Multiple-Power Attacks w/ Martial Arts?

[Magmarock]

Just how many different MA maneuvers can one do in a Multiple-Power Attack, anyway?

 

Our group got into a discussion about this a couple of days ago. I looked in the FAQ and didn't see anything about it. If there was a prior discussion regarding Martial Arts and the Multiple-Power Attacks, I'd appreciate a link to the thread(s).

 

The main rules for MPAs are on pages 234-235 in FReD. I'm well aware that MPAs are primarily for creating attacks of different powertypes, such as a Drain & EB, or an EB & Flash, or a Strike & EB, etc., but what about Martial Arts maneuvers? The example on the top of page 235 talks about a Disarm and a Legsweep combo. We got the part about using the worst modifier for each attack and it was't the mechanics of the combo which were in question but, rather, the number of maneuvers allowed at one time. Like, what's to stop Grond from Grabbing a target with one hand, them pounding the target with his other three hands all in one action?

 

Can a Martial Artist do a Legsweep, Strike and NND combo? What about four maneuvers, or 6, or 8? If a PC has enough END to pay for strength, must it only be paid for once, or for each maneuver?

 

A couple of the people in our gaming group thought the inplications were too sick to contemplate and they want to restrict MPAs to not allow Martial Art or Standard Combat Maneuvers in MPAs. I kinda feel this is unfair to Players of Martial Artists (those characters tend to be weaker, combat wise, than other PC archtypes, IMO). Their examples were: What's to stop a villain from doing a Move Through & a Move By as an MPA? What about the Rapid Attack Skill, or the Sweep Maneuver, aren't these required anymore? Do MPAs negate the second option of the Sweep Maneuver which allows for multiple attacks vs. a single target?

 

What have you guys been doing for your games?

 

Mags

[JJR]

Re: Multiple-Power Attacks w/ Martial Arts?

 

I do not know if the hero rules have an implied limit. I believe the examples given only show two maneuvers being used at one time. My campaign has a limit of not more than three maneuvers/powers/abilities being used together in a multiple-powers attack. We do allow ranged and non-ranged attacks to be combined in some instances though.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Multiple-Power Attacks w/ Martial Arts?

 

The HERO rules have suggested limits. They suggest not normally using MPA's with Martial Arts, use Sweep instead.

 

Also, the basic "guidelines" for MPA apply to Martial Arts maneuvers as well, that is, maneuvers with the same "basis" should not be mixed together. That means you can MPA a Strike, Throw and Exert combo together, but not a Strike, Strike, NND(strike) combo...that would require Sweep.

 

Myself? In my games I don't allow MPA with Martial maneuvers (I will allow a single Martial Maneuver in a MPA that used other powers as well) I've determined thats what Sweep is for. In fact, I've been using Sweep this way since back in the 4th edition days...

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Multiple-Power Attacks w/ Martial Arts?

 

Here's the official wording from the FAQ:

 

Q: What is the definition of an Attack Power for purposes of not using “the same Power to attack more than once per Phase?†The example of Martial Disarm and Legsweep being combined in a multiple-Power attack suggests that STR is not considered a single Power for this purpose. If this is the case, is any individually named Maneuver based on STR considered a separate Power for multiple-Power attacks?

 

 

 

A: Maneuvers based on STR count as separate Powers provided their effects are reasonably distinguishable. A Maneuver that causes damage (such as Legsweep) is reasonably distinguishable from one using the Exert basis (such as Martial Disarm) in most instances. Two Maneuvers that simply cause damage (Strike and Martial Strike, for example) generally are not, but the GM should make that call based on the characters, the situation, and other such factors.

 

If you want to hit a single target multiple times with the same, or two similar, damage-causing Maneuvers or attacks (like Martial Strike and Defensive Strike), usually you should pick one of the maneuvers and use a Sweep (or Rapid Fire, if Ranged attacks are involved). Multiple-Power attacks work best when you combine two different forms of attack to generate an interesting effect, not when you just lump two damaging powers together to cause more damage.

 

 

If you hadn't seen this the first time, don't sweat it - it's a big and complex document.

[Magmarock]

Re: Multiple-Power Attacks w/ Martial Arts?

 

If you hadn't seen this the first time' date=' don't sweat it - it's a big and complex document. [/quote']

 

I looked under "General" and "Combat" for the blue headings "Multiple-Power Attacks". Didn't see anything referring specifically. Thanks, though.

 

I originally thought that MA (and Combat) maneuvers were included in the text so that an MPA like Shocking Fist could be done, combining a strike with a 0 Range EB for example. But then the book's example trew me off.

 

I agree that two damage causing maneuvers shouldn't be combined unless a Sweep is being used, after hearing the voices of reason.

 

 

By the way, I can only think of one instance when I would allow the MPA used with more than one damage causing maneuver and that is in a game where the Speed chart is not being used and the PCs only have one attack per "round". This version of MPA would allow the Martial Artist a chance to do those complex maneuvers while keeping them at the same speed as all the other heroes. And the Sweep penalties would still apply.

 

 

Mags