Marcus

Ablative, with an AID to get the Ablative up, with a Side Effect on the AID to represent Stun and/or Body Loss.

Mental Battery Guy has 4d6 of Aid, Any Power of a Mentalism Special Effect, All Powers Simultaneously (+2): 120 Character Points. Mental Battery Guy also buys +20 Maximum Effect for his Aid, allowing it to increase affected Powers by a Maximum of 44 Points.

Does the +20 Maximum Effect Cost:

a.) 10 Points, as implied by the example in Adjustment Powers Section of the 5th Ed Book, as well as the 'Attack Nanobots' Power from the spacers toolkit (wherin a Heavily-Advantaged AID manages to nonetheless increase its maximum points of effect via AIDing itself)

b.) 30 Points (10 Base Point, +2 Advantage) as is the case in Hero Designer, and as I -think- Ive seen elsewhere in 5th ed products (cannot recall, though)

If there is some clarification of this somewhere in the FAQ, I have not found it, and apologize for wasting your time.

RE: Destructability, et. al...

I've really enjoyed this thread so far. Some comments/occurences based on my own experience, in my own extended, local campaign:

After 4.5 years, the party has grown from 250 to 370 'ish' points, with one regular player who came in on the very happy side of 5th ed grandfathering 'way up' at 460 points.

As far as we can tell, we are the lowest powered things in the entire gaming universe. Our GM's take on the few surviving X-Men? 750+ points. All of them. Emphasis on the plus. Every NPC we fight? 2 DCs, 5 DEF, 1 SPD, 2 CV better. And thats not the menaces. Around the corners lurk the Giant-Government-Mutant-Killer-Robots, who after FOUR YEARS no PC has dared fight. He bills the things like 'Agents' from the Matrix (You know, the whole 'Noone who has tried to stand and fight them... Not One')... and judging from the effect on the other (now-dead) and then more powerful superheros its a valid billing. Then I open up 'Spacers Toolkit' and think to myself "Hmm. Superheros vs Space Ships-Never Happen". I consider that Giant-Killer-Robots have to be at least as good as tanks (else why build Giant-Killer-Robots, other than to cackle madly?) and realize that a pushed, dice-cap haymaker wont dent a modern MBT.

All this sounds like ranting, but it leads to an interesting occurence: 'Stealth Attack Itis' or 'Saying it without Active Points'. These are the things that PCs who feel outweighed, outclassed, and helpless spend their hard earned XP's buying a multi-slot for. When you see 'Penetrating' 'Autofire' 'Killing' and, somewhere else on the sheet 'Autofire Penalty Skill Levels'... you know whats coming. Most PCs (in my experience) would rather just have a 10d EB, or at the most extreme a 4d6RKA, and get on with the blasting of things. Once players learn (and they do, eventually, learn) that these things cannot, and will not, impact their enviornment (at least, not the ENEMY parts of the enviornment... the same 8d6 EB that just barely scratches Dr. Badguys paint will, when missile reflected, reliably near-kill a DPNC...) they start shopping 'Usable-As-Attack' land, they fall in love with Suppress to Body, and they discover that the words 'Sweep' 'Rapid Autofire' 'Penalty Skill Levels' and 'Penetrating', taken together, may be their last best hope for survival.

Whats the solution? Im not sure. For my own game, I can just hope that something, at some point, happens to make the hero's feel like something other than the Other Guys, the people who are doing the job because the people who SHOULD be doing it are afraid (or too smart?) to do so. For the rest of the CU... I like both the double-body and damage-per-hex solutions (though not on my growth character for the latter, please??!!).

Just my 2c

Hmm... see, if my GM came along and told me that I was taking penalties to hit with my 1 Hex AOE 'Accurate' attack because I couldnt see the whole target, I'd just go get a regular 1 Hex AOE... 'Accurate' 1 Hex AOEs are (IMHO) an example of a player taking concept over point-crunchyness (lets face it, a +1/2 advantage on a 40 AP attack to get 60 Active Points... dude, just buy 10 2-point CSLs. Unless the target has a DCV >13, your still in the same relative boat.. AND you can, instead, buy a bigger attack and stay within AP cap)

Unfortunately, for +5 points, you get 'another gun to use when the first gun is broken'.

If you want to do 8d6RKA ~twice~, autofire to two, or buy the power twice.

(Not that the points really matter... lord, can I borrow your GW to throw at my GM's sentinels?)

One top-flight 'Lord of the City and Surrounding Enviorns' Vampire Overlord type, loosely converted from White Wolf Methusalah NPC.

Some details not in yet (personality, appearance, etc).. character is a WIP

Marcus Halliward Smythe

Player:

Total Character Cost: 2871

Disadvantage Points: 145

Base Points: 2300

Experience Required: 426

Total Experience Available: 426

Experience Unspent: 0

Hmm... Lightning Calculator Talent, OAF Casio.

Utterly off topic-

As a ferret owner (retired) of many years, I just wanted to wish you good luck with Llewelyn. Medical care for the little guys has come a long way since we owned them... few lived much past six in my day.

Rember, figure out exactly what the power ~does~

This power causes an explosion, when a certain condition is fulfilled. It can hit your friends, and innocent bystanders, so in this case I think a trigger, rather than the more focused, less 'painful' damage shield is appropriate. In many cases, an opponent could sit outside your own blast radius and rock your world with ranged attacks whilst you fry your friends.

But, still, with careful planning its a neat offensive power, so its not a side effect disad, IMHO.

Id say EB, Explosion (or AOE Radius), Triggered, maybe with a limitation to throw no more dice than the incoming BOD damage.

Consider that the guy with the powers bought full cost can combine attack and zorch some poor SOB with all three of them.

The Multipower cant.

Also, adjustment powers abound in my games, so Frameworks really DO hurt some times.

Then its probably a Physical Limitation. The Asbergers I have Known couldnt 'make an Ego Roll'... they were quite physically incapable of functioning in front of a crowd... in fact, despite being quite creative and intellectually capable with words (written down, or conversing 1on 1) incapable of enjoying a roleplaying game due to the sheer number of people involved.

Also, I've seen the repetitive motions associated with the stronger forms with Asbergers... something else to keep in mind.

I suppose you... could.... ~chuckles~ and probably should, if we were pointing it all out.

Heck, in one of my games im looking at playing the Son of Superman... Kar-El (aka Carl Kent)... and was knocking around buying a couple of cosmetic transforms (Normal People into people who say things like 'Look, up in the sky') Extra Presence, only usable with Persuasion, only for noble purposes (No! You dont understand! These people should be your friends!) and some extra strength and defenses that cost endurance merely for being ~on~, requiring Incantations to activate (Alright, thats ENOUGH!) Perhaps only usable at half or less stun, and/or when the party is getting its tail kicked.

Is it Geoff who has the 'Dont worry too much about buying powers the Exact Right Way' FREd sigline... its terrifyingly true..

A River? TK, AOE, only for moving objects in one direction, reduced by range (TK is strongest in the 'main flow' of the river). 0END PER UNC. Change Enviornment, as above, to get the color and cloudyness. NND 1d6 Can Do Body after Stun Exhausted (+1/2) 0END PER etc.. Defense is being able to breath underwater. Minutia Mavens might also go for the Cosmetic Transform (Thing into Wet Version of Same Thing).. a Body Drain vs Metal and Wood objects (with a HUGE 'effects over time' limitation)... lets see, what else..

Are we buying the Fish? Summon Fish, no worries. Hmm...

Side note.. the Mississippi probably costs more than the JLA. Argueably, this is as it should be.

In the purely silly category...

As a result of a debate with a fellow player over the (percieved by me) innate sillyness of 'Stretching' as a primary superheroic power (espc. the form made infamous by Misseur Richards, no offense!) it occured to me that there had to be even SILLYIER concepts out there.

My crowning acheivment... the Fishmonger.

Multipower, limited charges, charges only recover at the dockside when the boats come in.

EB, double-knock-back (Tuna)

RKA (Swordfish)

Autofire EB (Sardines, can of)

NND vs life support, explosion (day-old-haddock)

Entangle (Octopus, of course)

and the list, as it were, goes on.

Theres one from our current Party Brick in my champions game thats becomeing famous locally...

-Brick, to any various and sundry evil.

"You know what the problem with being a villian is?"

"No, what?"

~CRUNCH~ "It'll make your nose bleed."

Then theres our very Wally-West stlye speedster, from the fight with the Supermenace Chupacabra...

"Goat-sucker? GOAT-SUCKER? I dont know if I could put on my tights and go out in the quest of evil named GOAT SUCKER. Here, hang on a second, Ill get a goat.."

Well, from what I understand a JLA vs Avengers crossover is in the making... which perhaps will go a long way to giving us a 'canon' answer to this one.

I suppose the real answer is how smart either character is being that particular day and/or which one gets a clue quickest... both Thor and Superman frequently being walking, talking examples of 'Powers make you stupid'

Emerged, I like it alot. Id go a bit lower on Flash and Power defense than that, but otherwise, I like your idea as written.

The Way Ive Always Done It (Offical Value=0)

Hypothetical Damage Cap: 12D6, 60AP

Defense Cap: 30PD/ED, 15MD, 10Power Defense/Flash Defense, 5 LOW

Bricks will be-

60AP Offense

CV 6ish

Speed 5ish

Cap defense (brick may trade down speed to 4 to go a tiny bit over Game Cap offense or defense)

Blasters will be

50-60AP Offense

CV 8ish

Speed 6 ish

Defenses at 70% of full

Martials will be

45AP-50AP Offense

CV 10-11ish

Speed 6-7ish

Defenses at about 40-50%

Speedsters will be

40-45AP Offense (and thats WITH THE MOVE BYs, thank you)

CV 12-13 ish

Speed 7-8ish

Defenses 30% or less

These are obviously just guidelines, not in any way set in stone even in my own games. Many PCs dont shoe-horn nicely into categories, and shouldnt! But if you dont limit only the bricks and the slow blasters to game-cap offense, pretty soon theres a speedster move-bying entire enemy superteams in one long full move for 12+ dice each.

Shadowpup has the right of it.

And HKA is the SECOND most-abusive basic attack. (There one was a flying, invisible, HKA in one of my parties. That was pretty much his whole fight strategy... go invisible, make move-bys with the blades out and a martial manuver. Things-Just-Died)

HA is by far the first. Be-all-end-all dont go there awful, if you use it in certain ways.

Worm, I like that nearly as much as 'There are twelve tactical nuclear devices in the city. You have an hour to find them all. Do you intend to interfere with me, or start looking?'

For the sadistic in your GM circle, there might be..

no bombs

11 bombs (watch them LOOSE IT as the 11th hour approaches)

13 bombs (just cause im that kinda guy)

Okay, understand now. Cool. I still kinda like my version for letting proto-batman build a meaningful attack without a massive VPP, but I see what your doing with yours, to let the mage shoehorn every spell he knows into the VPP without making it a smooth bajillion potential active points.

So what your proposing is a 5 Point adder that doubles the 'Active Point' cap of the pool. Thus a hypothetical 30-point-pool, 45 control (Fully Cosmic) could instead be a 30 point pool, (15+5)x3 or 60 control pool that could boast a 60Active Point Power, so long as the limitations took it down to 30 real points or less.

Hmm... Ill have to knock the idea around in my head for a while. Might be a good way to give the gadgetter the ability to buy a gadget that had effects vaguely near dice cap, without requireing a massive investment. Im still a wee bit uncomfortable about something that might allow a character to get more Active Points of a single power out of the pool than the overall cost of the pool, but I suppose in some ways its morally similar to a very very flexible, and perhaps slightly more efficient, variable limiation power/powers.

And with that big STOP sign that stands over VPPs, warning off GMs.

(Sorry if I seem a lil jumpy about VPPs... im currently playing a 300 point character with nothing going for her but some stats and a fairly large, and perhaps foolishly flexible on the GMs part, VPP. In all honesty, my own self restraint is the only thing between the PC and apotheosis. Guess Mr. GM trusts me more than I tend to trust my own players....)

Id think some combination of no or reduced range penalty and reduced by range to simulate all kinds nifty spreading.

For a more realistic solution, just go with a quite slow reduced by range, and a combination of levels to offset-but-not-entirely-counterbalance the increased range penalties.

Then again, if you simply MUST hit the ninja, may I reccomend an Explosion, or for the sick junkies with too many spare points, an autofiring explosion? (Fully Automagic grenade launcher. 'Why Magic? Have you SEEN what it does to Martial Artists?'-Random Gunbunny PC I cant recall)

Put me down for liking comliness. Sad truth of the matter, in the really-for-real world, Physical Attractiveness is only barely less important in your ability to work your will on the world around you than Intelligence, Presence, or Hard Work (aka Ego). As much as we would like to hand-wave it all away, the truth of the matter is people are nasty, shallow, genetically-programmed little gits. Comliness kicks them in the 0 Point 'Pretty People are Right, Successful, Socially Desiriable, and Good' Very Common, Moderate psych lim.

This doesnt mean that all of my characters are stunningly georgeous, even though (in any even vaguely realistic setting) Com is point-for-point among the best things you could possibly spend points on (did I mention im a cynic?). Like a characters Strength, Intelligence, etc, its something that defines them. If people are roleplaying their PCs (and the GM their NPCs) appropriately, itll be worth every point paid for it, and moreso. Even if their not, its who they are, and its alot more than just 'special effect'.

That said, if you want to roll it up into PRE, and let people define the special effect of their PRE however they like, and/or buy limited PRE, I dont at all see a problem with that. I just like COM as a seperate stat for the granularity it gives. Granularity Good. Thats why were playing Hero, right?

Now, on the matter of STR... thats an old debate, and probably one not best revisited. At least ~I~ wont open a thread to that effect.

As always, my 2c. Your mileage may vary.

The number to hit a hex is to hit the SPECIFIC hex. Lets face it, by the rules I, with my 2 OCV (player is NOT agile) cant reliably hit a 2m hex. (Let us not get started on the inanity of of Champions, in general, in some respects. ). That said, given a 9mm pistol, at a range of 20 meters, I am most likely physically incapable of missing the Pyramids, espc if I choose to be at 0 DCV (and thus EASIER TO HIT than a hex!) to line up my shot.

Honestly, the rules cant defend you from carefully-enough enginnered Red Mage action. Only the GM can do that. Just say 'Not in my game' Its a wonderful phrase.