Monster/Race: Ogre

[Hierax]

Here's my second draft conversion of a standard Ogre warrior write-up:

 

  http://www.hierax.com/hero/fantasy/grey/monster/ogre.pdf

 

I would appreciate any comments, feedback, criticism, suggestions that you may have on how I can improve the write-up...

 

THANKS!

 

Ogre (Standard 200 Point Warrior)

 

Val	Char	Cost
20/30	STR	10
8	DEX	-6
20	CON	20
14/16	BODY	8
6	INT	-4
8	EGO	-4
6/16	PRE	-4
6	COM	-2
12/13	PD	8
8/9	ED	4
2	SPD	2
20	REC	24
40	END	0
44/46	STUN	10

5" RUN-21" SWIM-11"/3" LEAP-3Characteristics Cost: 60

 

Cost	Power	END
5	Thick Warty Skin: Damage Resistance (4 PD/4 ED), Inherent (+1/4) (5 Active Points)
50	Gigantic (9' Tall; 1.5x human size): (Total: 63 Active Cost, 50 Real Cost) Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 25% (Real Cost: 15) plus Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 25% (Real Cost: 15) plus Growth (+10 STR, +2 BODY, +2 STUN, -2" KB, 1,080 kg, +0 DCV, +0 PER Rolls to perceive character, 3 m tall, 1 m wide), Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (22 Active Points); Always On (-1/2) (Real Cost: 15) plus Stretching 1", Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (11 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), No Velocity Damage (-1/4), no Noncombat Stretching (-1/4) (Real Cost: 5)
15	Fangs/Claws: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1/2d6 (1d6+1 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (15 Active Points)
5	Intimidating: +10 PRE (10 Active Points); Limited Power (Only for PRE Attacks) (-1)
6	Red Eyes: Infrared Perception (Sight Group), +1 to PER Roll
14	Big Nose: (Total: 14 Active Cost, 14 Real Cost) +2 PER with Smell/Taste Group (Real Cost: 4) plus Discriminatory with Smell/Taste Group (Real Cost: 10)

Powers Cost: 95

 

Cost	Skill
10	+2 with HTH Combat
6	+2 with Sweep, Haymaker, Move Through
2	WF: Common Melee Weapons, Thrown Rocks
2	PS 11-
0	Language (basic conversation) (1 Active Points)
2	Knowledge Skill: Lair 11-
2	Survival 11-

Skills Cost: 24

 

 

Cost	Talent
16	Combat Sense 11-
5	Resistance (5 points)

Talents Cost: 21

 

Cost	Equipment	END
1	Animal Hides: Armor (1 PD/1 ED) (3 Active Points); Independent (-2), OIF (-1/2)
7	Great Club (Human Sized) or Club (Ogre-Sized): Hand-To-Hand Attack +6d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (45 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (Focus - Great Club; -1), STR Minimum 15-17 (-3/4), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4)
11	Great Club (Ogre-Sized): Hand-To-Hand Attack +9d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (67 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (Focus - Great Club; -1), STR Minimum 18 and higher (-1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4)

Equipment costs shown above are for reference only, and are not included in Total Cost.

 

Total Character Cost: 200

 

Val	Disadvantages
15	Distinctive Features - Ogre: (Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
20	Enraged When Takes BODY Damage: (Common), go 11-, recover 11-
10	Hunted by Humanoid Haters: 8- (As Pow, Harshly Punish)
5	Physical Limitation - Voracious Gluttony Ogre Hunger - Needs to Eat 3.5 times as much as a normal man: (Infrequently, Slightly Impairing)
15	Psychological Limitation - Ogreish - Bloodlust, Bully, Casual Killer, Greedy, Hatred of Demi-Humans, Lazy, Overconfident, Sadistic, Stubborn: (Common, Strong)
5	Reputation (Killing Machines): , 8-
30	Monster Bonus

Disadvantage Points: 100

 

Base Points: 100

Experience Required: 0

Total Experience Available: 0

Experience Unspent: 0

[tkdguy]

Interesting. Have you playtested it yet?

[Hierax]

Originally posted by tkdguyInteresting. Have you playtested it yet?

 

No, sorry, I wanted to run it past some more experienced HERO GMs and Players get their take on it and revise it once more before putting it into actual action.

 

On paper, they are pretty hard for regular soldiers to take down due to the "Damage Resistance" (4rDEF) and "Damage Reduction" (25% resistant) and the fact that they dish-out such brutally huge damage with the club (12d6 N or 15d6 N).

 

But, this should be close to right because FWIW, I wanted them to feel like big, bad-asses somewhat like (to take a current example) when a "Troll" shows up in the "Lord of the Rings" -- i.e., they can be taken down by a single (sorely pressed) Hero or by a squad of Normal solidiers who bravely stand their ground and see several of their fellow get squashed!

 

How would this kind of Ogre fare in your game?

[Killer Shrike]

Quick ?: You prefer the Growth Always On approach over the 5th Edition Phys Lim approach? Just curious; otherwise looks good to me.

 

In the past I made my Ogres much tougher, on par w/ some lower point superhero bricks to fit a niche. It only took one to change the nature of a conflict. As a side note, when Fellowship of the Rings came out, one of my players of old commented that the Stone Troll was strikingly similar to my Ogres in its size and dynamics. I havent decided yet how I will model them under the new paradigm I've been working on.

[Hierax]

"Growth" is sort of a pre-built compound power for being 'bigger', which just somehow seems more efficient to use than writing down all the parts seperately

 

That and, well, it nicely got around the NCM problems ... but now that this can be set in HD templates I might move away from the Growth method?

 

I'm not quite sure yet if there is a convincing enough of a reason to change from the old way.

 

Too bad Hero doesn't have a single "Size" stat that can take care of all of the stuff that "Growth" and "Shrinking" used to; it would be nice to change one thing and have it recalculate all the relevant stats.

[Killer Shrike]

Originally posted by Hierax

"Growth" is sort of a pre-built compound power for being 'bigger', which just somehow seems more efficient to use than writing down all the parts seperately

 

That and, well, it nicely got around the NCM problems ... but now that this can be set in HD templates I might move away from the Growth method?

 

I'm not quite sure yet if there is a convincing enough of a reason to change from the old way.

 

Too bad Hero doesn't have a single "Size" stat that can take care of all of the stuff that "Growth" and "Shrinking" used to; it would be nice to change one thing and have it recalculate all the relevant stats.

I personally prefer the new method as it decouples several tenuously related things leading to a more orthagonal approach, which appeals to my programmatic sensibility. It also means you dont have to advantage a Power (0 END Persistant) just to apply a limitation (Always On). It treats the downside of being abnormally large or small in the same way other constantly in effect downsides are treated via a Disadvantage. It just seems to work better to me, but either way should work.

[Blue Jogger]

I would probably take down the defenses unless the campaign runs more than 8 damage classes on average. It's just scary when they take 9 BODY, 32 STUN (from a sword) and when naked: 1) ignore 4 BODY due to tough skin, 2) ignore 17 STUN due to natural defenses and on the remaining 15 STUN, ignore another 4 due to 25% damage reduction. Oh, and 1 less BODY, damage reduction.

 

Ogre takes 4 BODY, 11 STUN. If he wore armor: 3 BODY, 10 STUN.

 

Then again, if the standard is 12 damage classes. It's less scary in some ways, but the damage reduction works better, it starts taking off 4 BODY, 15 STUN on average. On 3 attacks, roughly 45 STUN is a big difference.

 

So it depends alot on the average damage classes and what the average 200 point warrior looks like. I'm figuring a 20 STR brute with standard 8/8 armor will be on par, if the damage classes are low. On high damage classes, the orge will just bypass 1/4 of the stun damage, which will give him a big edge against a "low magic" warrior. And pray for the poor standard human fighter has to face an ogre, completely naked (unless the human got some impressive skill levels).

[Hierax]

Adjusting the rDEF

 

Good point, I'm thinking of reducing the "Thick Skin" by half to ~ 2 rDEF which is still as tough as leather armor and quite impressive and would still let Half-Ogres have 1 rDEF skin.

 

FWIW, Originally, I wanted to go with 3 rDEF for Ogres (1 for thick, +2 to match Growth) and 2 rDEF for Half-Ogres (1 for thick +1 to match Growth) -- but the 7.5' tall Half-Ogres wouldn't get the Damage Reduction. I just rounded up to 4 instead (to make it evenly divisible by 2) but maybe that was a bit much.

 

One thing to consider in the campaign is that Magical weapons get one level of "Penetrating" for each "Plus" and often don't have STR minimums which would help even the odds for the Heroes over the normal soldiery -- e.g., a "+1 Two-Handed Sword" could be HKA 2d6 pumped up to 4d6 with a level of Penetrating and +1 OCV in addition to the 2-3 CSLs and 15-18 DEX, that is the kind of 200 pointish Warrior that might find themselves facing such a brute in battle (but hopefully with friends to help take the Ogre down, or some red-armored minions to take some hits .

 

Oh yeah, the Ogre should get -1 DCV for it's size (regardless of the official rules it makes more sense if 15-points of growth is -2 DCV, then 10 should definately be -1 DCV), I'll have to add a custom Disadvantage in for that.

 

So yeah, I'll have to reduce the rDEF by 1 or 2 -- THANKS!

[Eosin]

I like the write up but have a few questions -

 

1. The move of 5" seems pretty slow especially when factored against a speed 2.

 

2. REC seems pretty high...but reasonable.

 

3. For my own game I would put his speed at a 3 since only famrers and the like have a 2 in my game (I may be the odd one on speed though?).

 

Really pretty well done though. Consider it stolen

[Hierax]

Thanks, Eosin!

 

1. The Move of 5" was based on an AD&D Ogre moving 9" where a normal human moves 12". If one wanted to go purely with size the movement should be ~1.5x human so 9" in Hero, and if you wanted to combine the slower of the source material with the 1.5x longer legs then a move of 4.5" x 1.5 ~ 7" -- slightly faster than a human but not what you'd expect from a human of that size. In fact, now that you mention it and get me to think it through more deeply, I think that I might just do this 7" as a compromise that works in both POVs.

 

2. REC is based on the idea that they are pretty untireing brutes so that they can fully regain their END (and almost their STUN) in a turn to make them seem a bit more of an unstoppable brute force. If you give them more SPD, I'd give them proportionally less REC.

 

3. SPD of 2 is a conversion of AD&D's 1 attack per round, Ogres are as fast as normal men at attacking. This write-up is the Ogre equivalent of a 0-level fighter (~ a Hero "Normal"); naturally, more experienced Ogres (such as a sub-Chieftan or Chieftan) would get more SPD just as higher level Fighters would. I also should note that I wanted to portray Ogres as big, strong, and tough but not particularly Dexterous or SPeeDy to give humans some sort of (albeit slim) chance against these brutes. And FWIW, in general, I'm trying to keep SPD down for the base types of characters so that I can work in more granularity by having a greater range of improvement for the 'higher level' heroes and villains.

[Eosin]

I mentioned that I might be the odd one out so I will post my "vision" of speed. I am working stuff up for a game and started doing alot of benchmarks and stuff.

 

Eosin's Fantasy Hero Benchmarks

SPEED

2 Farmers, Levy.

3 Soldiers, Guardsmen, Mercs.

4 Elite Guards, Maximus (Gladiator), Gimli, W. Wallace (Braveheart), Gorgon (Birthright)

5 Conan, Arthur, Aragorn, Beowulf, Hercules (Sorbo), Lancelot, Galad (WOT).

6 Manslayer (Birthright), Leagolas (movie), Xena.

 

I tend to float into a slightly higher zone than your stuff but....I really would like to steal your idea for ACM. I really think it is pretty good for FH.

[Hierax]

Updated Version (3rd Draft)Here's an updated version taking into account the feedback above (including using the standard non-growth 5th ed. method).The only thing I couldn't fully address was the Defences, that Blue Jogger pointed out, I could only reduce the Ogre's rDEF to 3 since I want Half-Ogres to have 2 rDEF and Orcs to have 1 rDEF, basically it had to stay to keep the range of toughness giving each level a unique number.I noticed that I paid too much for the Nose and changed it to normal smell and saved a bunch of points.I used these to add in some immunity to disease (bacterial and viral) because Ogres tend to dwell in infested filth and yet never seem to be sick because of it. Please let me know if anyone has any further suggestions.Ogre (200 Point Monster)Player: Generic NPC Monster Template

Val	Char	Cost
30	STR	20
8	DEX	-6
20	CON	20
16	BODY	12
6	INT	-4
8	EGO	-4
6/16	PRE	-4
6	COM	-2
12	PD	6
8	ED	4
2	SPD	2
20	REC	20
40	END	0
53	STUN	12

7" RUN21" SWIM-13" LEAP-3Characteristics Cost: 74

Cost	Power	END
4	Thick Warty Skin: Damage Resistance (3 PD/3 ED), Inherent (+1/4) (4 Active Points)
15	Bigger (1.5x): Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 25%
15	Bigger (1.5x): Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 25%
15	Fangs/Claws: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1/2d6 (1d6+1 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (15 Active Points)
4	Long Arms: Stretching 1", Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (11 Active Points); Limited Power (Only 1/2" Stretch) (-1), Always On (-1/2), No Velocity Damage (-1/4), no Noncombat Stretching (-1/4)
5	Intimidating (Impressive Size): +10 PRE (10 Active Points); Limited Power (Only for PRE Attacks) (-1)
6	Red Eyes: Infrared Perception (Sight Group), +1 to PER Roll
7	Big Nose: (Total: 7 Active Cost, 7 Real Cost) +2 PER with Normal Smell (Real Cost: 2) plus Discriminatory with Normal Smell (Real Cost: 5)
4	Heavy: Knockback Resistance -2"
7	Filth Dweller: Life Support (Immunity Viral Infections; Immunity Bacterial Infections)

Powers Cost: 82

Cost	Skill
10	+2 with HTH Combat
6	+2 with Sweep, Haymaker, Move Through
2	WF: Common Melee Weapons, Thrown Rocks
2	PS 11-
0	Language (basic conversation) (1 Active Points)
2	Knowledge Skill: Lair and Surrounding Environment 11-
2	Survival 11-

Skills Cost: 24

Cost	Talent
15	Combat Sense 10-
5	Resistance (5 points)

Talents Cost: 20

Cost	Equipment	END
2	Animal Hides: Armor (2 PD/2 ED) (6 Active Points); Independent (-2), OIF (-1/2)
7	Great Club (Human Sized) or Club (Ogre-Sized): Hand-To-Hand Attack +6d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (45 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (Focus - Great Club; -1), STR Minimum 17 (-3/4), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4)
11	Great Club (Ogre-Sized): Hand-To-Hand Attack +9d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (67 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (Focus - Great Club; -1), STR Minimum 23 (-1), Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4)

Equipment costs shown above are for reference only, and are not included in Total Cost.Total Character Cost: 200

Val	Disadvantages
15	Distinctive Features - Ogre: (Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
20	Enraged When Takes BODY Damage: (Common), go 11-, recover 11-
10	Hunted by Humanoid Haters: 8- (As Pow, Harshly Punish)
10	Physical Limitation - Bigger And Easier to be Seen and be Hit (2x human size = -1 DCV, and +1 to PER Rolls to Percieve): (Frequently, Slightly Impairing)
5	Physical Limitation - Enormous Appetite - Needs to Eat 3.5 times as much as a normal man: (Infrequently, Slightly Impairing)
15	Psychological Limitation - Ogreish - Bloodlust, Bully, Casual Killer, Greedy, Hatred of Demi-Humans, Lazy, Overconfident, Sadistic, Stubborn: (Common, Strong)
5	Reputation (Killing Machines): , 8-
20	Monster Bonus (to be replaced by NCM when get proper Hero Designer Template Done)

Disadvantage Points: 100Base Points: 100Experience Required: 0Total Experience Available: 0Experience Unspent: 0

Height: 2.75 m	Hair: Brown
Weight: 270.00 kg	Eyes: Brown

Appearance: Ogres are huge fearsome human-like creatures, usually 8 to 10 feet tall. They wear animal skins for clothes, and often live in fithly infested caves.Personality: Selfish Brutish Bullying Mentality.Quote:Background: Ogres are one of the classic xD&D monsters that have been around since the very beginning. I think that it’s safe to say that they’ve seen action in almost every xD&D campaign from the mid-70s to today and will continue to be a staple of D&D as long as gamers crawl the dungeons of their imaginations.

 

Personally, my first encounter with an ogre was way back in May of 1983 in module B2 – Keep on the Borderlands. I remember it as one of the toughest monsters of the entire dungeon. This conversion is a tribute to that first unnamed ogre who was such a worthy opponent. Since then I’ve seen countless others slay and be slain and hope that by doing this conversion someone else gets the same thrill that I did so long ago. Let me know how you fare against my version of an Ogre.

Powers/Tactics: Ogres have been called combat machines and rightfully so. They can both strong and tough being able to dish out and take an incredible amount of damage.Campaign Use: If you find Ogres a bit too tough of a challenge, try using a Half-Ogre; If you need a bit tougher, try a Hill Giant or a Troll.

 

SOURCES:

- xD&D Sources

- D&D – Monsters & Treasure (1974) p.3,8.

- AD&D 1st Edition – Monster Manual (1977) p.75.

- D&D Basic Rules (1979) p.31.

- D&D Basic Rules (1981) p.40.

- D&D – B2 – The Keep on the Borderlands (1981) p.17

- D&D Rules Cyclopedia (1991) p.198.

- AD&D 2nd Edition – Monster Manual (1993) p.272-273.

- D20/D&D 3rd Edition – Monster Manual (2000) p.144.

- Hackmaster – Hacklopedia of Beasts Vol. VI (2001) p.23-25.

 

Hero Sources

- Hero System Bestiary (4th ed.) (1992) p.88.

- Joe’s Dungeon Hero (last version read 2000-02-03)

- Ed “Killer Shrike†Hastings (last version read 2002-10-31)

- FH5e.399; MMM.75-76

[Hierax]

Half-Ogre (First Draft)Here's a quick first draft of a Half-Ogre to put things into perspective and to give something to use if a full-blooded Ogre is too tough and crude for.Half-Ogre (75 Point NPC/Monster)Player: Generic NPC/Monster Template

Val	Char	Cost
20	STR	10
8	DEX	-6
15	CON	10
12	BODY	4
8	INT	-2
8	EGO	-4
8/15	PRE	-2
8	COM	-1
6	PD	2
4	ED	1
2	SPD	2
10	REC	6
30	END	0
36	STUN	6

7" RUN21" SWIM-12" LEAP-2Characteristics Cost: 25

Cost	Power	END
2	Thick Warty Skin: Damage Resistance (2 PD/2 ED), Inherent (+1/4)
7	Fangs/Claws: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1 point (0 1/2d6 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (7 Active Points)
3	Long Arms: Stretching 1", Inherent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (11 Active Points); Limited Power (Only 1/4" Stretch) (-2), Always On (-1/2), No Velocity Damage (-1/4), no Noncombat Stretching (-1/4)
3	Intimidating (Impressive Size and Aggressive Approach): +7 PRE (7 Active Points); Limited Power (Only for PRE Attacks) (-1)
5	Red Eyes: Infrared Perception (Sight Group)
1	Big Nose: +1 PER with Normal Smell
2	Heavy: Knockback Resistance -1"
3	Filth Dwelling Heritage: Life Support (Immunity Viral Infections; Immunity Bacterial Infections) (7 Active Points); Activation Roll 11- (-1)

Powers Cost: 26

Cost	Skill
8	+1 with All Combat
3	+1 with Sweep, Haymaker, Move Through
4	WF: Common Melee Weapons, Common Missile Weapons
2	PS 11-
0	Language (fluent conversation) (2 Active Points)
1	Language (basic conversation)
2	Knowledge Skill: Home and Surrounding Territory 11-
2	Survival 12-

Skills Cost: 22

Cost	Talent
2	Resistance (2 points)

Talents Cost: 2

Cost	Equipment	END
2	Rough Studded Leather: Armor (3 PD/3 ED) (9 Active Points); Independent (-2), OIF (-1/2)
8	Big-Assed Bastard Sword: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6 (2d6+1 w/STR), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (45 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (-1), STR Minimum 15 (-3/4), Required Hands Two-Handed (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4)

Equipment costs shown above are for reference only, and are not included in Total Cost.

Val	Disadvantages
15	Distinctive Features - Half-Ogre: (Concealable; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
10	Hunted by Humanoid Haters: 8- (As Pow, Harshly Punish)
10	Physical Limitation - Bigger And Easier to be Seen and be Hit (2x human size = -1 DCV, and +1 to PER Rolls to Percieve): (Frequently, Slightly Impairing)
5	Physical Limitation - Enormous Appetite - Needs to Eat Twice as much as a normal man: (Infrequently, Slightly Impairing)
10	Psychological Limitation - Ogreish - Bloodlust, Bully, Casual Killer, Greedy, Hatred of Demi-Humans, Lazy, Overconfident, Sadistic, Stubborn: (Common, Moderate)
5	Reputation (Hack and Slasher): , 8-
20	Monster Bonus (to be replaced by NCM when get proper Hero Designer Template Done)

Disadvantage Points: 75

Base Points: 25Experience Required: 0Total Experience Available: 0Experience Unspent: 0Total Character Cost: 75

Height: 2.28 m	Hair: Dark
Weight: 164.00 kg	Eyes: Brown

Appearance: Typically, a Half-Ogre is 7.5' (2.28 m) tall and weighs in at about 360 lbs (164 kg) (mainly ranging from 7' to 8' tall and 315 to 425 lbs). They have swarthy, dull complexions with dark, lank hair.Personality: Kill, Loot, Don't Rinse, Repeat.Quote:Background: The third most popular half-breed after Half-Orcs and Half-Elves, the Half-Ogre is in many ways race best suited to the typical xD&D fighting mentality -- Kill 'em all and take their stuff Considered as much NPC as Monster but can go either way.Powers/Tactics: Smash and Bash or Hack and Slash depending on the biggest weapons available.Campaign Use: Half-Ogres are for when you need a really big goon that's not quite human; If you need something a bit tougher look at Bugbears or full-blooded Ogres; If you need something a bit weaker, look at Gnolls, Hobgoblins or even Orcs.

 

SOURCES:

- Gary Gygax "The Half-Ogre, Smiting Him Hip and Thigh" the Sorcerer's Scroll column in Dragon Magazine #29 (Month, Year)

- Roger E. Moore "The Whole Half-Ogre" Dragon Magazine #73 (May 1983) reprinted in Best of Dragon Magazine IV (May 1985).

- AD&D MM.2e.274-275 (1993)

 

CONVERSION NOTES:

- Treat as 2+1 HD Monsters in xD&D; In Hero, aim for 100 points (or 75 points so a PC could customize up to 100 points).

For a NPC or PC allow 25 points to customize and make it a 100 point character. For a Monster it is pretty good to go 'as is'.Again, as always, any suggestions on how I can improve this write-up are most welcome...

[Hierax]

Ogre and Half-Ogre (Hieraxian) Webpage Update

 

I've updated the write-ups on Ogres and Half-Ogres:

 

    http://www.hierax.com/hero/fantasy/grey/updates.html

 

I'm not going to bother uploading the .hdt files to the boards anymore since they don't seem to get downloaded much. If you want them just replace the ".pdf" of the file name with ".hdt" when you are looking at the files on my site and it'll bring up the template if there is one available.

 

I was able to work in pretty much all of the feedback except for reducing the rDEF as upon further comparisons I have to have Ogres be tougher than some of the lesser creatures in the humanoid continuum, so rDEF is staying at 4; with this, full-blooded Ogres take 4 Average (Standard Effect) hits to Kill with a 3d6 Killing Attack, and Half-Ogres take 2 of the same hits to kill; approximately 8 hits and 3 hits respectively for 2d6K; with "Advantaged" magical attacks (e.g., Armor Piercing and/or Penetrating), the number of hits to kill can be further reduced); all in all Ogres (and Half-Ogres) are pretty bloody tough but not impossible to kill, looks like a good solid challenge, let me know how they work out for you if you adapt them to your game...

 

In addition to addressing the issues brought up in the feedback, I've done some other extensions as well. but by no means a final version but they should be usable "as is" now, I'll move on to other monsters now and revise it sometime down the road based on whatever feedback I get it the future...