Grip Strength

[badger3k]

Translating the Bloodline abilities from D&D's Unearthed Arcana (a buncha house rules, including 3d6 rules for the d20 system!). These abilities will be prefabs that someone with an ancestor of the appropriate type can take (gives more for the players to choose from).

 

I'll post the hdp files when I get finished (few days hopefully) if anyone wants them. I also will put up the rest of my Realms conversions.

 

Anyway, one ability that is in the Titan bloodline is the ability to use oversized weapons. I want to translate this into the ability to wield a two-handed weapon in one hand. The question is : how to do it?

 

I've thought of extra strength, only for using 2h weapon in one hand (-1) - the limit is what I am not sure of. -1 may not be enough, but since using a 2h weapon in one hand just increases the Str Min by +2, you'd only need to buy 2 Str. Makes it one point.

 

The other way is to buy a naked modifier with enough points to buy off the 2h limitation. This is probably more than 1 point, so this might be a better way to go.

 

Any comments on how you'd do it?

[Dr Lucky]

I would add 0 END to the 2 points of STR. No reason to be spending an extra point of END each time the character picks up the weapon.

[badger3k]

Originally posted by Dr Lucky

I would add 0 END to the 2 points of STR. No reason to be spending an extra point of END each time the character picks up the weapon.

 

Good point - still comes out to one point. Maybe just use a custom talent. That way I can avoid the little difficulty like this. Probably will - just took a look at great sword - taking the 2h mod to 1h only added one point to the final total. It might not be cost effective (in both game and my effort) to figure it out (tried to do a required hands 1 naked mod and it cost 0 - maybe use a +1/2 advantage? - no, that makes it way too expensive).

 

3 point talent? Its usefulness is limited somewhat, and would only negate the STR min adjustment for 2h used in one hand.

 

Still, it's only a 2 point difference. Maybe I'll need to see if that really will have any game affect at all. If no effect, then no need.

 

Anybody who reads this ever see much use of 2h weapons like this?

[Dr Lucky]

Originally posted by badger3k

Good point - still comes out to one point. Maybe just use a custom talent. That way I can avoid the little difficulty like this. Probably will - just took a look at great sword - taking the 2h mod to 1h only added one point to the final total. It might not be cost effective (in both game and my effort) to figure it out (tried to do a required hands 1 naked mod and it cost 0 - maybe use a +1/2 advantage? - no, that makes it way too expensive).

 

3 point talent? Its usefulness is limited somewhat, and would only negate the STR min adjustment for 2h used in one hand.

 

Still, it's only a 2 point difference. Maybe I'll need to see if that really will have any game affect at all. If no effect, then no need.

 

Anybody who reads this ever see much use of 2h weapons like this?

 

A 3 point talent?!? Why? How would you possibly construct this to equal 3 points? And why would you want to? For 2 points, I could just buy the two points of STR. Even if I had cleared NCM, I would rather spend 4 points on the STR than the 3 point talent. It really is only worth 1 point. Why make it cost more for a 1 point ability that isn't really that good to begin with?

[Blue Jogger]

It's 2 STR for a hand and half in one hand. 3 STR for two-handed in one hand.

 

Assuming at 20+ STR, that makes it +3 STR @ 0 END (9 points), -1 (Only for one-handed use of a two-handed weapon), -1/2 No figured.

 

That makes it about a 3 point (ok, 3.6) talent. At this point, it's just Strength to add for the purposes of doing extra damage and it's not enough (by itself) to add one damage class. Here buying 2 Combat Skill Levels for 6 points is probably a better investment.

 

But, you only really need it if you're under 20 STR (20+ STR and you can wield any 2H in one hand, no problem), which would make a 2 point talent. In this case, you are avoiding the penality of not being able to use the sword because you are too weak. This is a -1 OCV and a damage class lost. Definately worth a 2 point talent.

[Dr Lucky]

Originally posted by Blue Jogger

It's 2 STR for a hand and half in one hand. 3 STR for two-handed in one hand.

 

Assuming at 20+ STR, that makes it +3 STR @ 0 END (9 points), -1 (Only for one-handed use of a two-handed weapon), -1/2 No figured.

 

That makes it about a 3 point (ok, 3.6) talent. At this point, it's just Strength to add for the purposes of doing extra damage and it's not enough (by itself) to add one damage class. Here buying 2 Combat Skill Levels for 6 points is probably a better investment.

 

But, you only really need it if you're under 20 STR (20+ STR and you can wield any 2H in one hand, no problem), which would make a 2 point talent. In this case, you are avoiding the penality of not being able to use the sword because you are too weak. This is a -1 OCV and a damage class lost. Definately worth a 2 point talent.

 

With 3 points of STR, it does become a 2 point talent, but never a 3 point talent, even with 0 END applied. 3 points of STR = 3 pts. 0 END (+1/2) means 3 x 1.5 = 4.5 (4 Active Points) As long as the disads fall in the -3/4 to -1 1/2 range, the real cost becomes 2. The -1 1/2 you have works. Since this is being bought as a talent, it never gets the doubling associated with exceeding NCM. That would be like doubling the base cost of the DEX associated with lightning reflexes if someone exceeded 20 DEX.

[Greatwyrm]

Could you do a naked advantage that buys off the 2H limitation up to a certain size/point value of weapons? Would it be easier or cheaper than limited additional strength?

[Blue Jogger]

Hmm, a Great Sword is 45 Active Points (2D6K @ 0 END)

The smallest STR Min for a 2 Handed weapon is 14, that means a minimum of -2 1/4 of Limitations (including Required Hands).

 

That means its 14 Points. We then can buy -1/2, STR Min of 11 and One Handed (no bonus). (total: -1 3/4) That would costs 16 pts.

 

Edit: Had to re-do the math. I'm still not doing exactly right, it would cost more if it was Naked Advantage to all 2H and 1 1/2H weapons. But realistically, there are only a few weapons where this talent would really give you the edge (pun intended).

 

This makes it roughly 2 points.

 

[Blue Jogger]

Originally posted by Dr Lucky

That would be like doubling the base cost of the DEX associated with lightning reflexes if someone exceeded 20 DEX.

 

Yeah, your right. However, some people actually run STR at the 2 points for 1 model so I used that to figure the upper cost.

 

I was never advocating that it should cost more than 2 points.

 

Edit: I'm almost convinced that it's a 1 point, considering that it is very rare that it actually helps (gives you an additional damage class or avoids penalities for not being strong enough) as you stated.

[badger3k]

Thanks for the responses and analysis. The main reason I used three as a figure for the talent is that I don't like a two-point talents in general - most are 3 or more points (environmental movement and resistance are the ones that are less). Three points would put it into the same ballpark as most other ones. Plus, with three points I can always throw in something extra for it (exactly what I am not sure now, but I haven't looked at all the ramifications yet, unless everything mentioned is all there is).

 

2 might be better, but since it is only 3 Str additional (I use it as a power, so the cost is 3, 0 END +1/2 = 4.5 = 4; Only for Str min purposes at -1 - (I don't think I need no figured, since its included in the other limitation IMO) would make it 2 points total. Add in no figured and its 1.6, also 2.

 

Yeah, 3 is too much after looking at it. I'll probably put it in as a 2 point custom talent. Putting it as one doesn't work to my mind. Since it is rare that it would arise normally, the main reason you'd take it is to use it, so for me 1 point is too small (and 2 is so much better! ).

 

I can see the ability being taken (at least one of my players wields a great sword, and now uses the broadsword for use with a shield. Add this in and I can see him with the greatsword and shield (the penalty was the only thing stopping him now, until he gets his Str up). Of course, it will be limited to the bloodline for now, and he prefers straight humans.

[lensman]

Titan Bloodline gift

 

4 +10 STR

Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2)

Limited Power (-2)

Only for calculating STR min / base damage

Limited Power (-1/2)

Bloodline complications

 

Giant weapons, +5 STR min for every level of growth

 

This is a way I would build the Talent.

[PhilFleischmann]

How 'bout buying this as Extra Limbs, only two weild 2-h weapons? The SFX is simply weilding a 2h weapon with one hand. After all, a three-armed monster could wield a 2h weapon and a shield at the same time. Then you don't have to deal with the cost of STR and figuring out all that other stuff (no figured, etc.).

 

It would still come out to 1-3 points, Only to Weild Multi-handed Weapons (-1?), One "real hand" must always be used (-0.5) = 2 points.

 

This second lim reflects the fact that you still have to use a hand, i.e., you could weild no more than 2 greatswords at a time (two-weapon fighting) unless you have more than 2 "real hands". This talent shouldn't let you wield 10 weapons at once.