sbarron

Re: fair cost for strength that isn't strong

Hmm. I think if you wanted to you could probably Multiple Attack with a Choke/Choke Hold and another attack that does Body damage' date=' like a Squeeze to the head (neck). I think the issue of interpreting a particular physical move isn't going to matter much because the player simply chooses the Maneuver(s) to perform and goes with the effects from there. It's between him and the GM how to interpret those descriptively.[/quote']In the instance of the OP, it seems to matter a lot, because he says he is modeling specific RW martial artists and has friends with lots of experience with RW martial arts. The disconnect for them seems to be that they think the NND "Choke-hold" in the rules can't cause Body damage in Hero, but can cause Body damage in the RW.

 

So for them, the player isn't simply choosing a maneuver and reading the effect. He's choosing a maneuver, disagreeing with the effect, and attempting to model what they think the in-game effect should be based on RW experience.

Re: fair cost for strength that isn't strong

I think by definition, a rear naked choke is not a NND attack. Because with a rear naked choke, if you squeeze hard enough, you can crush the throat or tear the head off. It therefore is an attack that can do Body damage, and can not be an NND. I'd argue that "Choke Hold" is a special move that prevents that additional damage from being possible, and is therefore not the same as the rear naked choke, or whatever choke-hold you want to simulate from the real world.

The NND Choke-Hold from Hero is probably better defined as some sort of nerve or airway "pinch," that can only result in unconciousness (unless held long enough to switch to the drowning rules). I'm not aware of any such moves in the RW, but such things are not unheard of in the fictional subject matter Hero is attempting to emulate.

I've never had a problem with how Choke-hold operates in any of my games. But if its a problem for Ki-rin because of how RW chokes differ from Hero's Choke-hold, I think he might benefit to consider these distinctions.

Re: The Ten Things I Love About 6e and the Ten Things I hate about 6e

Where I come from' date=' sbarron, that's called "Railroading." My players don't like being Railroaded.[/quote']Where I'm from that's called good storytelling. I think we just view the game a little differently.

Re: The Ten Things I Love About 6e and the Ten Things I hate about 6e

It's the NONCOMBAT usage of Megascale. Travel Times are cut to virtually nothing' date=' which means that any plot the GM has that involves a ritual at time X or a specific action at time Y not only can, but will be interrupted long before it ever gets a chance to start. I'm not happy with an advantage in common use that eliminates all challenges in the way and forces every bad guy on Earth to plan for "What if so and so shows up?"[/quote']Any plot like that would require that the PC know the specific time and location of the event. And since the GM has control of when PCs get both of those pieces of info, I don't see this as a problem. In fact, I'd argue it only creates better scenarios for the PCs, because the drama of learning the specific time and place, and then actually intervening, can be pushed off much closer to the event itself.

Re: Hero 5 and Marvel Continuity

Mattingly just posted this in NGD, but the Marvel and Italy combination was just too to let it languish there...

Re: What's a good introductory adventure?

Keep on the Borderlands (and' date=' convieniently enough, our own Kestrel has a Hero System conversion).

Re: District 9

District 9 is the movie that Blomkamp and Jackson made instead of Halo. I'm hoping the success of District 9 helps get Halo made. And I'll be surprised if District 9 doesn't get a sequal now, too.

My wife also complained about plot holes, but I assured her that the sequal will make everything clear. {crossing fingers}

As a teaser, if you haven't seen it, here is the original short by the director that impressed Jackson enough to get District 9 made...

Alive in Joberg

Re: In Character: A Critical and Unauthorized Look at Disadvantages ...

He addresses what I think is a pretty silly part of the disad system - the frequency of hunteds and DNPCs. I only allow 8s as a GM' date=' and then of course I never actually roll.[/quote']Yeah, I've never rolled for Hunteds or DNPCs, either. I just allow the relative frequency guide what I'm trying to do.

 

Also, to say that "Hunted: Viper 11-" needs to show up every other adventure isn't really accurate. Sure, the long run average makes that true. But an 8 session Viper story arc could be followed by 8 sessions of no Viper and still only be 11-. Well, I guess if you're actually rolling, that's not true, because you'll get 11- 63% of the time. But if, like me, you think of 11- as being 50% of the time in this context, then Viper needs to be mentioned in half the sessions. Not every other session.

Re: How much should strength cost?

The mark of a Characteristic priced correctly is what happens when you cost it differently. My experience has been that at 2 points per point of Str' date=' Bricks tend to disappear. In heroic games people start buying Str with limitations like 'only to meet Str min of firearms'. Ambidexterity is an example of a Talent that's been over-priced, back when it was 3 points usually someone in a group would get it, I've never seen anyone get it since the price was upped to 9 points--they get Two-Weapon Fighting instead.[/quote']I agree that is a good measure, but I had different results for STR. In supers, everyone bought their STR up to at least 35 until we switched to 2 points per point. Then only the various forms of bricks bothered to buy it up past 30, and only true bricks got past 50. That fits my idea of the genre better.

 

In heroic games, STR at 2-for-1 still ended up with all characters have at least a 13. It's just too good a deal to pass up.

Re: How much should strength cost?

Besides, what's to stop a tank from taking an EC? What's to stop an EB from taking a 60 STR? Flying energy-blasting bricks are a staple of the genre.

 

Your method of "balancing" requires making very strict character classes.

But there are still legacy problems because STR is cheap, ECs and MPs make certain builds cheap, and not all characters can equally take advantage of those point savings. As you say, there is nothing to stop a EB from buying a 60 STR. Nothing except that it might not be appropriate for the character concept.

While flying energy-blasting bricks might be a staple in the genre, flying EBs that do not have 60 STR are too. Generally, between characters of equal ability, one build should not be more "cost effective" than the other. But one is much more cost effective than the other, simply because the game provides point breaks for characters that utilize power frameworks and high STR. I don't think that should be the case, and it looks like some of this will be addressed in the 6th Ed.

Lastly, I think the drawbacks on ECs and MPs are not nearly enough to make up for the point savings. As evidence, look at how many players choose to use these frameworks for their characters vs. those that don't. Drain is just not a common enough or powerful enough power to discourage a player from saving 60 pts for the same basic build. Not even close.

Re: My players have become villians

Thread necromancy aside, there is a lot of good stuff to be learned from this thread. For GMs and players alike. Two thumbs up! :thumbup:

Re: Jason Voorhees

I realize its a Friday the 13th movie, so its not like there is too much surprise in what happens. However, might a spoiler tag be appropriate somewhere near the description of the new movie?

Re: spells and active cost

Well not all of the limitations necessarily should make the spell easier to cast: a spell that only affects wolves isn't going to help focus the magic' date=' but concentration would. Almost like there are two different kinds of limitations. Some advantages might not even increase the magic skill roll, and others would.[/quote']CTaylor, mechanically speaking, you're wandering off the HERO reservation here. Personally, I think its great that you're thinking outside the box. I hope you can find a solution, even if it violates some of the core definitions of the HERO system. But most HERO gamers are instinctivley going to try to steer you back into the mainstream.

 

You've seen the response to your RSR Mod = Real Points/10 method. If you don't think that method will work for you now, you might have better luck designing another system for calculating RSR, and asking how everyone thinks that one works.

 

My new suggestion is that you make a list of each group of limits and advantages that you envision, and figure out how each group is going to effect the calculation of RSR. Then design a formula that gets you a RSR modifier that you think is appropriate.

 

It looks like you need a list for...

 

1) Limits that decrease the MSR.

2) Limits that don't decrease the MSR.

3) Advantages that increase the MSR.

4) Advantages that don't increase the MSR.

 

The formula itself could be anything. So long as it generally returns values that you think are appropriate for the MSR modifier and Mana use. NuSoard's straight subtraction system seems to work pretty well. Just be sure to only include advantages that increase difficulty, and limits that decrease it.

 

Or any other formula you might think up...

 

Good luck.

Re: spells and active cost

Why should the addition of the OAF Limitation make the RSR easier?

As for the OP, maybe you can just create your own system for calculating Mana Use and RSR for your game. Something like...

Mana Use/RSR Modifier

For this magic system, calculate Mana Use/RSR normally. Then, take the result and apply it to the following chart...

Revised Mana Use/RSR Modifier

If Limitations = 0.00 - 1.0, then Normal Mana Use/RSR Modifier * 1.00

If Limitations = 1.25 - 2.0, then Normal Mana Use/RSR Modifier * 0.75

If Limitations = 2.25 - 3.0, then Normal Mana Use/RSR Modifier * 0.50

If Limitations = 3.25 - 4.0+, then Normal Mana Use/RSR Modifier * 0.25

So, a standard 50 point power, no limits, still costs 5 Mana and -5 to RSR.

50 pt power with -2.25 in lims, would be 5*0.5 = 2.5, Hero rounding making it 2 Mana and -2 RSR.

50 pt power with -5 in lims would be 5*0.25 = 1.25, or 1 Mana and -1 RSR.

Obviously, you can set the break points where you want. Its an extra step, but a pretty easy one that should approximate what you want, I think.

Re: lim cost: semi-lockout

but any given sfx should be, by hero standard, as vulnerable as any other - otherwise a lim is appropriate.

 

so yeah human torch is problematic in water.

but amazonian princess may have magical flight and mutant superstrength and each of those is vulnerable to a counter issue -

 

so torch will be in trouble against water world, but wonder woman will be impaired against anti-mutant guy AND also against anti-amazonian ladd. So she should be say "half as effected" but also be affected twice as often, unless the gm is throwing more anti-fire than he is throwing either anti amazon or anti magic.

 

in practice, if anything, the "all my powers stem from one source" is more problematic to employ as a lim because it makes it harder to ikeep the character in play.

 

I can easily put the amazon into "no magic" situations since tht costs her her flight but still leaves her mutant super strong. Putting the torch into an underwater scene is rather pointless however - excepting of course very constrained circumstances and rebalancing the challenge to be "he is normal guy". capable.

 

imo...

Personally, I think the time for ECs has past. There may have been a time earlier in superheroic RPGs for trying to promote characters that have a common theme, especially if the players didn't have much experience with the genre. But that was 20-25 years ago. If you want a character with a strong theme, it should cost you just as much, and be just as effective as, a character with no theme at all. ECs just promote a specific type of character design, and that may not be what you want in your game.

PS: To say that "water" should be as common in a game as "anti-magic" + "anti-amazon" is a big stretch.

PPS: Wonder Woman's powers clearly don't fit into an EC. At least no EC other than "Wonder Woman" powers. If you wanted to create an Amazonian EC, that's fine. But it could only include stuff that all Amazons have. Which would leave out magic flight, magic lassos, and mutant strength.

Re: Favorite 60-point Power Construction

One I do like is this:

 

Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6+1, No Normal Defense (Energy Field Defences; +1), Does BODY (+1) (60 Active Points)

 

It is your basic lightsabre: cuts anything but energy fields. Even with 30 STR it only does 2d6 but it terrifies complacent players who are not used to taking Body damage

Re: Telepathy Power Ideas

Have you tried telepathy?

Re: Telepathy Power Ideas

I'm going with SBarron's idea...

Re: Training away DCV Penalties from Armor

I see I'm a little late to the party...

The Broken Kingdoms had Moving-in-Armor Levels, which for 5 points allowed a PC to cancel 1 level of encumbrance. You had to buy them armor type specific (leather, mail, or plate), and you couldn't buy more than 2 levels in any one type without GM permission. The cost was calculated as 2 seperate 5 pt levels, one for DCV and one for Dex based skills, limited by "can only cancel encumbrance penalties (-1/2)" and "Plate (or Leather, or Mail) Only" (-1/2).

It was under 4th edition rules, but it shows one way this can done pretty easily.

Re: Spreading Good WIll

If you can just find a way to convince every country that their team won the World Cup, and every American city that their team won the Superbowl, the entity would be on his way to his next target.

Re: Ninja Spring Leap

I agree it works pretty well as written. However, I might lower the 20", since its pretty costly as is. You could argue about the limit values if you wanted, though I think on their face these values seem pretty fair. Max 5" per spring being the big one because it limits 20" of flight down to 5". But what if someone bought 40" or only 10"? Maybe you should make that Max 1/4 flight per spring instead?

Ninja Leap

20" Flight:

-Requires 2" running movement to begin power (-1/4)

-Must have surface to change direction (-1/2)

-Requires Acrobatic Roll (-1/2)

-Max 5" per spring (-1)

 

AC: 40

RC: 12

 

Note - Failure prevents further movement (unless falling, in which case you use common sense).

Re: I am your NEMESIS!

The player has to figure out what powers he has in the middle of combat. A very dangerous thing to do. The character has at best a feeling of what his powers are but still has to guess. Guess wrong quick trip to the hospital ICU.

My problem with this power idea is that it seems to have a lot of handwaving built into it. If you define how the power works more clearly, it will probably make things easier to build, and more importantly, easier to play.

Re: Telepathy Power Ideas

I wonder if you need to buy the base telepathy at all? If you're basically only getting it to justify access to the supplemental powers that you have listed there, I'd say skip buying the base power. That way, you wouldn't have to worry about it providing mental awareness or being detectable.

Just have the sfx of your "supplemental" powers be undetectable surface level telepathy, and use those telepathy points for something else.

Re: Free equipment side discussion.

Of course, if we downgrade the official writeups of 'real' weapons to make them harmless to supers (1&1/2d6 RKA for assault rifles) then Dark Champions-type games become a lot less lethal, and loose some of their flavor.

 

Or in other words: downgrading things to match the superheroic game ignores the probems that will cause heroic level games.

 

I think the scaling issue is a reasonable optional rule, either for the Supers sourcebook or for whatever reincarnation Digital HERO recieves once 6E is up and running. Should it be in the main book? Certainly not; it is far too genre specific for that.

Re: Free equipment side discussion.

My goal was to make a system for a supers campaign where vastly different power level can interact in a meaningful way but to prevent very un-comic booky situations like a lucky shot killing a super villain. In one campaign a beat cop killed Red Rapier after he helped defeat the heroes. As a side effect this system should make free equipment work well in HERO.

A beat cop with a regular pistol or shotgun (a beat cops traditional weapons) shouldn't be able to kill anybody in a standard supers campaign, with one or even two shots, and certainly not a super. Unless he's using really heavy duty equipment for which he probably doesn't have the WF, or, you're using all the more dangerous rules that HERO provides you, and specifically suggests you not use in superheroic games. Even Viper agents have standard 6PD/6ED armor on, which will prevent death from 1d6+1 and 2d6 reduced penetration shots almost all day long.

I ask because I wonder if you're using the more dangerous, unpredictable optional damage rules. And if you are, and are now looking to add more rules to tone down those optional rules, you might be making things needlessly complicated.