BobGreenwade Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Now that we've extended the ATRI scale to include more drive options, what say we see what new, advanced energy sources we can devise? To sum up the Interstellar drive column of the list: ATRI 14 = Slipstream ATRI 15 = Wormhold generator ATRI 16 = Tesseract drive ATRI 17 = Zero Hole gates ATRI 18 = Probability drive (For details on these, see the other thread. Now, what sort of power sources can we think of to go along with these, extending beyond Zero Point energy? I think the ultimate level (ATRI 18) would probably be "Cosmic energy," tapping into the natural energy reserves of the universe itself; but I'd like to see what others think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroooo Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 The one that immediatley comes to mind is the quantum singularity reactor (as seen in ST:TNG's Romulans and B5's Minbari). Aroooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzinbane Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Hmm As mentioned there is the quantum singularity idea and then the obvious anti-matter source - the other Star trek drive system. In theory though if one can open a worm hole to drive a ship through one could open a hole to the center of a quasar or even some other plane which has a MUCH higher energy state and tap that. Imagine if you could tap a supernova or hypernova right at ignition point? Another idea is thought based - like the Travellor on ST TNG. The idea of this is (as far as I can tell) that time and space exist mainly as limitations imposed by the minds of sentient beings. Sort of like the old joke that from a scientific viewpoint - aerodynamics, weight and wing area a bumblebee should not be able to fly. They can because they don't know they can't. The Travellor idea is that we CAN fly but don't know we can (so we don't). Who needs a power source when you can just think yourself to somewhere else? I wish I could "think" it to Friday afternoon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Actually, the bit about bumblebees is a distorted rumor that has life because it's more dramatic than the truth. The truth is that an aerodynamics student ran some numbers and determined that a bumblebee, given its wing area and weight, would have a stall speed higher than its actual top speed--if it were a fixed-wing aircraft. Which, of course, it isn't. Adding powered wings to the mix really changes things. A helicopter doesn't have enough wing area to hold itself up at zero airspeed, but nobody ever claims that it shouldn't fly. Zeropoint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkenkin Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Here is a spin on the Black Hole Power Plant that would be of lower tech. It has it origin in the ram-scoop principal. You can't really scoop up enough matter or collect enough energy in space to keep your ship going for long ( unless you are in a matter rich area, close enough to a sun for solar energy, or what not.) So to make the scoop work for you with out a planet to scoop from you take a lesson form your brother the black hole. Increase the strength of your ships gravitational field to pull matter to you. Then set up an other field to Chanel the incoming mass around your ship to the Scoops. This way you get the benefit of being able to collect mass from a larger area and therefor more energy for your ship. The main draw back is that, because your mass has not changed, you may be moved to the object you want to collect it it's too big. Minor complication. It could have other uses to. Just because of its nature. Drakkenkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkenkin Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Poor Mans Power Plant... Poor Mans Power Plant... Millions of drugged up bio-engineered mice, and or hamsters, with a wheel in their cage that generates electricity when spun. *Life Span: Thanks to bio-engineering a lot longer then normal. (and they get a positive rush while in the wheel, so don't worry about them not being happy. ) *Fuel: You will need a load of grain, but that should be cheep compared to antimatter! *Self renewing parts: Once you have required number for your ship many you can just have more 'made'...if one 'brakes down.' Side effect: Smell and need of self cleaning cages to aid in the life span of your parts. ----------------- Drakkenkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzinbane Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Re- bumblebees: yes I know, but it's more fun to say they fly because they don't know that they can't. Another power source - absolutly proposterous of course... have the entire human race in little capsules and draw power from them, meanwhile keeping them in an illusionary state thinking that they are living normal lives. This of course while one could be keeping elephants or whales or something that generates dozens of times the power and also ignoring geothermal power from volcanoes and the like which would out power bio power by tens of thousands of levels... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted February 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 The quantum singularity and matter-scoop ideas have merit. The first may be (by James' or Steve's intent) the same thing as zero point energy, already on the table at ATRI 12. If zero point is something more advanced, then maybe it can be moved up the scale to 13 and quantum singularity technology put in its place. Where would the gravity-based matter-scoop idea fall in the energy production scale, I wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkenkin Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 I would think it would fall in some were after ATRI 12 as that is meant to be the current level of tech and they only have drive systems that work on principles of gravity. At least I think that's what they have in the TE. If that is correct I would think it would be ATRI 14 or ATRI 13 but not any more. It would not make sense that this tech would be more advance then ATRI 15, a Wormhold generator. Drakkenkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snarf Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Kzinbane Re- bumblebees: yes I know, but it's more fun to say they fly because they don't know that they can't. Another power source - absolutly proposterous of course... have the entire human race in little capsules and draw power from them, meanwhile keeping them in an illusionary state thinking that they are living normal lives. This of course while one could be keeping elephants or whales or something that generates dozens of times the power and also ignoring geothermal power from volcanoes and the like which would out power bio power by tens of thousands of levels... Side Effects: Periodically transforms some dude into Jesus/Superman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroooo Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Another idea: mass converter. Since mass is energy, you could convert any raw material into energy. Aroooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigel Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Aroooo Another idea: mass converter. Since mass is energy, you could convert any raw material into energy. Aroooo Isn't that what powers Doc Brown's future DeLorean in Back to the Future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroooo Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Rigel Isn't that what powers Doc Brown's future DeLorean in Back to the Future? Among other sources, yup, thats the one. I'd put it above anti-matter but below singularity on the tech scale. Aroooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted February 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 Looking good! I'm liking these ideas. I think we'll probably need (or at least want) one or two more. Tomorrow I'll put together what we have, and compare it to the transportation options to see where we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkenkin Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 Combine Aroooos idea of a Mass Converter with my Grav-Scoop ® and you would have larger ship that could pull in small asteroids and convert them to 'fuel'. Heck, if the ship was the right size you could suck in fighters or other ships and convert them to fuel... Hay then you could attach that ability to a colossal ship with a destructive cutting tractor beam and take down big ships or EVEN planets... Just remembered that has kind of been done before in Star Trek in ‘The Dooms Day Device’ or was it jut called ‘Dooms Day.’ Still it sounds cool. Drakkenkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted February 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 OK, when I said I'd do this yesterday I forgot that I was going to be gone for most of the day. But here I am now. This is what we've come up with thus far, as I interpret it: ATRI 14 = Zero Point ATRI 15 = Quantum Singularity ATRI 16 = Matter Conversion ATRI 17 = ATRI 18 = Cosmic Energy Any further comments, suggestions, input...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakkenkin Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 I think Matter Conversion should be of a lower tech then Quantum Singularity an Zero Point. We can do it in limited forms right now. We just can't do it with any efficiency. Working with such a powerful force as gravity and such, especially to the point of containing a black hole in your ship (Quantum Singularity Drive.) Drakkenkin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aroooo Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 Yeah, seeing it listed out I have to agree. I think singularity should be higher than mass conversion. Especially if they have teleportation tech... Aroooo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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