Please review this new advantage

[Agent333]

While rewriting some vampire powers I stumbled on a problem I need fixing. I need powers like Invisibility and Shapeshift to be effective to all who see the effects except for, say, one person chosen by the user of the power. I thought I might do this with a new advantage;

 

 

Selective Control (+1)

This advantage (used primarily on sense affecting powers like Invisibility, Shapeshift and Images) allows the player to use some or all of the abilities available in a power at anytime they choose, within the confines of the powers description and limitations. Also, the active or inactive components of the power can be sensed by all, some or one target able to perceive the powers effects.

 

(example: Teufel, the Nosferatu, makes his way through a crowded club shapeshifted as a handsome club-hopper dressed in leather. He spots Charles, a known Toreador, across the dance floor. On his next action, Teufel drops the Sight affecting portion of his Shapeshift, but only allows Charles to see his true form. He walks off with a chuckle at the sight of Charles’ horrified stare, everyone else in the club is oblivious to the hideous monster among them…)

 

 

What I need from you guys is whether you think this advantage is necessary for what I want (and, yes, bottom line cost is a factor). If it is, do you think it's priced correctly at +1. If not, are there other rules I can use to get the same (or better) effect. Please give me your input.

 

Many thanks!

[Agent X]

Re: Please review this new advantage

 

That advantage aint cheap and there seem to be two elements to it.

1) Shutting down part of a power or modifier to the power

2) Shutting down that part only for one person

 

I think it would probably be less expensive to have the character buy detect true form as sight usable against others.

 

Tangent: Are you ever at New World? (assuming you are in the OKC area)

[dbsousa]

Re: Please review this new advantage

 

I Think it is high. Selective on an area effect attack is only 1/4. I would go with a 1/2, if it required a skill roll of some sort. I might even allow this as something that could be done with a Power roll...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Please review this new advantage

 

I think dbsousa's in the game that this is comparable to Selective in the area effect advantages, which is effectively +1/4. Given that does make the power require a to hit roll, I'd be inclined to charge +1/4 if your character has to make some kind of to hit or skill roll to make this happen.

 

To continue the analysis related to area effect, a Selective AE could also be 1 herx area (Accurate or not) to make those various to hit rolls vs DCV 3 (so virtually automatic), which would cost another +1/2. Even if the selection is automatic, I wouldn't price the overall advantage greater than +3/4.

 

I don't see this having the same benefit as an "autohit" area effect power, however, in that the powers you want don't inflict damage and would generally effect all individuals in range automatically in any case. On a pure gut feel basis, I'm inclined to say +1/2 if it's automatic with no rolls, and +1/4 if it requires some kind of roll.

 

I'd alow it as a power skill "stunt" as well, with the standard caveat that using it more than once or twice means it should be purchased as a power.

[Zanthis]

Re: Please review this new advantage

 

You could also consider Personal Immunity to the Invis/Shapeshift as a Naked Advantage, Usable On Others.

[Col. Orange]

Re: Please review this new advantage

 

You could also consider Personal Immunity to the Invis/Shapeshift as a Naked Advantage' date=' Usable On Others.[/quote']

 

Perfect!

 

The example given reads as if it's Usable Against others though. But still, your solution is great.

[Col. Orange]

Re: Please review this new advantage

 

Agent333, do you have any more World of Darkness/Vampire stuff for HERO?

[Agent X]

Re: Please review this new advantage

 

Perfect!

 

The example given reads as if it's Usable Against others though. But still, your solution is great.

That is a good one. It's better than Detect True Form because the vamp probably should only be able to reveal himself.

[Agent333]

Re: Please review this new advantage

 

Wow, thanks guys! This is very helpful

 

Originally Posted by Zanthis

You could also consider Personal Immunity to the Invis/Shapeshift as a Naked Advantage, Usable On Others.

 

Okay... my Obfuscate is Invisibility to Sight, Hearing and Scent. Base cost = 26 points

 

0 END (+1/2), Does not work while attacking (-1/2), Extra Time: Delayed Phase (-1/4)

 

Real Cost = 22

 

Now, I want this new ability to be a "Power Stunt" of sorts that players may buy. So, add Personal Immunity as a naked advantage on 39 Active points = 9.75 (call it 10)

 

Usable as Attack, IIRC, is a +1 adavantage = 20 points.

 

Yikes! That practically has the player paying for the power all over again, in real costs. I don't think anyone will buy a power stunt for that much... bottom line cost being a factor. I like this approach, since it uses the rules in a new way, but it's really expensive for something that I think is a rather minor effect. If I'm missing something, please tell me.

 

With the advantage priced at +1 the real cost, after disadvantages, was still only 15 points. Pricey for something I think of as costing about equivalent to a ten point adder, but doable. Although, I am persuaded that +1/2 may be alot more reasonable for what I'm wanting. That would bring the real cost of the power stunt to about 7 or 8 points. Almost exactly what I had in mind.

 

What do you guys think?

 

originally from Agent X

Tangent: Are you ever at New World? (assuming you are in the OKC area)

 

Ah, I miss New World. Used to go there back in the summer of '97. Now, I'm in the Norman area five days a week (commute from home down in Maysville). Wizard's Asylum is a great place to get your comics and RPG stuff, just a couple blocks from OU campus corner on Jenkins. If you're going to be my way gimmie a hollar: myndovamadda@yahoo.com

 

originally from Col. Orange

Agent333, do you have any more World of Darkness/Vampire stuff for HERO?

 

Just ask Bob Harrison what a whore I am about pimping my web-site However, tripod has just informed me that I no longer have a site (been there for 8 years...) so, I'll direct you to Bob's stuff here

We borrow from each other so it's pretty close to what I have. Plus, Bob included the entire World of Darkness in his writeups, not just vampire and Werewolf like I did. Good stuff there.

 

Edit: wow, I managed to find my web-site after all. Tripod is being rather persnickity lately. Here it is:

http://members.tripod.com/~HRClark333/roleplaystuff.html

[Agent X]

Re: Please review this new advantage

 

Wow, thanks guys! This is very helpful

 

 

 

Okay... my Obfuscate is Invisibility to Sight, Hearing and Scent. Base cost = 26 points

 

0 END (+1/2), Does not work while attacking (-1/2), Extra Time: Delayed Phase (-1/4)

 

Real Cost = 22

 

Now, I want this new ability to be a "Power Stunt" of sorts that players may buy. So, add Personal Immunity as a naked advantage on 39 Active points = 9.75 (call it 10)

 

Usable as Attack, IIRC, is a +1 adavantage = 20 points.

 

Yikes! That practically has the player paying for the power all over again, in real costs. I don't think anyone will buy a power stunt for that much... bottom line cost being a factor. I like this approach, since it uses the rules in a new way, but it's really expensive for something that I think is a rather minor effect. If I'm missing something, please tell me.

 

With the advantage priced at +1 the real cost, after disadvantages, was still only 15 points. Pricey for something I think of as costing about equivalent to a ten point adder, but doable. Although, I am persuaded that +1/2 may be alot more reasonable for what I'm wanting. That would bring the real cost of the power stunt to about 7 or 8 points. Almost exactly what I had in mind.

 

What do you guys think?

 

 

 

Ah, I miss New World. Used to go there back in the summer of '97. Now, I'm in the Norman area five days a week (commute from home down in Maysville). Wizard's Asylum is a great place to get your comics and RPG stuff, just a couple blocks from OU campus corner on Jenkins. If you're going to be my way gimmie a hollar: myndovamadda@yahoo.com

 

 

 

Just ask Bob Harrison what a whore I am about pimping my web-site However, tripod has just informed me that I no longer have a site (been there for 8 years...) so, I'll direct you to Bob's stuff here

We borrow from each other so it's pretty close to what I have. Plus, Bob included the entire World of Darkness in his writeups, not just vampire and Werewolf like I did. Good stuff there.

Hey, if I head down to Norman I'll give you "fair warning."

 

The personal immunity doesn't have to be a "truly" naked advantage if it's usable on others. Buy Personal Immunity on the power as usual. Buy an adder equal to the cost of a +1 advantage on just the Personal Immunity to reflect the ability to use personal immunity on others and have a good time.

 

Should look like: [26] Base Cost + [6.5] 1/4 Personal Immunity + [6.5] Adder or + [13] zero endurance.

 

If you treat the UAO as an adder that will have to be factored into zero endurance.

 

As adder: 57/by limitation cost to 33 Real Cost so it costs you 11 points.

[Zanthis]

Re: Please review this new advantage

 

Okay... my Obfuscate is Invisibility to Sight, Hearing and Scent. Base cost = 26 points

 

0 END (+1/2), Does not work while attacking (-1/2), Extra Time: Delayed Phase (-1/4)

 

Real Cost = 22

After this the math broke down I believe . The Naked Advantage Personal Immunity will only cost 6.5 base points rounded to 6 (the +1/4 applies to the base cost of the power it affects, not the active point cost). Think of it this way. Make your Obuscate with Personal Immunity and without. Figure out the difference in points, and that difference is the cost of the naked advantage.

 

Next, you need Usable as Attack(+1), At Range(+1/2) for a total Active Point and Real Cost of 15 points and 1 endurance/phase.

 

Let's add a few limitations: Extra Time: 1 Segement (-1/2), x2 END (-1/2). That brings the real cost down to 7 points and the endurance cost to 3/phase.

 

Other limitations could be: Non-combat only, only verse normals, not verses target with higher point total, or even requires skill roll.

[Agent X]

Re: Please review this new advantage

 

After this the math broke down I believe . The Naked Advantage Personal Immunity will only cost 6.5 base points rounded to 6 (the +1/4 applies to the base cost of the power it affects, not the active point cost). Think of it this way. Make your Obuscate with Personal Immunity and without. Figure out the difference in points, and that difference is the cost of the naked advantage.

 

Next, you need Usable as Attack(+1), At Range(+1/2) for a total Active Point and Real Cost of 15 points and 1 endurance/phase.

 

Let's add a few limitations: Extra Time: 1 Segement (-1/2), x2 END (-1/2). That brings the real cost down to 7 points and the endurance cost to 3/phase.

 

Other limitations could be: Non-combat only, only verse normals, not verses target with higher point total, or even requires skill roll.

Good points.

[Agent333]

Re: Please review this new advantage

 

Okay, so the Personal Immunity is applied to Invisibility before the 0 END (+1/2), got it (I get married to active point costs rather easily, as you can see.).

 

So, lemmie try again: 26 Base points, Personal Immunity (+1/4) gives me 6.5. Usable as Attack (+1) and At Range (+1/2) on the 6.5 gives me 15. Okay, I'll stop there and say "Nice one" That looks good to me.

 

However, I still need to do a bit of GM handwaving to get it to work how I wanted (though, I suppose making ones own Advantage is a bit of handwaving as well ). Such as the player making an attack roll to use the personal immunity on another or using the personal immunity on some, but not all, targets in the area (Selective AE I would presume). Then there's the possible argument about whether you can be only partially immune to a power when affected by Personal Immunity.

 

The more I look at it, the more I'm leaning towards the home-brewed advantage. It would seem that a well described advantage would subvert a lot more arguments than an unconventional stacking of advantages. I'm just not sure yet.

 

And again, thanks you guys!

[Agent X]

Re: Please review this new advantage

 

Okay, so the Personal Immunity is applied to Invisibility before the 0 END (+1/2), got it (I get married to active point costs rather easily, as you can see.).

 

So, lemmie try again: 26 Base points, Personal Immunity (+1/4) gives me 6.5. Usable as Attack (+1) and At Range (+1/2) on the 6.5 gives me 15. Okay, I'll stop there and say "Nice one" That looks good to me.

 

However, I still need to do a bit of GM handwaving to get it to work how I wanted (though, I suppose making ones own Advantage is a bit of handwaving as well ). Such as the player making an attack roll to use the personal immunity on another or using the personal immunity on some, but not all, targets in the area (Selective AE I would presume). Then there's the possible argument about whether you can be only partially immune to a power when affected by Personal Immunity.

 

The more I look at it, the more I'm leaning towards the home-brewed advantage. It would seem that a well described advantage would subvert a lot more arguments than an unconventional stacking of advantages. I'm just not sure yet.

 

And again, thanks you guys!

If you do go for a home-brewed advantage consider a term that doesn't get confused with previous rules terminology like... Reveal to Other +1/4 advantage, Reveal to Others +1/2 advantage... something like that.

[Agent333]

Re: Please review this new advantage

 

If you do go for a home-brewed advantage consider a term that doesn't get confused with previous rules terminology like... Reveal to Other +1/4 advantage' date=' Reveal to Others +1/2 advantage... something like that.[/quote']

 

I think you just wrote it right then. I actually like those values for the two different ways to use it (vs. one or vs. some).

[Guest Kolava]

Re: Please review this new advantage

 

Combine Reveal to Others and Usable by Others, and you can make your entire group invisible to everyone else.

[Agent333]

Re: Please review this new advantage

 

From Kolava

Combine Reveal to Others and Usable by Others, and you can make your entire group invisible to everyone else.

 

Well, I kind of did already, 5th level Obfuscate:

 

Cloak the Gathering

Add to Unseen Presence: Usable by eight others simultaneously with caster (+1½), Persistent (+1/2), Extra Time: Full Turn, can do nothing else (-1¾), Concentrate: 0 DCV (-1/2), Single Activation +2 [13-] (-1/4)

& Major Transform 3D6 (change object or portal into same object only invisible. Invisibility is dispelled by others actively searching for object with a Perception roll -5); Limited Target: Inanimate objects of 3,200 Kg of mass or less or portals/doors (-1/2), Extra Time: Full Turn (-1¼), Concentrate: ½ DCV (-1/4)

Cost: 16

 

 

I'm not sure how much an Extra Time, Can Do Noting Else is worth, but I'm assuming it's an additional -1/2 (someone set me straight). And I'm using a heretofore unheard of form of Activation usable for constant powers. Single Activation means the Activation roll is only made when the power is first turned on and is worth 1/2 less limitation.