interested in meddling in human politics. The Martian Manhunter and Aquaman simply didn't care. Wonder Woman was on a mission, and Green Lantern was a subordinate. That really only left Flash, Batman and Superman as potential world changers. Batman, of course, had his own obsessions, which only left the Flash and Superman.

 

It's easy enough to sneer at Superman, but he has had experience with a whole bunch of world conquerors, some of whom, no doubt, every bit as benevolent in their intentions as any "pro-active" superhuman you care to imagine. And he's seen where this leads to...

 

Superman's philosophy is not necessarily naive. It is, in part, the result of experience. As such, it compares favourably with many of the alternatives, especially those of a more testosterone fuelled variety.

 

And, quite frankly, it would be good to have someone like him around to keep the more "realistic" psychos in line.

Re: Avenger/Justice League in the "real" world

I know some hate them' date=' but the classic "alien ends up adopting Earth as his new home" bit would work great. It lets you get an excuse for really advanced Tech, and the character in question often adopts the team as his or her new family which leads to some good cohesion.[/quote']

 

Irrelevantly...

 

A few days ago I was doing an analysis of superhero origin types. The early JLA was particularly neat.

 

Founding members:

Superman (alien)

Martian Manhunter (alien)

Green Lantern (human, working for aliens)

Wonder Woman (lost world mystical "alien")

Aquaman (lost world mystical "alien")

Flash ("radiation accident")

Batman (human)

 

Other early members:

Hawkman (alien)

Atom (kind of radiation accident)

Green Arrow (human)

 

So, that's 3 aliens, 2 lost world "aliens", 1 alien stooge, and 4 non-alien related more-or-less humans.

 

(I've ignored sidekicks and supporting cast.)

 

It looks more like an occupation force than anything else.

Re: Avenger/Justice League in the "real" world

Basically what would you like to see? What would you fear the most?

The major problem would be that the supers would most probably reflect the orthodox political views of their societies, and, worse, would be inclined to act on them.

For that reason, it would be preferable for there to be some reason why the supers don't do this.

Otherwise you would have superhuman wars, or else you have a bunch of superhuman Donald Rumsfelds running around. Or you have a war, and the winners remake the world in their own sick and twisted image.

There definitely needs to be something preventing this.

Re: Need ideas for a revised CU timeline

Quote:

Originally Posted by assault

Dashiell Hammett: The Maltese Falcon. (The ultimate McGuffin!)

 

 

never read it

 

Very few people have read it, these days. But a lot of people have seen the movie, which is a classic!

Re: Need ideas for a revised CU timeline

PS : i already included things from Burroughs (Tarzan' date=' John Carter), Poe (Arthur Gordon Pym) or Verne. If you have other authors in mind ...[/quote']

 

HG Wells: The Time Machine(1895), The Island Of Dr. Moreau (1896), The Invisible Man (1897) and The War of the Worlds (1898).

 

Arthur Conan Doyle: Sherlock Holmes, The Lost World.

 

Dashiell Hammett: The Maltese Falcon. (The ultimate McGuffin!)

 

etc...

Re: The Ages of Comics. Threw a Glass Dorkly

I always think of Watchmen' date=' Miracle Man and Dark Knight Returns as the real start of the Iron Age, and Martial Law as marking the rustiest Iron. OTOH, I was out of comics by the time Image came and went.[/quote']

 

Yes, I'd go with this chronology. The Bronze Age started in the early 70s, and ended in the mid 80s. The Iron Age is the period since, more or less.

 

Of course, all of these "ages" are rather arbitrary. In every case there was more continuity with the previous period than differences. This is even true of the Golden and Silver Ages, where the publication of superhero titles came very close to completely ending, giving a greater and sharper division than between any subsequent periods.

 

Having said that, if we do take the Iron Age as starting in the mid-80s, it's been going for the better part of twenty years now. This makes it the longest "age" to date.

 

I'm not quite sure what this means - is everything being produced at the moment so undistinguished that none of it is of any historical importance?

Re: The Ages of Comics. Threw a Glass Dorkly

Late Silver Age/Early Bronze Age: Social and personal issues begin to surface' date=' at first masked as their superpowered equivalent: you have the lonely superhero that lacks companionship because of his monstrous appearance, the money-starved superhero that is poor because his superhoirc activities keep him from engaging full-time in gainful job, social prejudice is directed vs. mutants, etc. Every hero should have a similar long-standing "superproblem". [/quote']

 

It think it's useful to separate these two out more.

 

Late Silver Age is where you get married couples, monstrous heroes, etc. Despite this greater realism, plotlines are essentially similar to those of the earlier period. Except that in some cases there is a conscious resort to camp... (Villains are often Commies in both this and the earlier part of the Silver Age).

 

Early Bronze Age is where you get drug addiction, major NPC deaths and "relevance". The most powerful characters are (briefly) down-powered, and operate on a "more human"/less cosmic" scale. Some go on road trips, encountering the evils of racism and so on. Heavy handed left wing rants replace heavy handed right wing rants.

 

---

 

For what it's worth: I've been reading some of the wonderful Green Lantern/Green Arrow stories from 1971/1972. Very interesting.

 

From a Champions viewpoint, the most interesting part is the degree to which both characters were powered down. You could easily build a reasonable approximation of them on 350 or so points.

 

On a political level, these stories, and others from the same period, are rather intriguingly clumsily left wing. Despite their ineptitude, they compare rather favourably with the cynical "left wing" rants that pop up in the Iron Age.

 

I generally spend more time collecting reprints of Golden and Silver Age material than I do collecting early Bronze Age, but I may have to change this in the future. There was a lot of genuinely neat stuff back then.

 

And yes, I already have a first draft of a character sheet for Green Lantern 1972... He doesn't even have a force field!

Re: World In Crisis..Idea help please

Is there a reason why you are not using the standard friendly government groups like UNTIL and PRIMUS?

Why would he need a reason? It's his world, after all.

Go with Psych Limitations like "Must Protect Innocents" and "Will not Kill" for golden agers, everyone should have this. For Iron Age, these same disadvantages should be discouraged.

I don't see why "Must Protect Innocents" would be discouraged in an Iron Age game.

Re: Starting points for rookies in established campaign

My take would be that it would depend on the magnitude of the discrepancy in points.

You see, I tend to encourage characters to take lots of skills, and to broaden out their power sets, rather than to simply power up. That means that a character with up to, say, a couple of hundred points more than their starting value isn't _necessarily_ going to be all that much more formidable a combatant than a starting character. There will be a difference, but the starting character isn't going to be useless in combat.

More importantly, perhaps, the starting character will hopefully be of value out of combat as well...

There is a point where all this breaks down, of course, and it doesn't make much sense going back to square one, but I've never played a game that lasted that long.

Re: Crisis of Infinite Boredom

Assault would, of course, go to the pub and find people to talk to.

If he was feeling conscientious, he would go to an underworld pub, and take advantage of his ridiculously high perception rolls.

Or he'd watch TV, read a book(!) or even go shopping...

The pub (brawl) option would probably be the one he would use in play.

Re: In need of a good origin story

As I mentioned' date=' the jerk-ness will be pretty much gone once he discovers that he killed a couple friends, and crippled his girlfriend. He will become very repentant. Again very Spidey-esque.[/quote']

 

It's a lot darker than Spidey. Spidey didn't kill Uncle Ben.

 

Furthermore, Spidey's little incident provided him with a motive to adventure. This guy's accident mainly provides him with a motive to NOT adventure.

 

I would consider lightening up his story a little. It's very dark and provides no particular heroic motive.

 

But that's just my opinion, of course.

Re: In need of a good origin story

Ok gang since you were all so helpful with ideas I thought I would share the origin story I came up with. It was vehemently approved by the GM with much applauding. It will seem unfinished, but that is because we are going to be roleplaying the actual acquisition of our powers and what not. Hope you enjoy it, and I would be happy to read your feedback.

It's a good story.

My only reservation is that Zack comes across as a bit of an idiot. I prefer my own PCs to be more sympathetic. But that's an irrelevant matter of taste.

You've certainly established a striking image - it's easy to imagine the artwork.

Well done.