Doc Democracy
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Posts posted by Doc Democracy
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Re: 2nd Thoughts About the Hit Location Chart
It might not make sense to reply to this' date=' since it was posted before my clarification above. But if you go back to the first post of this thread, you'll see that with regard to the STUN/BOD ratio the hand, vitals, thigh, and foot are lumped together at one extreme (with the head being close), while the arm, stomach, and leg are at the other. The problem is that similar body parts don't appear to be treated simarly.[/quote']But the chart doesn't deal in ratios, it deals in absolutes. Doing the same damage in an attack to the head will do more BODY and more STUN than in an attack to the legs.
The ratio you are looking at has no basis in absolute game effects. There may be some way to use ratios for information but it doesn't indicate the efficacy of attacking a particular hit location.
Doc
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Re: 2nd Thoughts About the Hit Location Chart
But it still seems to me that we ought to want the (modified) STUN/BOD ratios implied by the chart to make sense.Then I thnk you need more sophisticated ratios, simple ones don't do the job that you want - they do not indicate the gameplay result of doing BODY damage to various hit locations.
If I had a more instinctive grasp of math then I might be able to come up with something - I think I know what you are reaching for but I can't put it within your grasp.
Do you know what you want the ratios to indicate? What message you want them to send?
Doc
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Re: 2nd Thoughts About the Hit Location Chart
After rereading these examples' date=' I think they support my case. An unarmored 20 STUN, 10 BOD target can't be KO'd by a KA hit to the thigh or foot without being left dying (at or below 0 BOD). Such a target can be KO'd by a hit to the stomach or chest without being left in such a state.[/quote']Hmm. Now the problem with the chart is that it is inflexible. It assumes hits to vulnerable places (head, stomach, vitals) will cause more STUN than less vital places (thigh, foot, hand).
In general terms the chart is correct, these are the general results. Huge damage to an arm can tear it off and leave you conscious - it is rare for the same damage to the chest to similarly leave you conscious.
In practical game terms this is one of the things where I think the compromise to the middle result is necessary....
Doc
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Re: 2nd Thoughts About the Hit Location Chart
I don't understand what you are saying. What things don't happen in play?I quoted it - "..taking your average Joe (STUN 20, BODY 10) then hitting him in the arm by your ratios you could do 6 BODY (and therefore 24 STUN) and have him laid out cold (-4 STUN). You would have to do 9 BODY to the head to get a similar result (-5 STUN)."
The ratios imply that result but they are wrong. In play 6 BODY to the Arm will do 12 STUN and 9 BODY to the head will do 45 STUN.
The ratios don't take the absolute figures into consideration.
If I were arguing that the ratios were the sole or even primary factor that should be considered in evaluating the chart' date=' then this would be a good point. But that is not what I am arguing. I'm saying that there are no obvious problems with the absolutes, but the ratios implied by the charts ought to make sense too.[/quote']Why?
Doc
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Re: 2nd Thoughts About the Hit Location Chart
taking your average Joe (STUN 20, BODY 10) then hitting him in the arm by your ratios you could do 6 BODY (and therefore 24 STUN) and have him laid out cold (-4 STUN). You would have to do 9 BODY to the head to get a similar result (-5 STUN).
Yep.
No. But the ratios you quote are wrong. Those things don't happen in play and thus the ratios are flawed...
Maybe. It depends in part on what a Hero System knockout represents. (It's certainly true that there is less risk of killing them' date=' but whether you are more likely to KO without killing them is less obvious.) But lets assume you're right. Would you be equally willing to say, "Which means of course you are more likely to take someone out of the fight - without killing them - by shooting them in the [i']stomach[/i] rather than the thigh" or " . . . by shooting them in the chest rather than the foot"? Because those are implications of the chart as well.Again the problem with the ratios is that they ignore the absolutes.
In the stomach versus thigh contest the opponent is more likely to KO and kill the character by aiming at the stomach, 5 BODY to the stomach KOs Joe Average and 7 BODY leaves him dying. It needs 10 BODY to kill or KO hitting the thigh.
Chest hits need 10 BODY to kill and 7 BODY to KO, foot hits require 20 BODY to kill or to KO.
Obviously your ratios don't even do what I thought very well, but they don't. to me, indicatea problem with the chart. The results are very much as I might expect, it takes less damage to the Stomach than to the Chest or thigh, than to the foot to KO or kill an opponent...
Doc
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Re: 2nd Thoughts About the Hit Location Chart
The higher the value' date=' the less net BOD needs to be done to KO the target. So KA hits to the arm, stomach, or leg, can stun or KO a target with the least permanent (i.e., BOD) damage; hits to the hand, vitals, thigh, or foot have to do the twice as much net BOD to do the same amount of STUN.[/quote']But the way you have defined your ratios probably gives you a false impression.
By halving the BODY for a hit to the arm while doubling the same number for STUN gives you a 6:1 STUN:BODY ratio for a hit to the arm and a 5:2 ratio for a hit to the head. The fact you chose 3 BODY as the damage also increases the ratio for the arm as you got the benefit of rounding down.
Now. From that it would appear as if you had to do less damage to the arm to KO someone than you had to do to the head.
taking your average Joe (STUN 20, BODY 10) then hitting him in the arm by your ratios you could do 6 BODY (and therefore 24 STUN) and have him laid out cold (-4 STUN). You would have to do 9 BODY to the head to get a similar result (-5 STUN).
However, if you look at BODY done by the attacker, then the attacker would have to dish out 12 BODY damage to get the KO by hitting the arm while the same attacker would only have to dish out 5 BODY to get the KO by hitting the head.
That makes more sense.
I think that your STUN:BODY ratios tend to indicate how much likelier you are to get a KO rather than a kill by hitting a particular location than anything else.
Doc
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Re: Starting from the beginning...help me!
Doc Democracy: No, none of the regulation published worlds, but I do have a world of my own from a long time ago, and the "urban adventure" idea would work well with one or two of the biggest cities. With the PCs as inexperienced outsiders in the big city, trying to negotiate both the metropolis and the High Justice, it could create a very roleplaying intensive adventure. The problem would be trying to keep the players from getting frustrated.Yes! I'd forgotten all about the low-level undead. With those and all the other more natural hazards of the big city, I could keep the PCs very busy and hopefully interested.
That's an excellent point about covering bases and ensuring the availability of healing. I'd hope I wouldn't overlook it, but it's been years since I ran a D&D game. I might arrange for an NPC priest of Apollo, just in case....
I think frustration only occurs if you set their expectation too high. Don't have them involved in things they can't change or affect. If there is a big storyline then have them involved with the parts they can change and influence. For the want of a nail type stuff - they can find that nail.
When I ran a group of beginning players - all teenagers though - I had them affiliate with the NPC groups that I wanted to promote, thereby tying them to particular mores and in return provided them with some magic. Rather than a priest of Apollo then they would have amulets that provide so many cure light wounds/cure disease etc per day/per week or whatever.
This allowed me not to worry about NPCs, allowed me to whip them in when they wanted to do teenage boy stuff like burn down the house of the guy who dissed them and to tie them into ongoing plots with said organisations.
With adult you could have much more political fun with stuff like this and the various groups would likely have distinct prestige classes they may want to try and qualify for - thus tying the characters more closely into the background.
You have the opportunity to lay the groundwork when they start from scratch.
Beware however - 3rd edition characters gain levels and power very quickly...if the campaign continues expect them to be growing fast - it is good to have options in place for when they have to make such decisions.
Doc
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Re: Golden Age speedster advice needed
You could, in homage to an old Beano character, call her Jilly Whizz.
very British.
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Re: Starting from the beginning...help me!
Are you going to use any of the 'standard' worlds? It can make a difference if you can start with some kind of background already in place.
For example, if you have any Greyhawk stuff then the party can be a representation sent from a village to the Free City to adjudicate in a dispute with a merchant. The players would then have to negotiate the biggest metropolis that they would ever have encountered - gain entry to the Merchant's Guild and then persuade someone to take on their case against a merchant.
Base plot right there that should bring them into contact with several 'players' in Greyhawk and complications can ensue as required - thieves, beggars, night-time horrors (a couple of skeletons or a zombie could be all that first level characters need).
You have a small party for D&D so make sure that if all the bases aren't covered in terms of abilities that you fill in with magic or NPCs. I have found in my games that few people want to take clerics and D&D works best if there is healing about - so my games tend to have a plethora of cheap healing magic (which, I suppose, reinforces the original deficit but it works for me - the supply can dry up whenever I need it to - like stuff players haven't paid the points for in Hero!)
Doc
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Re: Golden Age speedster advice needed
After Mick had knocked out the Nazi' date=' he turned to the astonished Miss Avery and exclaimed: "Cor, sweetheart! You're ....." [/quote']I'd go with Swift, the bird motif is more feminine, the word fits your sentence and swift somehow feels a bit WWII English...
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Re: Endurance Reserve question
You can have 10d6 of Absorbtion, and add 120 END to the battery after being hit by several attacks, but it will still gradually fade down to 0 if unused. As well, if you use up all 120 END, you can't absorb any more until some of it would have faded had it not been used up.In other words, Absorbtion isn't identical to REC for the battery. I suppose you could also buy REC, limited to the points absorbed in the last turn, only to make those absorbed points not fade.
Hmm. I'm with Ghost Angel in not thinking that was the way it worked. May have to go home and read 5th edition rules _again_
My take on it would have been that the 50 END battery could be powered up to 50 and would retain that END until it was used. If extra END was added then that extra would fade until the capacity of the battery was reached and it would hold at 50.
My understanding is third edition!
My understanding is based on the way it worked on characteristics in third edition. Did all of that change?
Doc
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Re: A couple of how to questions
The brick trick that you describe is either impossible (you can't move after making an attack before the KB'd character lands) or just the sfx of a NO KB autofire (2) attack: in essence what you are doing is hitting them twice' date=' once away and once back again, so they (and you) end up where you started: it just seems like hitting them twice framed in an intresting way.[/quote']Ooh! Nice thinking. I'm thinking of an autofire with (full phase) and RSR (to reflect the need to actually hit the second and subsequent times).
Will rep you when I'm able....
Doc
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Re: Taming Absolutes
Sean
did you say lawyer or actuary - that looks more complicated than my last pensions seminar!
Doc
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Re: Taming Absolutes
Erm..THIS is what damage reduction does:Extra characteristics only effective against physical attacks (-1)
+60 STUN
+20 BODY
+20 CON (only to prevent stunning -1/2)
66 points
You forgot the REC factor Sean. Because you're STUN is being multiplied your REC is more efficient in replenishing all of that extra STUN you just bought....
Doc
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Re: Bodyjacking
I can see the initial jump to mental power - we are after all talking about minds but there would be justification for the transformation route as well. I wonder whether the defence might vary dependent upon the chosen SFX?
I'll be interested in seeing what you come up with. My own version of body-jacking was based on transformation and duplication (short summary was that the transform converted the victim into my duplicate and the duplication power allowed the attacker to merge the victim and attacker into one body).
That was very complicated to explain to people!
Doc
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Re: Bodyjacking
This sounds too much like Mind Control to me. I've seen the "official" writeup of bodyjacking and it's hideous' date=' granted, but I believe it's a more or less fair way to go. The ability to steal another's body, completey and utterly, [i']is[/i] rather powerful.DR, this is completely off topic - but suerly Peacefu Chaos would have lost the horizontal cross bars as well (you'd have the CND logo within the chaos wheel - very appropriate!)
Doc
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Re: Bodyjacking
Variables
Attackers body is left behind
Attacker gains access to non physical attributes/powers
Attacker gets access to memories/skills
Target is aware/unaware of possesion
Does that seems about right?
Another variable would be where the minds switch bodies. Physical attributes are swapped but knowledge and skills are retained (thinking Wild Cards here).
As far as I remember that series meant that mental powers remained with the body taken over but personal knowledge was carried over. Skills would be carried over as well but using the new DEX/STR etc of the new body.
Doc
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Re: Entanglements
Personally I'm in the complete rethink on entangle - and would call it immobility. Haven't got any further - like with useful mechanics or anything but I think that Entangle has become so widely used to model effects in Hero beyond what it was ever supposed to.
I think Entangle is obviously derived from Spidey's webshooters but is now used for things like gravity traps which it is not really well designed to model.
Looking forward to the big brains tackle this...
Doc
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Re: Entanglements
Bloody hell Sean, do you just sit there flicking through the rulebook deciding what to complain about next?
Doc
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Re: Power Build Advice Needed
Okay... I have a villain in the works who can replicate himself like Agent Smith from the second Matrix film: he touches you, he infects you, and soon enough you're a copy of him.How do I model that? Two linked Transforms (one for body, one for mind)? Duplication with really kinky special effects?
Any advice would be helpful.
Now I never watched the second matrix film. What happens to the the transofrmed person? Are they able to return?
Dependent on that answer I'd go with either a transform or a killing attack and duplication or summon.
The transform makes the person 'disappear' and the duplication is limited in that the duplicate/summoned replacement can only appear if someone has disappeared. If the person 'heals' the transformation then the duplicate/summoned replacement reintegrates with the original/disappears and the victim 're-appears'.
The killing attack 'removes' the original to be replaced by the duplicate. The duplicate is then available until it is killed etc.
I think the biggest problem would be that, as far as I can see, the power is an infinite one limited only by the availability of people to transform while duplication etc aren't infinite powers....
Doc
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Re: Interesting telekinesis situation.
Ah. I forgot to mention that Zephyr did all this in one phase (however she already was holding StormFront; not TK' date=' just "Fireman's Carry" I guess).[/quote']I guess that your main quibble would be whether the GM used non-combat multiples on Zephyr's flight while grabbing an unconscious teammate?
I wouldn't allow it. The phase used to grab Holocaust would be limited to half a combat move with the following phase then full movement (all non-combat).
As Vanguard said - it would depend on relative speeds and phases to know whether everything done was by the book - it could even depend on the write-up of the telekinesis.
Doc
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Re: New Advantage: Painful
...most of the groups I've played with tend to relate Ego to force of will and pain tolerance' date=' so basing the attack of ECV makes alot of sense to me and it doesn't involve a hint of fudging or house ruling. As far as targeting the attack physically just add the lim requires skill roll then base the roll off the normal attack roll, that gets the atack in the area, the ECV determines if the target is stopped by the pain.[/quote']As I said, the basis of using entangle to incapacitate someone is entirely consistent with the base rules.
My biggest beef is that my hugely dextrous ninja with a blowpipe delivered dart _has_ to have a huge ECV to have a chance of affect the wimpy mentalist regardless of whether that mentalist can break out of the entangle.
Indeed, an automaton guard would have essentially no chance of attacking in this way as it would not have any EGO and therefore no ECV.
_That_ is what makes the build cludgy to me.
Doc
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Re: Superheroes: The Five Essentials
Hmm. You want superhero stuff. I think you have to get the idealism of superheors - the whole Be a Hero type thing. You also have to get the group idea and something of the sense of fun and irreverence that comes through in many comics.
1) Judas Contract - Marv Wolfman Teen Titans
2) Justice League - (first 10 or so of the Giffen/De Matteis run)
3) JLA - almost any of the first story arcs done by Grant Morrison to provide a different context to that same team.
4) Dark Pheonix - agreed as an excellent epic story
5) Fantastic Four - the recent Mark Waid hardcover (volume 1). You have to have something by the FF and these were classic FF stories against their arch-enemy Victor von Doom.
Doc
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Re: New Advantage: Painful
Here' date=' Doc, you need these: [i'][/i]
Better?
I love it when Sean makes me smile even as he publicly humiliates me!
2nd Thoughts About the Hit Location Chart
in HERO System Discussion
Posted
Re: 2nd Thoughts About the Hit Location Chart