Noticed Something: Continuing Charges and Duration

[SCUBA Hero]

Inspired by Utensil's Continuing Fuel Charge thread in the Hero Designer Forum:

 

Effect: In an amine game, I want to buy a sword that can grow larger and do more damage for a short period of time twice per day.

 

Sword:  Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (3d6+1 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (45 Active Points); OAF (-1) 22

 

-plus-

 

...wait, I can't add Continuing Charges to an Instant Power.  Use Time Limit?  No... "Time Limit is generally intended for nonattack abilities — “utility” or defensive powers that don’t require Attack Rolls to affect a target or which won’t unbalance a campaign. In most cases, attacks should use the standard HERO System Duration rules (see 6E1 127)."  Okay, add Constant (+1/2) and 2 5-minute Continuing Charges (-1/2)

 

Temporary Big Sword:  plus Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (2-1/2 d6 w/STR), Constant (+1/2) (45 Active Points); 2 Continuing Charges lasting 5 Minutes each (-1/2) 30

 

But waitaminute... the plus part of the Power is Continuous, which means once I hit, that 2d6 automatically keeps hitting as long as I retain LOS and pay the END cost (which, as a Power with Charges, is zero).  That doesn't match the effect.

 

How do I get out of this - use Time Limit instead, apply a custom Limitation to Continuous, something else??? 🤔

 

[Edit] Interestingly, in Champions Complete the text noting that Continuing Charges must be applied to a Constant or Persistent Power is missing.  So I understand the confusion with HD requiring Constant (or Persistent) before showing the Continuing Charges options (and would share it if I was using CC as a primary rules reference). [/Edit]

[SCUBA Hero]

No takers?

 

I'm thinking add Constant (+1/2) and Must Roll To Hit For Every Attack (-1/4).  The only reason to add Constant is that RAW requires it, but it shouldn't be totally negated in cost... ergo, (-1/4).

 

C'mon, *someone* must have put Continuing Charges on an attack.  How did you build it?

[L. Marcus]

Time Limit is what I'd go with, say for one minute on two Charges. Fairly straightforward, isn't it? 6E1, p. 346 has a HKA as an example; is the recommendation to not allow it from CC, or ... ?

[SCUBA Hero]

1 hour ago, L. Marcus said:

Time Limit is what I'd go with, say for one minute on two Charges. Fairly straightforward, isn't it? 6E1, p. 346 has a HKA as an example; is the recommendation to not allow it from CC, or ... ?

 

The recommendation is from the same page (6E1, 346)! 

 

I need to do some comparisons on Time Limit and Constant... and I will... but not tonight.

 

Thanks for the response. 👍

[SCUBA Hero]

Did the comparisons:

 

Temporary Big Sword:  Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (2d6+1 w/STR), Constant (+1/2) (45 Active Points); 2 Continuing Charges lasting 5 Minutes each (-1/2), Conditional Power Power does not work in Uncommon Circumstances (Must Roll To Hit For Every Attack; -1/4)  26

 

Temporary Big Sword: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (2d6+1 w/STR), Time Limit (5 Minutes; +1) (60 Active Points); 2 Charges (-1 1/2)  24

 

So Constant has a lower AP cost but (slightly) higher Real point cost than Time Limit.  I conclude that either works.  Would probably default to Time Limit, except for the caveat "Time Limit is generally intended for nonattack abilities" 🤔

 

Anyone else want to weigh in?

[Utensil]

So i not notice focus ... Adding OAF Sword would impact cost in favor of Constant version.

 

Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (2 1/2d6 w/STR), Constant (+1/2) (45 Active Points); OAF (-1), 2 Continuing Charges lasting 5 Minutes each (-1/2), Conditional Power Power does not work in Uncommon Circumstances (Must Roll To Hit For Every Attack; -1/4) .. Real Cost: 16

 

Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (2 1/2d6 w/STR), Time Limit (5 Minutes; +1) (60 Active Points); 2 Charges (-1 1/2), OAF (-1) ... Real Cost: 17

 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by Utensil
Stregth of 18

[SCUBA Hero]

Good point!  I missed OAF on both builds.

[SCUBA Hero]

Adding OAF brings the Real Cost to within 1 point - 16 for Continuing Charges and 17 for Time Limit.  Interesting.  Although the AP costs are different - 45 for CC and 60 for TL.