XP for Disadvantages [Long]

[cutsleeve]

This Post is gonna be a bit long

If this Post intrudes on any intelectual property then please kill it swiftly. I mainly did it as an intelectual excersise and wanted to know what people thought of it.

 

the thread http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20815 introduced by arcady intorduced the idea that the disadvantages can be made to give xp if the characters roleplay them.

 

This is just a thought i had at revamping them so they could and work well in the system.

Disadvantages would still perform normally giving characters more points for building their characters at the cost of limits placed on him.

Xp will be given out this way 1 pt. for being in the adventure and 1 extra point if the encounter was very difficult. The rest of the characters xp will be determined by what disadvantages come into play and are dealt with by the player.

 

For Accidental Change, Berserk, Psychological Limitation, Susceptibility, and Vulnerability.

Circumstance/Situation/Condition/Attack

Uncommon 1/2

Common 1

Very Common 1 1/2

For Dependents, Berserk, Hunted, Physical Limitation, Social Limitation, and Reputation

Appearance/Chance to become Enraged/Circumstance Occurs/Recognized

All Rolls at -8 1/2

All Rolls at -11 1

All Rolls at -14 1 1/2

Accidental change uses this factor

Infrequent -8 0

Frequent -11 1/2

Very Frequent -14 1

Always 1 1/2

 

Special Units

Age

Age gets a flat XP bonus per adventure

40+ 1

60+ 2

10- 3

Dependence

Substance Is

Very Common ½

Common 1

Uncommon 2

Damage

Each 1D6 ½

-14 activation roll ½

-11 activation roll 1

Incompetence ½

Weakness ½

Time

Segment 2 ½

-1/2 subtracted from the XP benefit per adjustment up to a longer period on the time chart going into negatives

Addiction ½

Dependants

Incompetent 1

Normal ½

Less Powerful 0

As Powerful -1/2

Dnpc is useful in noncombat -1/2

Dnpc is unaware of characters career/identity ½

Group Dnpc ½ per x2 dnpc’s

Distinctive Feature

Concealability

Easily Concealable ½

Concealable 1

Not Concealable 1 ½

Reaction

Noticed and recognized 0

Always Noticed ½

Extreme Reaction 1

Sensing

Common Senses 0

Uncommon Senses -1/2

Unusual Senses -1

Non Cultural Distinction -1/2

Berserk

Chance to Recover[/i}

-14 0

-11 -1/2

-8 -1

Hunted

Capabilities

Less Powerful 1/2

As Powerful 1

More Powerful 1 ½

Non Combat Influence ½

Limited to Geographical Area –1/2

Pc Easy to Find ½

Motivation

Watched -1

Mild Punishment -1/2

Harsh Punishment 0

Physical Limitation

Impairs

Slightly 0

Greatly ½

Fully 1

Psychological Limitation

Intensity

Moderate 0

Strong ½

Total 1

Reputation

Extreme Reputation ½

Known to a Limited Group -1/2

Rivalry

Situation

Professional or Romantic ½

Both 1

Rivals Authority

Less Powerful -1/2

More Powerful ½

Significantly More Powerful 1

PC Rival ½

Fierceness

Outdo 0

Harm ½

Knowledge

Unaware -1/2

Aware 0

Social Limitation

Effects Of Restrictions

Minor 0

Major ½

Severe 1

Not Limiting in Some Cultures ½

Susceptibility

Take Damage Every

Instant 0

Segment 1 ½

-1/2 per step up in time on the time chart going into negatives

Damage

1D6 0

+1/2 for every added 1D6 beyond the first

Unluck

½ XP for every 1D6 of Unluck

Vulnerability

Multiplier

x1 ½ 0

x2 x2

 

If after XP is awarded for appearance of disadvantages total up the XP you have received including ½’s as they stand then if there is a ½ left over after you have totaled them up Round it up to 1

Example

Joe gets 2 +1 ½ + 2 ½ + 1 + ½ as experience for some of his disadvantages comeing into play and dealing with them [b} to the Gm’s satisfaction[/b] he would end up with 7 ½ XP rounded up he now has 8 XP on top of the 1 he gained from being in the Adventure.

 

Hope this seems ok I did it with a lil lack of sleep.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: XP for Disadvantages [Long]

 

Seems to me this rewards common disadvantages twice. If I have a 14- roll, my disadvantage will show up more often, and I'll get more bonus XP each time it shows up. Plus I got more points for it in the first place.

 

I'm sure this will skew disadvantage choices. For example, I'd much rather have a hunted who is much weaker than me and shows up on a 14- than one who is stronger and shows up on an 8-. The former will get me more bonus xp, opbtain it more often and be easier to deal with in-game. "Enraged when takes STUN 14-" seems like a great choice too.

 

An 8 year old prodigy in powered armor (which allows me to buy increased stats as a power) seems like a character who will grow very quickly with 3 bonus xp just for showing up. Maybe I'll build it as a vehicle with a computer - Junior will just tell it what to do. And if I'm accepting NCM anyway, may as well tack Age on.

 

Ugly characters will grow fast - how often are "always noticed" distinctive features NOT noticed?

 

Why no points for some disadvantages? Expect not to see those any more. And don't expect long-term dependence or Susceptibilities - I might never get any xp!

 

You'll be awarding a lot of xp every session, so expect some fast-growing characters. Certain concepts will naturally gain xp faster than others, as well. Uncommon Disad's pay less xp when they happen, and happen less frequently, so I'll be looking for big poiint disad's for my characters - no small ones that add flavour to the character, no matter how appropriate.

[tesuji]

Re: XP for Disadvantages [Long]

 

My thoughts: Make it much simpler. Base it on the degree of harsship the character suffered from his disadvantages during the session.

 

Minor 1 pt: disadvantages provided a minor but notable distraction

Major 2 pts: disadvantage provided a major impediment to character performance during the session

Critical 3 pts: disadvantage was mostly disabling the character during the session.

 

A minor disad would be one that occupied the characters action non-combat or might have cost him an action or two in combat.

 

A major disad would provide long term problems out of combat (cause contact troubles or drain enough money as to limit the character for a while, get him kicked out of his apt, suspended at worketc.) or in combat cost the character aboiut half his actions in the fight.

 

A critical disad would casue serious life-wreckage out of combat (lose job, wanted as criminal suspect, etc) or in combat would mostly remove him from the fight by early KO or other events he has to handle like rushing injured sister to hospital.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: XP for Disadvantages [Long]

 

My thoughts: Make it much simpler. Base it on the degree of harsship the character suffered from his disadvantages during the session.

 

Minor 1 pt: disadvantages provided a minor but notable distraction

Major 2 pts: disadvantage provided a major impediment to character performance during the session

Critical 3 pts: disadvantage was mostly disabling the character during the session.

 

I like this approach much better. Basing it on disadvantages in total, not each disadvantage, levels the playing field and flattens out the xp curve a bit. One minor quibble: I would base the severity on the potential implications of the disadvantage in that particular session, and consider adding +1 for a good/creative role playing solution.

 

Although I'm still of the opinion that this should tie less to disadvantages and more to character role playing in general (don't most characters have some "disadvantages" that aren't on the character sheet?)

[cutsleeve]

Re: XP for Disadvantages [Long]

 

Good Point Good Point Seeee this will teach me work on anything at 3 am in the morning cuz i didnt see that when i wrote it up.

 

When i was first writing it up i was debating whether some disadvantages could just be for character building and some for XP Age was going to be just for character building along with unluck, dependance, and distinctive feature. I thought people would comeplain why cant i get xp for them too

 

What if you removed the Instanced part of the XP adjustment from this method you know this bit

For Dependents, Berserk, Hunted, Physical Limitation, Social Limitation, and Reputation

Appearance/Chance to become Enraged/Circumstance Occurs/Recognized

All Rolls at -8 1/2

All Rolls at -11 1

All Rolls at -14 1 1/2

Accidental change uses this factor

Infrequent -8 0

Frequent -11 1/2

Very Frequent -14 1

Always 1 1/2

nix it and just use the rest of the stuff so it just measure the severity of the disadvantage. While also removing age, unluck,dependence, distinctive feature, and ncm. Using them only as character building disadvantages

 

Still wouldnt solve people from building for XP hmmmmmmm i guess youlld have to smack them around like when they try munchkining for character building.

[ghost-angel]

Re: XP for Disadvantages [Long]

 

I definitely think Tesuji's approach is not only better but encourages roleplaying over rollplaying.

 

If you reward based on Disad frequency and severity you'll end up with people tooling those to gain XP... and it discourages building rounded characters.

 

I know I have placed Disads on characters that show up rarely at best but round out the character more completely.

 

And as Hugh pointed out good roleplaying will bring out disadvantages not on the character sheet. And what about those players who do take extra Disads for 0 points because they feel it adds to the character?

 

I like to encourage roleplaying as much as possible - rewarding experience based on disads usage/appearance seems to defeat that intent.

[tesuji]

Re: XP for Disadvantages [Long]

 

And as Hugh pointed out good roleplaying will bring out disadvantages not on the character sheet. And what about those players who do take extra Disads for 0 points because they feel it adds to the character?

 

I did not say it above but, if you use the model of "take 350 pts and then choose disads as appropriate" you get away from the whole concept of zero pt disads. A character can, in theory" list as many disads as he sees as part of the character, and run with them all. After all, the only time he will "reap benefit" is after the disad bites him.

 

Also, as Gm, if a character did not list disadvantages, that would be fine too because i would have no problem giving him Xp for "reasonable problems" along the same lines when the plot line reaches up and smacks him a good one. You could imagine this as giving all my players a "MYSTERY DISAD" thats kind of floating to serve plot needs.

 

In fact, in all but the last champions game i ran (it was shared world co-gm thing so i was not "in charge"... last time i try that!) i always told my players to put a 15 pt disad on their sheet named "Steve is my GM" to prepare them for the inevitable impacts the plots would have.

 

:-)

[arcady]

Re: XP for Disadvantages [Long]

 

I'd stick with what I had in the original thread - given a simple point for bringing them out in play, and penalizes for '[meta]gaming' to keep them from being in play.

 

I don't want to give more than a point for it, or take more than a point, because I want other factors to be involved in XP as well, and don't want to be giving out more than 3 XP on average.

[Black Rose]

Re: XP for Disadvantages [Long]

 

I definitely think Tesuji's approach is not only better but encourages roleplaying over rollplaying.

 

If you reward based on Disad frequency and severity you'll end up with people tooling those to gain XP... and it discourages building rounded characters.

 

I know I have placed Disads on characters that show up rarely at best but round out the character more completely.

 

And as Hugh pointed out good roleplaying will bring out disadvantages not on the character sheet. And what about those players who do take extra Disads for 0 points because they feel it adds to the character?

 

I like to encourage roleplaying as much as possible - rewarding experience based on disads usage/appearance seems to defeat that intent.

 

Skip giving XP based on frequency; after all, if it's frequent, you'll get it pretty often anyhow. Give it based only on severity. If it comes up, and you get it in the teeth, you get XP for it. Otherwise, only the 1 for the game, with maybe another one for good RPing or a long adventure.

 

Also, I think I'd only allow the "worst" disad to count for getting XP. This way, you don't end up with 10 XP for a single adventure. Maybe another +1 if some other Lims were really prevalent. Then again, I feel that 5 should be the most for a long-running campaign. If you wanted to ramp up the power more quickly, give out more.

[arcady]

Re: XP for Disadvantages [Long]

 

Way I see it I would not be doing it by disad, but as an overall gauge. You wouldn't get +1 XP per disad, you'd get +1 XP if the player did things to feature their disad(s) in the game.

[zornwil]

Re: XP for Disadvantages [Long]

 

I like this approach much better. Basing it on disadvantages in total, not each disadvantage, levels the playing field and flattens out the xp curve a bit. One minor quibble: I would base the severity on the potential implications of the disadvantage in that particular session, and consider adding +1 for a good/creative role playing solution.

 

Although I'm still of the opinion that this should tie less to disadvantages and more to character role playing in general (don't most characters have some "disadvantages" that aren't on the character sheet?)

I like Tesuji's suggestion quite a bit. I differ with you just a tad in one area - I think using such a system is good to help define what good roleplaying is, making GM awards slightly less arbitrary, potentially anyway. I don't want to debate the point, though, as doing so is putting too fine a point on it and of course this is (like anything in such awards) very much "to taste".

 

EDIT/PS - but to your point, I should add, one could/should incorporate awarding for disads not on the sheet, I do agree, if one were to use a system as Tesuji suggests (and I think I'll probably incorporate).