mystical challenge

[hypnotica]

i have a challenge i would like to set forth to anyone who has it in them to go for the mystic challenge. Using fantasy hero, write up abilities that you can give your non magic users ie theives, assassins, fighters, etc using the powers in hero. Now the crux is you have to justify how the power would work being non magical, you have to justify it. For instance Clinging is a power i want my theif to be able to have. She can cling to surfaces walking alone the wall and or ceiling at will, but my theif doesnt know nor can she use magic what am i to do?? I could say she has suction cups on her shoes that allow her to walk on walls thus justifying a power for my non magic user characters.

[hypnotica]

Re: mystical challenge

 

To give some background on why im asking this i have a friend who has a theif and im trying to explain to her that she can use any power in hero even though she s not a magic user and it doesnt have to be magical. If your creative enough to justify how the power works (is that the special effect?) then you can have a magic power. I was trying to explain about shadow walk that she wants for her theif she wants to be able to move from shadow to shadow without being noticed (not invisibility) she just cant understand that a power doesnt have to be a magical ability. I tried to say maybe have it was a learned ability from her assassins guild teachers. Its not a magical power but she can move from shadow to shadow. I suggested teleport but only from shadow to shadow and you have to have sneakiness bought to 18- before you can buy this Talent.

[Celtic Cowboy]

Re: mystical challenge

 

I suggested teleport but only from shadow to shadow and you have to have sneakiness bought to 18- before you can buy this Talent.

 

I think you could use either the teleport or invis and add requires a stealth roll to use.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: mystical challenge

 

http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Conversion3e/Class3e/rogues.shtml

[hypnotica]

Re: mystical challenge

 

the main thing she wants is shadow walk and she wants to move from shadow to shadow but she see s it as being magic what i was looking for were two fold one i wanted a good write up of shadow walk for a thief/assassin that is a talent something she would have that wouldnt be magical and two to show her different examples of where you can write up a power as a non magical ability/talent ..... I WANT TO PROVE IM RIGHT HERE ... LOL

[SirViss]

Re: mystical challenge

 

the main thing she wants is shadow walk and she wants to move from shadow to shadow but she see s it as being magic what i was looking for were two fold one i wanted a good write up of shadow walk for a thief/assassin that is a talent something she would have that wouldnt be magical and two to show her different examples of where you can write up a power as a non magical ability/talent ..... I WANT TO PROVE IM RIGHT HERE ... LOL

 

You should ask her if she WANTS it to be magical. That part is only SFX, thus it's possible if the GM allows it. Basically, if the GM (you, right?) allows a non-magical shadow walk, then you are right!!!

 

Be sure she also understands that if the ability is magical in nature it could be affected by Detect Magic, a suppress magic effect (antimagic areas, etc), and anything else that might affect magic. If she wants the ability to be unaffected by such, she might see the light of day.

[hypnotica]

Re: mystical challenge

 

i think im explaining things right but the people im explaining this to are very basic to role playing and im not sure if im being very helpful i try to explain that having a fireball or shadow walking or poison hands or clinging or lightning bolt, anything that would be defined by a power, is just a special f/x. You decide what power or ability you want and then you decide how you want them to work in the game and then go to the power section in the rules and make the best of what you find. Am i right? so going back to the beginning challenge how many non magical (meaning any non mage class can use) abilities/powers can you give your normal fantasy characters? Then you need to justify how they work how is it non magical

[Greatwyrm]

Re: mystical challenge

 

You're on the right track, Hypnotica. HERO is much easier to work with as long as you have a good idea of what you want before you start trying to build it.

 

You might want to use a few examples of how powers with the same point cost and basic effect might have very different f/x. For example, a handgun and a magical firebolt spell cost about the same and do the same damage, but one is magic and one isn't. For the same points, you could freeze someone's hands in a block of ice or put handcuffs on them. Again, similar points, they're both Entangles, but very different f/x.

 

For your Hide in Shadows example, all Invisibility means is people can't see you. It doesn't really matter if you're actually invisible or just really well hidden in the shadows, it's basically the same thing -- people can't see you. I'd do a Hide in Shadows as Invisibility with the limitations Only in Shadows and Requires Skill Roll: Stealth. There you have it. If you don't have shadows or if you forget to put your flashlight away, you're not invisible. No magic, just really skilled.

[Talon]

Re: mystical challenge

 

Counterstrike, defined as an HKA Damage Shield, character must be wielding a weapon, damage limited to weapon damage, attack roll required. Special effect is a fighting style involving instant response to all attacks.

 

(The more daring might construct this as a Naked Advantage.)

 

Teleport 1", Usable As Attack, reduced weight limit (say 5 kg or so), No Range, only to character's hand -- a character so skilled at Disarm that the target's Strength is irrelevant. Also handy for pickpocketing if you buy Invisible Power Effects.

[Blue Jogger]

Re: mystical challenge

 

Hmm. Here's a few non-magical ones I wrote up. They should be considered Skills.

 

Rage

Characters with this skill can trigger within himself pent up anger and frustration and release it to tap into his reserves of adrenaline. Characters caught in this rush are still aware of what's going on, but are unable to stop and discuss things prefering to either fight or flee. Taking a Recovery or simular calm actions requires an EGO roll while Raging.

 

+10 STR, Charges (4 times/5 minutes), Costs END, x2 END, -1/4 Incantations (Loud Yell), -1/4 Minor Side Effect, Character no longer acts in a calm and rational fashion. (4 real points)

 

Backstab

When striking unaware from behind, the thief or assassin can stab for the Vitals for a devastating blow. Note this only works on humanoid creatures. (If hit location is not used, the attack does double BODY and either 1 1/2 times STUN or an automatic x4 STUN multiplier upon hit and successful activation)

 

+8 OCV, (-1) Only to negate penalities to striking to the Vitals, (-1) Only when striking from behind, Activation 11- (10 real points)

[hypnotica]

Re: mystical challenge

 

i appreciate the few of you who stepped up to meet the challenge yet im feeling that either im not asking the right question or no one really has a good enough imagination to come with a variety of examples to meet the challenge. So once again i state the challenge come up with several examples of powers in hero i.e... invisibility,teleportation,flight,hka/rka(easy ones here), energy blast,super leap etc etc etc that you would give a normal "NON Magic User" and define how they would work... i liked the entangle example hand cuffs versus ice cuffs both do the same thing you entangle the person yet one is clearly normal and the other magical (or sci fi genre)...examples like this are what im looking for another example clinging (magical example)=spider climb your embued with the natural ability of spiders to climb surfaces with ease //(Normal Example)= climbing boots where you have small suction cups or a sticky substance on the bottom of shoes and gloves enabling the wearer to walk along surfaces...

[BlackSword]

Re: mystical challenge

 

A lot of 'normal' versions of these powers can be seen by watching anime or other over the top animation (He-Man, Samurai Jack, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon). I don't watch a lot of anime, but they tend to have characters that have trained to perfection of a particular technique such that they perform manuvuers which are seemingly impossible and could only be described by powers if/when translated to Hero.

 

One confusion is some of these powers might be considered 'mystic' but not magic. When I think of mystic powers, I think of powers like chi strikes and other ways of harnessing internal energies which may not be magic, but is extra-natural.

 

Don't have my book so I can't do proper write-ups, but some thoughts

 

invisibility

-Normal: This is just super-stealth. A ranger or druids ability to blend with the natural world. A thief's ability to complete cloak himself in shadows. I would have to check the invisibility power but it might also include such things as 'trackless' step

-Magic: Familar invisibility where light is bent around the person such that they could be standing right in front of you and you would never know (ala invisible man)

 

teleportation

-Normal: The ability to move so fast the eye cannot perceive it. This is used mainly so that people can't track you like they could if you were running. (might require a perception roll to see the opponent sees where you appear). Common in over the top animation, usually accopianed by a *whoosh* sound effect.

-Magic: Open a gate, step through gate, appear someplace else.

 

flight

-Normal: Don't know. I would glide and other movement powers. Unless the person has wings, flight would be limited to using a vehicle (imo, someone may have a better idea than me)

-magic: Magic flight is pretty par for the course

 

hka/rka

-Normal: swords/arrows

-Magic: Summon magic sword or weapon/deadly magic ranged attacks

 

energy blast

-Normal: Something like a thrown explosive, like napalm. Limited by strength (how far you can throw a flask) or a weapons range (putting it on an arrow). If you have USPDB, under speedster powers it includes EB for thrown blunt objects. Granted the key is that its a speedster so the missle is being thrown at very high velocity, but it could also be used to represent someone with a super fast and accurate throw (like a baseball pitcher teleported to a fantasy setting)

-Magic; Fireball spell, energy blast spell, etc.(magic missle)

 

super leap

-Normal: Trained self to leap excessive distances, spring heels, etc

-Magic: Spell which allows the caster to jump long distances and land unharmed (unless the spell is dispelled in mid leap in which the caster comes crashing to the ground)

[Blue Jogger]

Re: mystical challenge

 

flight

-Normal: Don't know. I would glide and other movement powers. Unless the person has wings, flight would be limited to using a vehicle (imo, someone may have a better idea than me)

 

Well, there's Daedalus and Icarus. Daedalus made wings for himself and his son, Icarus, and warned him not to fly to close to the sun. He flew up so high that the sun melted the wax that was holding Icarus wings together which caused him to fall and die.

 

Although the modern mind would say that would be impossible without magic, the story portrays the wings as a technological device that anyone with skill could construct.

 

Flight, Gestures Throughout, OAF - Wings, Bulky, -1/4 Lim: Wings will fall apart if user flies too close to the sun or will clog if too damp.

[hypnotica]

Re: mystical challenge

 

so far looks like blacksword is in the lead he has given many examples and backed up how a normal would use it WOO HOO lets see some more creativity Thank everyone that has sumbitted their ideas too i think they're all great!!!!

[Greatwyrm]

Re: mystical challenge

 

i appreciate the few of you who stepped up to meet the challenge yet im feeling that either im not asking the right question or no one really has a good enough imagination to come with a variety of examples to meet the challenge.

 

I don't think the problem is either of these. As I said before, the HERO system is much easier to work with when you have your "excuse" for a power in mind before you try to build it. I don't think anybody here is going to go down the whole list of powers and give you a magical and a non-magical version of each (not that some couldn't do it).

 

The core of the power system is the "reasoning from effect" logic. If you can't describe the power in plain language, you'll never be able to describe it in rules.

 

Look at the examples in your own posts. She wants to sneak between shadows. There's your power description right there. You also came up with a perfectly reasonable justification -- she learned how to be real sneaky from an assassin's guild. Now all you have to do is decide how to make the rules provide what you want. You did that, too. You came up with Invisibility, Only While in Shadows, Requires Skill Roll: Stealth. You also came up with Teleport, Only Between Shadows. Either one could work, depending on how you envision the skill/ability working.

 

The only real challange here is to your imagination. If you can think of it, the rules can probably do it. It might be expensive in points, but it's probably there somewhere.

[hypnotica]

Re: mystical challenge

 

i think that your right i could have people give examples of everything in hero but i wasnt asking for that i wanted many different examples which i got and i thank everyone who responded any input is appreciated even critical input.

i told her that you can make anything from the powers section of the rules and justify it and i stand by that if you have enough imagination and use the limitations and advantages at your disposal but im just not making my point and i wanted some examples to show her and i agree with you that it all depends on your imagination and how you reason the power you want to work.