Enforcer84 Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 When I regularly paid attention to the DC heroes/MEGS mailing list there used to be spirited debates on martial artists, who was the best. Since MEGS used an AP system you could show the superior martial artist by giving them a higher Martial Arts skill (Batman a 9, Richard Dragon a 12, etc...). This didn't necensarily take into account "Super-Martial Artists" (a la Wonderwoman, Karate Kid, etc.), or really high Dex characters (Spiderman), but could help come to a conclusion. How do think I could accomplish a similar ranking with HERO? Is it possible? I mean if I looked at two Martial Arts Characters, Say Green Dragon and Nighthawk, I can say that I think GD is the better martial artist, he's dedicated more total points to his martial arts (manuevers, dc's, and csl's) is that it? I try not to use DEX and SPD in my "rankings" but I might add Lightnin reflexes? perhaps a Max CV + Max DC + Number of Maneauvers = Martial Arts "Rank"? I know this is boardering on silly, but I love statistics and finding out who is the Ranking "best" martial artist would be something I'd dig. And for curiosity, who do you think is the best Martial artist in the CU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proditor Posted July 18, 2004 Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Re: In this issue of Millennium City Full Contact... Current CU? Hurm....I'll have to ponder that a bit. Some of the top runners seem to be Fiacho, Cheshire, Shadowdragon, Green Dragon, Nighthawk, Shugoshin and the so far unstated Nightwind (Yengtao baby). 4th Ed? Either Andreas Pantatholos or...shoot...that guy from Watchers of the Dragon who was like 900 points and had the massive VPP for MA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2004 Re: In this issue of Millennium City Full Contact... Nightwind is stated in Millennium City I believe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proditor Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Re: In this issue of Millennium City Full Contact... Darn...like the one book I didn't get in my massive post E-bay selling off old RPG's and then buying 5e stuff frenzy. Was he any good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Re: In this issue of Millennium City Full Contact... yes he is quite skilled, his martial arts is represented by some non attack maneuvers and then a Multipower for the strikes and grabs I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Re: In this issue of Millennium City Full Contact... Why not use dex and speed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Re: In this issue of Millennium City Full Contact... umm arbitrary cussedness? I don't know, it seems so very cheap. I mean having superhuman stats can be a by product of intense martial arts training and skill, but it's also possible to simply be an inhumanly fast and agile guy with martial arts. True, this isn't a forms competition, its a fight... I don't really have a formula so...I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Re: In this issue of Millennium City Full Contact... If I had two martial artists: #1 has Str 20, Dex 26, and Spd 6, All Kung Fu maneauvers, +2 DC's and 3 CSL's with Kung fu #2 has STR 15, Dex 20, and SPD 5, All Kung Fu Maneuavers, +3 DC's, +3 Lightning Reflexes, and + 6 CSL's with Kung Fu... Who would rank higher? I suppose if they fought, the guy with the extra SPD would have an advantage, but the other guy has slightly more damaging special manuevers, and a higher max CV (using levels) I kind of think that the second guy is a better "Martial Artist" if not fighter.... I don't know. I was using CV to give the high DEX guys a leg up there. All very stream of consciousness I guess, sorry guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Re: In this issue of Millennium City Full Contact... Well, it just seems to me that martial artists spend an awful lot of time conditioning their bodies to improve their dexterity and speed. Maybe, you need to set up a superhuman and non-superhuman class system for the purposes of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Re: In this issue of Millennium City Full Contact... True...True...Lousy superhumans...grumble... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Re: In this issue of Millennium City Full Contact... It shouldn't be hard to separate "human" and "superhuman" combatants for purposes of ranking. Just use the human characteristic maxima listed in Champions or Champions Universe; these aren't NCM, but the maximum that any human being can attain without some kind of enhancement. Any characteristic beyond that limit would by definition be "superhuman." There are a couple of statistical methods currently set up for comparing the combat effectiveness of HERO characters. Since that seems to be the implication of your "best martial artist" ranking, those methods should be suitable. The most detailed and comprehensive is the "Effectiveness Rating" described in Digital Hero #3. There's a spreadsheet in the "Free Stuff" part of the website that helps you calculate it, but you'll still need that issue for the details. OTOH you could run your characters through nyakki's Combat Rating System program, derived from formulas from an old Adventurers Club issue. It's fairly detailed but pretty straightforward, not to mention fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharxboy Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Re: In this issue of Millennium City Full Contact... Concerning your example martial artist, I think it stacks up like this... #1 is more gifted naturally #2 Does more with what he's got Much like atheletes. It seems that #2 has trained much more and would be farther along the path in martial arts "knowledge". If they were to fight the results could come out even or favorable in either direction. I think that looking at it the same way we do sports, one could say that #1 never lived up to his potential, even if he defeated #2 consistantly. I would think that #2 would be a much more sought after teacher and young fighters would tend to emulate and admire him more. Adding a storyline of sorts, #1 may be viewed in the same light as say Barry Bonds in baseball, clearly a top 3 player, but people resent him because he doesn't seem to work as hard as other players. People love an underdog. EJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted July 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 Re: In this issue of Millennium City Full Contact... Good points both LL and Sharxboy. I might use the Cobat effectiveness table....buwahahaha now I can prove that Gum Boy is the greatest amrtial artist the CU has ever known! What's that? He came in last? Oh well, there's always next year GB... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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