Non-standard mythologies

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Non-standard mythologies

 

With Steve's statement that Tezcatlipoca will be playing a major role in the upcoming Arcane Adversaries, I'm ecstatic. I can finally put all my knowledge of Aztec mythology to use.

 

And I stil do think that American mythology -- not just the varied native tribes and nations, but the lore of the whites, blacks, etc. -- is shamefully underused. Like the Joe Magarac ref above; there's simply TONS of good material begging to be used. Ken Hite covered this once in a Suppressed Transmissions article about Paul Bunyan and oodles of other American working-class heroes (including one guy I've never heard of, Stanley Owlswick III, the World's Greatest LSD Chemist; I'm guessing he's from the 60's). Really, aside from DC's Steel (who was based loosely on John Henry), has anyone ever seen any of this material used?

 

And would a 'mythic America' exist in the CU Land of Legends? You know, Paul Bunyan's woods right next to Big Rock Candy Mountain with Big Mose's Bowery just down the road...

[SleepyDrug]

Re: Non-standard mythologies

 

Versions of the greek and norse abound, but they are easy to identify.

 

Major personality traits, rough powers/abilities, and spheres of influence of the Greek or Norse gods are easy to find.

 

Making sense of the names and spheres of influence of...the egyptian gods is harder. Horus, Ra, Amon-Ra, and Helieos are all gods of the sun.

 

This is why you see less egyptian gods.

[Lightray]

Re: Non-standard mythologies

 

Versions of the greek and norse abound, but they are easy to identify.

 

Major personality traits, rough powers/abilities, and spheres of influence of the Greek or Norse gods are easy to find.

 

Making sense of the names and spheres of influence of...the egyptian gods is harder. Horus, Ra, Amon-Ra, and Helieos are all gods of the sun.

 

This is why you see less egyptian gods.

That's because people are trying to compress ~5000 years or so of Egyptian mythology into one unified pantheon.

 

The "Classical Greece" and Viking eras that are being used as mythological sources are, what, a few 100s of years long? And even in that period we can see evidence that the mythology had changed or was changing.

 

When I use the Egyptian pantheon, I tend to use the "Ra was the old sun god, but was succeeded in his senescence by Horus, who became Horus-Re" route.

[urbwar]

Re: Non-standard mythologies

 

There was a sourcebook appropriately titled "The Olympians" which used this concept also' date=' though they were actually alien, cosmic energy beings. That, and 400 points was the mid to low end. [/quote']

 

The Olympians sourcebook is the real Greek Gods. The alien beings who posed as the various gods were in Alien Enemies (they were called The Pantheon); it even references how they interact with the Olympians if you use them in your game. They also first appeared to the Romans, and thus use the Roman names (Jupiter, Neptune, etc)

 

Their origin is very similar to Helios from The Protectors, but Alien Enemies doesn't mention him at all, which I always found weird. I always felt his symbiote was of the same species as the others, and it would have been an interesting hook to tie him into that group.

 

In an old game of mine, I actually used some of the gods of Chaos from Michael Moorcock's work. Basically Arioch and a few others were trying to spread Chaos into my campaign's universe, and the pc's tried to stop them. Thankfully, they prevailed, and drove them back to their own dimension.

[Kirby]

Re: Non-standard mythologies

 

The Olympians sourcebook is the real Greek Gods.

Not according to The Olympians they aren't real gods. The book states "[T]he Greek 'gods' are not actually divine beings. They are simply fictional extra-dimensional life forms with extraordinary abilities." (p. 3)

 

Now, if you're saying that the beings in the book are what the myths are supposed to be based on, yes, but they are listed as aliens, not divine beings.

 

They also first appeared to the Romans' date=' and thus use the Roman names (Jupiter, Neptune, etc)[/quote']

By "they" do you mean the Olympians, or the Pantheon? I'm going to guess the latter since The Olympians states "Although the Romans never actually encountered the Olympians, they did imitate the Greeks and adopted the worship of the absent gods. However, the Romans never had personal interaction with the gods, and this accounts for the Roman view of the gods as more idealized and less human." (p. 5)

[urbwar]

Re: Non-standard mythologies

 

Not according to The Olympians they aren't real gods. The book states "[T]he Greek 'gods' are not actually divine beings. They are simply fictional extra-dimensional life forms with extraordinary abilities." (p. 3)

 

Now, if you're saying that the beings in the book are what the myths are supposed to be based on, yes, but they are listed as aliens, not divine beings.

 

I didn't have my copy of The Olympians with me, but in the campaign use section on the Pantheon, it states:

 

"Finally, if he is using the actual Greek Gods in his campaign (as presented in The Olympians), then the GM should decide how the two groups interact. It is entirely possible that Zeus and his brethren will be angered by the alien mimics. Perhaps the PCs will have to avert a divine war!"

 

That's why I stated that they were gods. Guess the info in Alien Enemies was wrong (which will teach me not to double check before posting)

 

By "they" do you mean the Olympians, or the Pantheon? I'm going to guess the latter since The Olympians states "Although the Romans never actually encountered the Olympians, they did imitate the Greeks and adopted the worship of the absent gods. However, the Romans never had personal interaction with the gods, and this accounts for the Roman view of the gods as more idealized and less human." (p. 5)

 

Yes, I was talking about The Pantheon. Sorry for not being clearer on that point. The Pantheon's arrival likely came after The Olympians cut themselves off from Earth to fight the Titans (though again, I don't have Olympians in front of me to see when they cut themselves off; The Pantheon arrive around 100 B.C.)

[Kirby]

Re: Non-standard mythologies

 

That' date=' and 400 points was the mid to low end. [/quote']

Going back to my book, the primary fourteen beings listed average about 783 points, with the low being 497.

They are:

(Deity - Points)

Zeus - 1110

Hera - 722

Aphrodite - 611

Apollo - 897

Aries - 721

Artemis - 793

Athena - 715

Demeter - 754

Dionysus - 720

Hephaestus - 637

Hermes - 810

Poseidon - 986

Hades - 992

Charon - 497

 

They list lots of other "deities & demigods" as well as heroes, villains and beasts, but most major characters don't have their points listed, just a compacted character sheet with little to no numbers. Circe is 375 points though.

[Kirby]

Re: Non-standard mythologies

 

"Finally' date=' if he is using the [i']actual[/i] Greek Gods in his campaign (as presented in The Olympians), then the GM should decide how the two groups interact. It is entirely possible that Zeus and his brethren will be angered by the alien mimics. Perhaps the PCs will have to avert a divine war!"

 

That's why I stated that they were gods. Guess the info in Alien Enemies was wrong.

Well, I can see it meaning that the aliens in The Olympians were the "true source" for the Greek myths and thus the true "gods" that way, while the Pantheon is the imitation league.

 

Yes' date=' I was talking about The Pantheon. Sorry for not being clearer on that point. The Pantheon's arrival likely came after The Olympians cut themselves off from Earth to fight the Titans (though again, I don't have Olympians in front of me to see when they cut themselves off; The Pantheon arrive around 100 B.C.)[/quote']

It doesn't state the time in the book, though it seems to imply right before the Romans invaded (due to the Titan fighting). "The Greeks were perplexed by the gods' sudden departure. Even this seemed less important when the Romans invaded and conquered all the Greek city-states." I don't know off-hand when this happened, and I'd have to look it up, but I believe it was prior to 100 B.C.

 

But like you, I treat the Olympians as the true Greek gods. I just wish I had the Aliens book.

[urbwar]

Re: Non-standard mythologies

 

Going back to my book, the primary fourteen beings listed average about 783 points, with the low being 497.

 

That's much more powerful than the members of the Pantheon. They all come in under 350 points:

 

Jupiter- 327

Neptune- 291

Mars- 331

Luna- 297

Mercury- 259

Bacchus- 170

 

They'd likely get creamed by The Olympians if it ever came down to a fight

[FenrisUlf]

Re: Non-standard mythologies

 

Something to add here: when people say that the Norse mythos lacked the confusion over divine roles you find in some other pantheons, that's not quite true. Mythologists and archaeologists have found quite a bit of evidence that Odin was 'king of the Aesir' in just one cult (that was the favorite among the rulers and poets, so he got all the good press). Other sources listed Tyr, Freyr, and Thor as divine kings. You can read all about this in Hilda R. Ellis-Davidsons' books.

 

And what about new uses for 'traditional' gods? Like making Set a good guy.

He was originally the defender of Ra's solar boat, and while always brutish, didn't become 'evil' until the Hyksos invaded. To me, the odd turnabout does the players and their characters some good: not /everything/ is what you think it is. And I guess I've always had a warm spot for Set, seeing as how he lives in Pennsylvania these days.

[Mister E]

Re: Non-standard mythologies

 

Just a quick note, I often take mythologies and horribly mutate them. Under the theory that oral history and legends do not equal true history.

 

Examples from my campaign:

~Babylonian Pantheon were founded by a dragon. Dragon was sent to Earth to create and protect human civilization.

~Greek Pantheon was founded by Kronos/Saturn, who was a PC time traveller. This opens up the whole paradox situation. Give Hercules a spaceship, so he can chase after Minos and the Zodiac.

~Odin was a cyborg, abducted 20,000 years ago by aliens. He keeps one eye always covered, as the aliens put a camera in it...

~Titans (greek Mythology) factor in big. They are basicly immortal guardians of the earth, trained by aliens to act something like the Peace Corps. They are master manipulators, behind many historical events.

~Egyptian pantheon is my players favorite. Combine Egyptian Pantheon with old Thundercats cartoon. Mix in blender, spew out result. Surprisingly very workable, for players to encounter when time-travelling or flashbacks. Not very workable in modern day...

 

This strategy works well if you have players raised on D&D mythology.

 

I think Ghost Who Walks is totally on for what a comic book mythos should be like. You need to mix it up, and bounce around a little of the super-bizarre rubber-science. I've recently been doing a lot of research into coming up with a common amalgamated cosmology for my game, where the differences in the heroes and deities from normally estranged mythologies, is not inherently apparent.

 

When you throw in the reality warping possibilities of time travel, and alternate dimentions, Ramayana, the Avatar of Vishnu from Hindu myth, could very easily be a super powered trick-archer, named "Golden Pheonix", who fights along with the Cuchulainn-like "Blue Fury" against the cosmic villain "Psychromatron", a sentient synthetic astral contruct that's taken up base on the far side of the moon, and is stylized after Questzalcoatl, and has kidnapped Golden Peonix's girlfriend, "Sita", in order to blackmail him into waging war on the Planet of the Apes, where Hanuman, a titanic grower, is the reigning superhero.

 

I love this kind of stuff. It's what it's all about for me.

[Mister E]

Re: Non-standard mythologies

 

Another thing to consider, is the fact that mythologies that on the surface appear to be unique and distinct, can really be quite integrated. For instance, take Odin, Hermes, and Thoth. They don't resemble each other at all, but in many ways, as the different cultures encountered one another, these gods took on similar aspects, and merged into one unified mythic consciousness.

 

When Odin went down into Hel to petition for Balder's life, He was referred to as "Hermod", which is like a contraction of "Hermes" and "Odin", Hermes being the transporter of souls to the underworld. Thoth was also identified with Hermes, and the Greeks called him "Hermes Trismegistris" or "Thrice-Great Hermes". The Book of Thoth, writen by Thoth, who was the inventor of magic, is called the Hermetica by the Greeks, and might be where the assossiation between Hermes and magic comes from. Odin, in that respects, is like-wise very similar with his runes, prophetic visions, and knowledge of the Mimir.

 

In my campaign, I'm designing an NPC called the "Tri-Majestrix", who is going to represent an upper bench-mark for mystical power and knowledge, and is loosely based on Odin, Thoth, and Hermes. He was born a man, tens of thousands of years ago, in an age beyond that of prehistory, and was a genius of unique stature, even on the temporal expanse of eons, which allowed him to craft the fabric of Earth's magical nature wholesale out of nothingness with his will. In this respect, the Tri-Majestrix takes on the aspect of a cosmic demi-god, bound to Earth. He lives all alone in the lost city of Hermopolis on the far side of the Moon, which is the last remains of an ancient eldar star race of pyramid shaped giants called the Mimir. When he found the empty city, he discovered an artifact called the Mimir Matrix, which is a kind of intellegence booster that awakens the finite mind to the grandness of infinite realitiy. He now exists on the boundry between "here" and "there", the Universe and the Abyss.

 

Anyhow, you get my drift.

[Ghost who Walks]

Re: Non-standard mythologies

 

And what about new uses for 'traditional' gods? Like making Set a good guy. He was originally the defender of Ra's solar boat' date=' and while always brutish, didn't become 'evil' until the Hyksos invaded. To me, the odd turnabout does the players and their characters some good: not /everything/ is what you think it is. And I guess I've always had a warm spot for Set, seeing as how he lives in Pennsylvania these days. [/quote']

I like Set also. The way I did him was he was basicly a revolutionary, against the older gods (elder worms, Cthulthu, whatever), and defeated them.

 

Afterwards, he tried to build a multicultural and multiracial society (insert tower of Babel myth). Unfortunately, he fell victim to his own creation, the sentient golem Osiris (play Frankenstein music). Despite being inhuman, Osiris believed that those with powers should set themselves above normal humans. War resulted between the two, and Osiris was eventually murdered by Set, who disassembled his own creation.

 

Unfortunately, Osiris had married the goddess Isis, who sought revenge against Set. Allying with other gods, she managed to have him banished for centuries to a pocket dimension, where only through sheer will power did he surive.

 

Recently rescued by fellow Egyptian god Anhur, Set secretly works in the rare books collection of the New York public library. Superheroes are advised to conduct their battles with their villainous counterparts elsewhere. He can't understand any of these cults which have arisen about him, and tries often to "set the record straight".

 

I also agree that Egyptian mythology is very difficult, even a casual obesrvations will reveal they had thousands of gods. It's almost like they were being made somewhere, or there was some kind of rapid change in evolution going on (hint, hint).

 

The other fun thing to do with gods/mythology, is to try and place them at the scene of historcial events. Then have your characters do some time traveling. Fun ones I've run before include:

 

Fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Empire. Greek civilization will vanish for four centuries after this event. In the chronology I did, the Greek pantheon, in a rare moment of cooperation, evacuated a large part of the population by magic. (in histroy they were masssacred, so its not that big a divergence)

 

Cortez versus the Aztecs: Arguing what kind of person the conquistadors were isn't necessary. What is interesting is that the tribes of central mexico believed their gods were real, and would intervene on their behalf. Who is to sya they didn't, and were opposed by the gods travelling with Cortez, some of them converted to Christianity? Imagine Ares the christian.