Vampires and STUN?

[GrimJesta]

I have a Vampire Package for my game, and I couldnt find a good way to simulate the fact that an undead creature doesnt get STUNned, so I gave them the Takes no Stun ability that Automatons get. Is this wrong? Is there a better way to do it, or is it sometimes OK to give a PC Package an ability normally not open to them?

 

-=Grim=-

[Zeropoint]

I once played in a game where a PC had this ability, and it turned out to be far more powerful than it would seem at first glance. Remember that in most super-heroic fights, characters are taken down by Stun damage, not Body.

 

I'd suggest some heavy stun-only damage reduction instead.

 

Zeropoint

[Monolith]

I agree with Zeropoint here. Since 95% of the characters in a game take STUN and not BODY giving someone Takes No STUN is a very unbalancing ability. Your best be is to just buy some extra Armor with a STUN damage only Limitation.

[GrimJesta]

Hrmmm. Wel, its a Fantasy Hero game, so Killing Attacks are everywhere. Plus the sucker takes X2 Body damage from Holy and Silver Attacks. And its a theological worl, so the holy Attacks are uncommon at worst.

 

But yea, I can see this might be too powerful. Maybe Damage Resistance vs normal attacks is better?

 

-=Grim=-

[Bleys]

You might want to consider purchasing "Cannot Be Stunned" instead of "Takes no stun.

This gives the vampire a undead flavor without making them automatically immune to almost all NND's.

[Farkling]

It is possible in fiction to STUN a vampire.

Damage Reduction is the better model, and doesn't add any question of the character's self motivation and independent actions. Also won't turn him into an unstoppable combat machine.

 

You should limit the damage reduction also, so it doesn't affect Holy and Silver attacks.

 

50% Damage Reduction, Normal, Physical (STUN only -1/2, not versus Holy or Silver weapons, -1/2 to -1, depending on frequency, knowledge, ease of vamp identifiction)

8-10 pts, depending on the Holy/Silver limitation value.

25% ranges from 4-5, and 75% from 16-20 of course.

Damage Reduction can be bought resistant if you want it to apply against damage from killing weapons such as swords also.

25% 6-12, 50% 12-20, 75% 24-30.

 

Consider these numbers though...Vampire PD 10, CON 15

9d6 Body Slam - 36 STUN, 9 BODY (Note: 9d6 ~ 3d6 KA)

vs. PD 10 = 26 STUN, 0 BODY. Vampire Stunned.

vs. PD 10, 25% DR = 19 STUN, 0 BODY. Vampire Stunned.

vs. PD 10, 50% DR = 13 STUN, 0 BODY. Vampire not Stunned, but perhaps cautious.

vs. PD 10, 75% DR = 6 STUN, 0 BODY. Vampire Annoyed.

 

With resistant Damage Reduction...and a mere 3 rPD

Norm - 7 BODY, 25% - 5 BODY, 50% - 3 BODY, 75% - 2 BODY

 

Additionally, you have more seasoning options. Takes no STUN applies against energy also, does it not? So a fireball will just leave yon vampire smoking, if large enough, and not even inconvenienced. If Vamps ARE inherently resistant to the "shock" (STUN) of spells, the reduction can be purchased for energy also. And at a different level of redution. Perhaps not working against fire, as we all know those dried corpses burn failry easily...and are terrified of the fact.

 

Keep the high end effect of damage reduction in mind also, especially as a GM. Let me bust out my calculator here, and look at the same Vampire, CON 15, PD 10. He falls into DoomStar canyon, and impacts the ground at a 25" velocity, missing the sharp rocks (Doomstar Canyon, we can presume, is at least 5+10+15+20+25 = 75" deep, so 150 meters, or 450 feet). Let's give him 35 STUN. and a whopping 20 BODY, since vampires have a great will to live (or they wouldn't be vampires )

 

25d6 Character Killing Death Impact - 100 STUN, 25 BODY

vs. PD 10 = 90 STUN, 15 BODY. Vampire Stunned, very unconscious (-55), and may die of starvation or staking.

vs. PD 10, 25% DR = 67 STUN, 15 BODY. Vampire Stunned. Unconscious (-32), and may yet die of staking.

vs. PD 10, 50% DR = 45 STUN, 15 BODY. Vampire Stunned, unconscious (-13), and will likely be staggering to his feet in a minute.

vs. PD 10, 75% DR = 27 STUN, 15 BODY. Vampire is Stunned, but conscious (+12). In seconds, he leaps to his feet and charges into hiding, so he can consider where to get his next meal.

 

If the damage reduction applies against BODY also, well, a fall at terminal velocity (30d6) cannot even kill him with the stats used above. He will take 15,10, or 5 Body depending on the damage reduction level, and blunt weapons will be of little danger to him in combat. He will stand an even chance of walking away from the 30d6 fall within minutes if he has 50% Reduction.

[Vondy]

I would be very wary of giving a vamp this ability as it has a tendency to make characters extremely powerful. It also doesn't fit the actual way vampires play out in fiction. They can be stunned, or put down briefly. I have traditionally used Damage Reduction combined with a very low scale Damage Resistance to signify their undead toughness.

[GrimJesta]

Yea, I think I too hastily threw TNS on the template without thinking of the ramifications. Especially after seeing farlings impressive examples, I think DR with rPD is fine. Or perfect, actually.

 

I was going more with the World of Darkness Vampires, who arent really "stunable" in the conventional sense. Only Torpor'd and such when they are staked or beaten to near-death. Which the Doomcanyon example shows that the TNS isnt what Im looking for; the other solution is, as the lack of resitance to silver and holy attacks is fine for what would take them down.

 

 

Now I just have to figure out how to stake something and incapacitate it in one attack...

 

Heh.

 

-=Grim=-

[NuSoardGraphite]

I agree with several posters on this subject.

 

Not on the fact that "Takes no Stun" is an unbalanced power (it would be in Supers game, where body damage is rare, but this is a Heroic level or at least a Fantasy game where killing damage is very common and everyone knows a vampires vulnerabilities, so they're in just as much danger as the next guy!) but on the fact that vampires do take Stun and can be stunned.

 

My suggestion would be to go with the Damage Reduction, Stun only (I suggest 50%) that way its very tough to put a Vamp down with just stun, but not impossible.

 

That should go a long way to simulating the typical movie/tv vampire toughness.

[AnotherSkip]

WOD Vamps

 

Though most people do play WOD vampires as "Takes no stun".

 

This is terribly incorrect.

 

You can drop Vamps, Werewolves and other WOD supernatural beasties through lots of "normal" attacks.

This is clearly stated in the books in the damage section.

 

Basically all "normals" take killing from everything, Supernatural Critters take killing only from either Vulnerabilities/Susceptibilities or Supernatural Weapons.

 

*grumbles about getting some good outta his time wasted in other systems*