Dr. MID-Nite

I have to agree with Gary. Have you looked at Menton's BOECV Entangle? It is seriously overpowered. Most Mentalists can't break free of it. My PCs actually fought Menton, who was unable to use his telepathic powers for the first turn(inhibitor field). He held his own with his Telekinetic powers for the first turn. As soon as his mental powers came back....game over. If the BOECV Entangle doesn't screw you, the all senses Flash will. Two of my characters had Mental Defense. Didn't matter. It's a 6 dice Entangle. Meaning....on average....EGO 30 is stuck indefinitely.

Rob

Menton: Logically, he'd never face the heroes face to face. He has Mind Scan, folks, and lots of it. He'll be laying waste to the team from a mile away. And, if I remember correctly, he can use that BOECV Entangle through the Scan.

Gravitar: She's beatable if you can get past her ungodly defenses. Without a mentalist though, you're in for a rough night. Martial Artists might as well stay at home too.

Doc Destroyer: Attack full force. Don't give him a break. Knock him down and otherwise make him waste time. Anything to keep him from focusing one of those power blasts on you. I will say a standard team of 350pt characters has no chance against Destroyer. He does WAY too much damage. He's basically taking out a PC per phase. My old mentalist, The Living EGO, would try to confuse him with illusions, wasting his phases while the other members of the Ultimate Protectors coordinate at range to set him up for a bearhug from our 100 STR Brick....Orca!(The group consisted of Living EGO, Orca, Lightmaster, Guardian, and Ninja....all high powered heroes.)

Rob

I'd probably go with Sharper myself. Campaigns usually need good villains. Your PCs cover the hero end. UNTIL exists in my campaign, but the general information on them in Champions Universe is sufficient for me to run them. If I wanted UNTIL to play a major part in upcoming game sessions....then I'd buy it. Books like UNTIL are mostly reading material. STAST is a module(giving it immediate utility)....plus it has villains(though a tad too few for my tastes.

Rob

Originally posted by Lord Liaden

Strongly agree with this. Vulshoth would probably be the logical choice, since it's already detailed in Creatures of the Night, and as it's Dean Shomshak's creation there should be no problem using it. But that version of Vulshoth, horrific as it is, is just too weak compared to the newest CU Omega-class villains. Despite my mixed feelings about grossly powerful characters, if one can ever argue for something that could crush Dr. Destroyer like a bug, a King of Edom should be in the front rank.

 

(I love saying "the Kings of Edom." It's one of those names/titles that just reverberates with power and menace.)

I agree as well. A King of Edom(based on some Elder Gods I attempted to adapt from Call of Cthulhu) are going to be around 1500-2000 points IMO.

Rob

Many people have brought up good points. Some of my own:

1) There needs to be a clear distinction between DEMON and the Circle of the Scarlet Moon. Why are they separate? Do they oppose each other or merely ignore each other? personally, I think it's redundant for both to exist in the CU, but if they are to exist.....you need to explain why they just haven't merged together whether by mutual philosphy or force.

2) A writeup of at least one of the Kings of Edom seems almost mandatory....if only to see what we are up against. We need to learn why we fear the night.

3) In general, let's see some more character writeups. 5th Edition has been very stingy when it comes to including writeups in their supplements.

4) Keep the inner circle of Demon concept. Change the specific characters as you will, but the idea of a cabal running the show was probably the best thing about 4th edition Demon.

5) I agree with the many other posts. How do they recruit? What do they have to offer? Naked power isn't a good answer unless it's measurable. I think it's unlikely they would remain unless there was some short term rewards to being a member. I guess you could go the religious cult route. I've never understood what makes people join and then stay with them.

6) Lots and lots of plot ideas. The more....the merrier.

Rob

I picked it up as well. Reasonably well done, though not as good as Shades to Black. I thought the adventure was a bit easy for standard heroes. The bad guys aren't that tough and several are encountered on their own. Gorgon may be a tough fighter, but no way she is going to stand up to 5 or 6 standard heroes for very long. And the toughest member of COIL is a potential turncoat(and he's not the only one). The ideas are good, but it'd require some modification for most "standard" level games in my opinion.

The art was kind of spotty as well. Some was really good, but some wasn't so good. For example, it's mentioned in the description how impressive King Cobra looks with his hood extended and then the picture DOESN'T show it.

The villains themselves seemed reasonable well built. Firedrake is questionable with the Multiform. Any player worth the name is going to blast the 3 SPD, super weak human form before he can do a thing. At the very least, they'll use a level of force appropriate to agents....which will still be sufficient to knock him out in one attack. King Cobra's main power was very nice and allows for a lot of future scenario ideas. Krait was probably the most original design in the book. I probably would have prefered more supervillain writeups(making COIL sort of a CU style Serpent Society.) Worth the purchase price though, so what more needs be said?

Rob

As Teleios has Megalomania as a disadvantage....and it's stated he is interested in world conquest in his description(if only to more freely experiment), I'd definitely say he's a master villain. Besides, he opereates like one. I might also add Interface from Champions Battlegrounds to that list as well. And King Cobra will most likely fit that description too.

Rob

Well, assuming Black Paladin doesn't have the perfect vessel yet, it would be a liability to kill the heroes at this time. The whole city would be out looking for him and it might be harder to acquire the perfect vessel in that case. He's generally keeping a low profile, and mostly likely would continue to do so until the vessel is in his clutches. Killing three heroes in cold blood is NOT low profile. Sure, he may be inclined to, but he's also not stupid. He's smart enough to see the big picture. Now, your question is probably what to do with the heroes in this case. Well, for starters, BP would probably remove all their foci. One idea(though somewhat sadistic) is to have him nick his prisoners with the Eater of Shadows sword and give them all 3d6 Unluck. This would help his cause in a rematch. If none of these ideas appeal to you, simply say the police get a tip and arrive on the scene. BP has just enough time to get away, but not much else. Hope this helps.

Rob

Someone mentioned a "Neurokinetic". What was meant by that? A villain who can control the body processes of another person with his mind....or a villain with straight up mental powers? I'm assuming the former, but who knows. Also, what's the rough points on KC? Is he another 1000+ point character?(Not that there's anything inherently wrong with that.) I have a big group(5 players) and I just want to make sure this will be a challenge for them.

Rob

The Ultimates, eh? I'll have to change that. The Ultimates got a heavy workout in my campaign and are cureently in Stronghold. My players would lynch me if I used them again. So....guess I'll have to find some mercenary substitutes. Off the record, how many baddies does KC have working for him?

Rob

Originally posted by Metaphysician

As a rough benchmark, I usually figure that class 60 in Marvel = 60 Strength in Champions. Anything lower, and you calc based on the lifting weight in tons. Anything higher, and you convert the class as a strength score.

 

As for Thor, I'd peg him at 100, but with bonuses available via Warrior Rage and the Belt of Strength.

I generally do the same thing. Makes conversion more consistent and you don't agonize over it. STR isn't usually the hard stat. I have way more trouble with DEX.

Rob

Both the original Rodan and Mothra were color productions. That I can assure you as a fact. Black and white versions of most Toho films were avaliable as Super 8mm short reels, which you to sell in places like K-mart. They were super condensed and/or portions of the films in question. I still have my 8mm version of Destroy All Monsters(which ironicially enough...sums up the film nicely in 15 minutes...including the majority of the climatic battle).

The interesting thing about converting these beasts to Hero is that Godzilla is probably the easy one. King Ghidorah, Destroyer, or even Mothra are a bit more involved.

Rob

Actually, it IS pronounced Ra-don in the Japanese version. Shortened version of Pteradon if I remember correctly. American distributors changed the name precisely to avoid the confusion between the monster and the element on the periodic table. LOL Rodan definitely can produce hurricane intensity winds. It's his primary method of destruction in the 1956 film(which incidently is the first japanese giant monster film in color). Plus, the speed at which he flies produces the "sonic boom" effect if he flies low enough. This power is displyed in most of his appearences actually. To really throw a wrench into things, watch the 1956 movie carefully. Rodan displays a Godzilla-like breath weapon during the big attack on Fukuoka(Sasebo in the US version). It looks like a blast of air...or perhaps mist. This was dropped in his future showings in the older series. When he was revised for the 90's films, the breath weapon returned....as a Uranium blast....which closely resembled Godzilla's atomic ray.

Rob

I did state that the movies vary in the big G's portrayal. I was simply looking for a consensus on the abilities that are core to Godzilla. In other words, abilities that would be shared by them all...regardless of movie. Generally, I think the wonderful folks on this board covered most bases....even reminding me of his radiation fetish.(Absorption)

Rob

I had heard somwhere that there was plans to do some of the Monster island write-ups, but wasn't aware this had been confirmed. I too would be interested in seeing how they look...at least game mechanic wise.

Rob

Yeah...Shirak IS pretty tough, but for some reason...I can't latch onto the monsters in the CU. Probably because the Kaiju "movieverse" seems so much more intriguing that'd I'd rather use Toho or other related monsters as my canon.

Rob

Ah yes...you're quite right. I have blasphemied myself in front of the altar of Godzilla by forgetting to include an absorption power. Forgive me....oh mighty King of the Monsters!

Seriously, thanks for the replies. I'm a big Godzilla fan and was curious for opinions. I have seen the Hero Beastiary version...but really...does anyone think that's anywhere near Godzilla's power level? Old school Minira....MAYBE, but otherwise...even Godzilla Jr. would be tougher than that.

Rob

Mine was a mentalist I called the The Living Ego. Yes....he had overconfidence. He was actually killed in a battle by Anklosaur. I played another character called Electron for a while, but eventually...a plotline came along that had the Living Ego's consciousness enter Electron's body. Eventually, The Living Ego reshaped the new body to resemble his old one...and he was back in the game. I ended up playing him for another six years.(Yes, he is QUITE powerful at this point.)

Rob

Has anyone seriously tried to writeup Godzilla under the 5th Edition Hero rules? And I'm not talking about that ridiculously underpowered attempt in the Hero Bestiary(which is Beast From 20,000 Fathoms level at best). Now, there have been well over 20 movies and different writers and directors have had different interpretations, but at his core Godzilla...in my opinion....has the following qualities...

1) Enormous size: Godzilla is always portrayed between 50-100 meters tall. This implies enormous STR, CON, and BODY scores, along with any other size appropriate powers.(example:knockback resistance)

2)Near indestructibility: Define this however you want, but Godzilla easily resists tank shells, cruise missle explosions, and other highly damaging attacks. High defenses and Damage Reduction.....most likely a level of Hardened as well. The exact level is open to debate, but considering Godzilla can be hit with his own atomic ray and take relatively little damage, I'm thinking upper level here.

3) Atomic ray: Godzilla's trademark energy attack. The level of damage this can do is amazing regardless of which movies you are using as canon. At its worst, it has completely atomized opposing monsters. I'd say even at the low end, this would be an area effect RKA of at least 10d6 power, which would make it the equivalent of the Viper railgun, but on a wider scale. I'd say this would be the weakest I could see this power going.

Radioactive qualities: Godzilla has additional organs in his body that act as an organic nuclear reactor. This is where he gets the power for his atomic ray. Naturally, radiation doesn't bother him in the least. He also constantly emits radiation from his body. Again, movies vary in portraying this, but I'd say a wide scale Change environment with long lasting effects is appropriate here.

Amphibious qualities: Godzilla can survive underwater indefinitely.

Other notes: Godzilla is also able to survive intense heat, cold, and pressure with ease.

What Godzilla can't do: Godzilla cannot exist without breathing. Gas clearly affects him....as does poisons and toxins.....though the amount required to affect such a large animal makes it difficult to use this against him. It has never been categorically proven that he can exist in the vacuum of space. In the one example of Godzilla in space(Monster Zero), it is assumed the aliens put invisible air bubbles around the monsters to allow them to survive temporarily on their world. Godzilla is NOT fast, even by standards of other giant monstsers. How long Godzilla can live is unknown....though it can apparently exist in suspended animation indefinitely. I'd assume Godzilla probably has the Immortality Life Support power, but this isn't certain. Godzilla is NOT immune to mental powers, though EGO Attack seems questionable against such a huge beast. A convention of the genre is that such monsters can never be controlled for very long(unless they're the "bad" guys.)

I think I covered most of it. Anyone have anything to add? My opinion would be STR over 100...area of effect....area for foot....line for tail. CON 50+. Defenses in the 30-50 range...fully resistance...with Damage Reduction. PRE score through the roof. Anything I'm missing?

Rob

I wouldn't give Cap across the board 30's either. STR 30 means you can lift a ton and Cap does NOT do that consistently. Likewise, I don't think Cap has a 30 INT or EGO either. He does have a good EGO, but 30 would make him the equal of Menton(and probably Professor X) and I'm not buying that. Cap probably DOES have PRE 30.....as he IS a living legend. I think his other stats are probably minimums of 20, except possibly BODY. Most would range between 20-30. SPD is between 5-7....take your pick. I think the All American(From Champions Universe) is a good starting point for building Cap. Cap's stats are better, but the concept is very close.

Rob

For reference, this attack will be a 2d6 RKA, NND(standard effect), if that helps your analysis.

Rob

Hey all,

What would you guys give for this disadvantage(which I'm applying to a laser sword concept)? It slices real good, but it generall cauterizes the wound almost immediately, so looking at no STUN damage here. Thoughts?

Rob

To those who mentioned making sure the villain can Dive For Cover, I wanted to add that he already has Flying Dodge, which pretty much let's him avoid are attacks anyway....unless I'm reading the Rules FAQ wrong.

Rob

Okay...this has always perplexed me. Of what practical worth is Stealth...and how is it different form Shadowing? I know Stealth can be used in combat, but most combatants aren't hidden...so I can't see this being useful. Help me out here. Let's say....hypothetically...someone had a great Stealth roll. What kind of things would...or could...they do? I have a player with Stealth...and right now...I have no practical advice to give him on it's use. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Rob

Thanks for all the help. This speedster is just about ready to get his revenge.

Rob