Balancing Brick DCs

[Elbandit]

I have a question fror the experienecd HERO GMs out there.

 

How do you guys handle a Brick's melee attacks for purposes of DC. I have been trying to keep my campaign at a manageable level of 60-75 active points. However, since the brick is already close to that level and with an ongoing campaign I expect he will wnat to up his HTH power some.

 

Thoughts?

[Metaphysician]

Re: Balancing Brick DCs

 

Well, the first thing to do would be to encourage him to take stuff that doesn't up DCs, like non-damage boosting MA maneuvers, or bricks tricks.

 

Alternatively, once you start accumulating XP, you should loosen up the upper limit restrictions over time, as long as people don't abuse the privelege ( dumping all XP into strength and PD/ED every time ).

[tesuji]

Re: Balancing Brick DCs

 

I have a question fror the experienecd HERO GMs out there.

 

How do you guys handle a Brick's melee attacks for purposes of DC. I have been trying to keep my campaign at a manageable level of 60-75 active points. However, since the brick is already close to that level and with an ongoing campaign I expect he will wnat to up his HTH power some.

 

Thoughts?

 

Not sure which of these is the answer you are looking for, so...

 

if you are wondering how to calculate it, i do it just like other attacks. Each d6 that goes vs normal defenses is a dc. if he has skill levels in maneuvers that eliminate their downsides, i count the full maneuver. For example, a brick with 75 strength has 15" leaping. If he buys skill levels to offset move thru penalties, i count him as 15 DC for strength PLUS the DCs for the leaping move thru.

 

If you are wondering what to do when the 75 strength brick wants to spend Xp to raise his attack, I treat it the same as if it were a 15d6 blaster wanting to up his lightning bolt. Typically that means i say "no" if i am still at a 15d6 level in the game.

 

If you are wondering what the brick can do with his XP, you need to convince him that many of the things he thinks he can do require powers, not strength. Then show him a "brick tricks" multipower.

 

For example, you don't let him pick up stuff and wrap up enemies with it. Instead you make him buy the "wrap 'em up" entangle power with limitations like full phase, OIF materials of opportunity, side effect (damage to environment), and a low def but high body. Thats probably something like 75 ap of entangle for him to buy right there.

 

For example, you convince him that you wont allow him to pick up an occupied vehicle and shake it to damage people inside UNLESS he buys an Eb with indirect and area effect power like "Shake n' Bake." That again is easily 75 ap or so of xp to spend.

 

In all lilelihood, you convince him to buy a brick tricks multipower and to buy each of these as slots, each power probably running 4-7 pts for slot cost after the initial 75 cp or so.

 

The net result is you keep him wanting to buy "new tricks" of the same current power level and not spending his Xp on upping the power level itself.

 

This is close to what blasters do too.

[RDU Neil]

Re: Balancing Brick DCs

 

Well, the first thing to do would be to encourage him to take stuff that doesn't up DCs, like non-damage boosting MA maneuvers, or bricks tricks.

 

Alternatively, once you start accumulating XP, you should loosen up the upper limit restrictions over time, as long as people don't abuse the privelege ( dumping all XP into strength and PD/ED every time ).

 

Metaphysician is spot on, here. If this is a true superheroic level campaign, I'd suggest allowing DCs to grow over time... but to start off, suggest the multipower with powers simulating shockwaves, or tunneling powers, or martial block & throw, etc. Make the brick more varied... the player will likely see the fun in this, and even when you do lighten the DC cap, they will broaden the character, rather than pure power them.

 

Also, be clear that you have Damage Class caps... and not necessarily Active Point caps. There are 150 Active Point powers that have zero effect on game balance... and 40 Active Point powers (like Hand Attack or HKAs) which can completely unbalance combat.

 

Again, remember that DCs are important to watch, moreso than active points. Active points being high might indicate an issue... or it could just indicate a cool, big, techy power that really doesn't hurt the game.

 

Good luck

[Guest Witch Doctor]

Re: Balancing Brick DCs

 

You are worried about him spending exp to raise his DCs above the limit you are comfortable with?

Keep giving his adventures where DCs are nice, but don't solve all the problems. Give him a reason to desire to put those exp elsewhere.

[Blue]

Re: Balancing Brick DCs

 

I've got to say that the Strength tricks in THE ULTIMATE BRICK are a great addition to the game. I was reading the one last night about throwing things into orbit

 

My game has a cap on STR of 80, and I think most players recognize that they should boost other areas (In fact, the brick with the 80 STR has more frighteningly put his experience into SPD. He's an 8 SPD character with an 80 STR... There's not much more than that which I would fear, but he's not been overpowering so far).

 

I'd recommend he get skill levels, some grab type manuvers, or the great tricks out of TUB.

[Colossus]

Re: Balancing Brick DCs

 

Combat balance is an intersting thing.

 

I look at 5 factors

 

1. How much damage can a PC do (DC, special effectsd)

 

2. How likely is she to hit (Look at the OCV, any advantages)

 

3. How often can he attack (Speed, how long a PC can go all out without running out of END, charges)

 

4. How much damage can she take in return (Can the PC take as much as he can give)

 

5. How does this match the character concept (A Brick should do amazing amounts of damage, but hit less often than a Martial Arts.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Balancing Brick DCs

 

Combat balance is an intersting thing.

 

I look at 5 factors

 

1. How much damage can a PC do (DC, special effectsd)

 

2. How likely is she to hit (Look at the OCV, any advantages)

 

3. How often can he attack (Speed, how long a PC can go all out without running out of END, charges)

 

4. How much damage can she take in return (Can the PC take as much as he can give)

 

5. How does this match the character concept (A Brick should do amazing amounts of damage, but hit less often than a Martial Arts.

We use a guideline in our campaign of SPD + DC is less than or equal to 20, and it seems to balance the various characters pretty well. At this point none of our PCs have hit 20 with this formula (We have several at 19). As our characters are now quickly approaching 400 points, we're looking at eventually raising the number up to 22 or thereabouts.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Balancing Brick DCs

 

Metaphysician is spot on, here. If this is a true superheroic level campaign, I'd suggest allowing DCs to grow over time... but to start off, suggest the multipower with powers simulating shockwaves, or tunneling powers, or martial block & throw, etc. Make the brick more varied... the player will likely see the fun in this, and even when you do lighten the DC cap, they will broaden the character, rather than pure power them.

 

Also, be clear that you have Damage Class caps... and not necessarily Active Point caps. There are 150 Active Point powers that have zero effect on game balance... and 40 Active Point powers (like Hand Attack or HKAs) which can completely unbalance combat.

 

Again, remember that DCs are important to watch, moreso than active points. Active points being high might indicate an issue... or it could just indicate a cool, big, techy power that really doesn't hurt the game.

 

Good luck

 

Yeah, there are alot of power constructs that look hideous in terms of active points, but when you factor in the limitations, aren't so bad.

 

Basically, IMHO, there are two types of limited constructs.

 

The type wherein the limitations are put in to make an uber power affordable, and intended as things to circumvent.

 

The type wherein the limits ( and advantages ) are designed to describe a very specific effect, with the "limits" being not limits so much as aspects of the power.

 

One way to tell the difference: if you could conceive of the limit being bought off, its in the former category.