Five magics

[RavensPath]

If you had to pick 5 types of magic for a world, what would they be? The obvious are the 4 elements and void, but I want to see what the rest of Herodom say.

 

Like: Necromancy, Illusion, Enchantment, Psionic, Elemental.

 

 

Discuss.

[tkdguy]

Re: Five magics

 

Have you read the book "Master of the Five Magics"? The magic schools were Thaumaturgy (sympatheitc magic), Alchemy (item creation), Magic (elemental powers and enchanting items, IIRC), Sorcery (illusion and psionics), and Wizardry (summoning and controlling demons).

[projecktzero]

Re: Five magics

 

Have you read the book "Master of the Five Magics"? The magic schools were Thaumaturgy (sympatheitc magic)' date=' Alchemy (item creation), Magic (elemental powers and enchanting items, IIRC), Sorcery (illusion and psionics), and Wizardry (summoning and controlling demons).[/quote']

 

There was also a cool Megadeth song most likely based on the book.

[RavensPath]

Re: Five magics

 

Have you read the book "Master of the Five Magics"? The magic schools were Thaumaturgy (sympatheitc magic)' date=' Alchemy (item creation), Magic (elemental powers and enchanting items, IIRC), Sorcery (illusion and psionics), and Wizardry (summoning and controlling demons).[/quote']

 

 

I have read it, but it was years ago. Thanks for the reminder. I will have to see if the library has a copy to refresh my memory.

 

Anyone else have a preference of 5 different magics?

[Lezentauw]

Re: Five magics

 

You could always follow the set up of Magic the Gathering. Keith Curtis did a magic system that used them.

[arcady]

Re: Five magics

 

On the elements, why did you make number five 'Void?'

 

In the real world, the fifth element is Spirit.

 

 

Five types?

 

Shamanism (Altered States / Spirits / Voodoo)

Elementalism (The five elements)

Witchcraft (Women's Mysteries / Mysterious / Sensual / Divine / Seasonal / Herbal)

Alchemical (chemical / scientific)

Daemonology (Summoning and binding to enforce will / Summerian)

[RavensPath]

Re: Five magics

 

I choose Void because in the mythos of one of my fantasy worlds Void is the unseen element that most people don't know about.

 

Thanks to you and the others for all the sugesstions so far!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Five magics

 

Why 5 exactly? Why limit yourself to only 5? Consider leaving it open ended. There might be 5 KNOWN forms of magic, but that doesnt mean there has to be ONLY 5 forms.

 

However, if you do run with it such an exact number might inspire an entire symbology/numerology oriented on the number 5 in such a setting.

[RavensPath]

Re: Five magics

 

Why 5 exactly? Why limit yourself to only 5? Consider leaving it open ended. There might be 5 KNOWN forms of magic, but that doesnt mean there has to be ONLY 5 forms.

 

However, if you do run with it such an exact number might inspire an entire symbology/numerology oriented on the number 5 in such a setting.

 

 

I hadn't thought about the numerology aspect of it Killer Shrike! Thanks for the idea.

 

The reason for 5 is this: Years ago (9) I was at Gencon with some friends and we were discussing a game world. The world had been split into 5 versions of the same world, each plane/realm had one type of magic that was based/focused there. The planes would be connected through various gates, stairways, portals and such.

 

I just joined a writing group here in town and have a coworker that also enjoys fantasy type writing. We decided to write some stories round robin style but needed a setting. I started one, but then this idea from 9 years ago crept back into my head and I put the city I had been working on into this realm.

 

Once I get the idea fully formed I will probably post parts of it here for people to see. It isn't meant to be a game world per se, but more a fiction world. But I also have no doubt that it would make a fun game world also.

 

I trust, believe in and value the opinions of the people on these boards. I strongly feel that Hero fans are the most creative bunch of fans out there. We span ancient times to centuries in the future with what we play with one system. When I wanted some more input there was only one place to go to get it. Herogames.com

 

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Five magics

 

Let me think on it a bit, and Ill get back to on this.

[tkdguy]

Re: Five magics

 

On the elements, why did you make number five 'Void?'

 

In the real world, the fifth element is Spirit.QUOTE]

 

That sounds like The Book of Five Rings. The five books are the books of earth, water, air, fire, and the void.

[PoorWandering 1]

Re: Five magics

 

Western tranlations / interprations of pre-modern japanese and chinese metaphysical systems name one of the elements void. As i do not speak the languages in question and haven't made a study of the metaphysics involved I cannot speak to the accuracy of the inerprations. I know the game Ledgends of the 5 rings used air-earth-fite-water-void and the game Bushido used soil-metal-wood-fire as part of their respective magic systems.

Note to Arcady. The comment you made about the real world 5th element being spirit. Is sailing dangerously close to starting a discussion on RW metaphysics. A worthy subject but not exactly on thread.

 

In past FH games i have allowed players to define their own magic schools. The idea being that magic expression is unique to each creator. In one game the main pc spellcaster became known as the Wizard of dogs. He chose "Dogs" as his element/ theme and all his magic involved dogs in the effect. He could smell magic for example or summon spirit mastiffs for protection or riding beasts, transform into a wolfman and even as his control of magic grew effect how loyal beasts and even troops were to their masters or commanders.

But if i had to limit it to 5 themes then i would say Divination, Cursing, Astral travel, blessing, and meta-magic. Add weather magic if you call blessing and cursing the same theme.

[Nyrath]

Re: Five magics

 

Have you read the book "Master of the Five Magics"? The magic schools were Thaumaturgy (sympatheitc magic)' date=' Alchemy (item creation), Magic (elemental powers and enchanting items, IIRC), Sorcery (illusion and psionics), and Wizardry (summoning and controlling demons).[/quote']

IIRC in the novel they said that each magic corresponded to something in our mundane universe:

 

• Thaumaturgy = Physics
  
• Alchemy = Chemistry
  
• Magic = Mathematics
  
• Sorcery = Psychology
  
• Wizardry = refusing to admit that demons exist
  

[Dr. Anomaly]

Re: Five magics

 

A couple of years ago, one of my players and I fooled around a bit with an alternative way to do additional Powers for the Amber RPG; the basics may be of some help to you.

 

First, we defined 5 "types" or "classes" of Powers:

 

Ordered

Chaotic

Volitional

Creation

Metamorphic

 

Ordered means the Power tends to increase order -- this would include a lot of healing/repairing type of abilities, as well as preservation and protection.

 

Chaotic means the Power tends to decrease order -- decays, things that destroy, cause confusion, etc.

 

Creation means creating items, usually through some kind of artistry -- you usually don't excercise the Power directly, but instead through some kind of focus or talisman

 

Metamorphic means the Power deals with controlled change -- shapeshifting and so on.

 

Volitional means working one's will on the universe -- a lot of classic magic/sorcery would fall under this category

 

Each of these Fundamentals, as we called them, was a seperate Power, and while you might be able to emulate some of the results using another Power, the one that was keyed to that sort of operation had a "home court" advantage. (Example: it's certainly possible to create an item that gives you some kind of Ordered ability, but put one-on-one against a similar item created using the Creation Power, the one that uses Order will come off second best.)

 

To get other, lesser Powers, you'd use some combination of the 5 Fundamentals in groups of 2 to 5. I'm afraid I can't think of any common examples right off the top of my head -- it's been several years -- but if anyone's interested, I'll try to dig up my notes.

 

The last Power was made up of the anti-components of all 5 -- basically it could neutralize/destroy/protect against any other Power since it was "made up" of the "anti-matter" equivalent of all the others.

 

To find out the relative strengths of each Power, the 5 Fundamentals were assigned a number: Ordered was 5, Chaotic 4, and so on down to Volitional at 1. To find the relative strength of a new Power, you took the average of the strengths of the Powers that made it up. For example, if a new Power partook of the the Ordered, Creation, and Volitional Fundamentals, it would have a relative strength of (5 + 3 + 1 = 9, 9/3 = 3).

 

Of course a character's mastery of a given Power played a part, too...a Master of Power with a strength of 3 could probably best someone who was just a dabbler in a strength 5 Power. Likewise, characters' mental strengths (the force of will driving the Power) came into play as well.

 

It's not actually as vague or complicated as I'm making it sound, I'm afraid, but without my notes in front of me, it's hard to make it crystal clear.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: Five magics

 

In the real world' date=' the fifth element is Spirit.[/quote']

Actually, in the real world, the fifth element is Boron.

 

Five types of magic, eh? How 'bout these:

 

Card tricks

Sawing a lady in half

Making a white tiger disappear

Levitation

Geek tricks

 

But seriously folks:

 

Infusion of magic into items (not the same thing as Alchemy, this involves more craft and less formula, also includes creation of golems)

Nature Magic ("Druidry" - nature friendly manipulation of animals, plants, and weather)

Formulaic Magic (This is more like what I would call alchemy - obscure formulas and rituals involving specific substances, gestures, and words from long-dead languages which somehow create magical effects)

Conjuration (Bringing forth demons, elementals, undead, and other supernatural creatures)

Gift (Widely varying types of magic powers granted to individuals randomly or at the will of the gods. Often includes psychic powers, precognition/clairvoyance, magical protection, empathic healing, or sometimes truly strange powers not seen in any other type of magic.)

[RavensPath]

Re: Five magics

 

People, I continue to be impressed. A lot of great ideas have been posted here and I hope even more are posted.

 

And Phil, your Boron comment was funny. Awful, but funny!

 

Thanks again and keep them coming. Once I have more of the world done I will post it here!

[Nyrath]

Re: Five magics

 

If you had to pick 5 types of magic for a world, what would they be? The obvious are the 4 elements and void, but I want to see what the rest of Herodom say.

 

Like: Necromancy, Illusion, Enchantment, Psionic, Elemental.

Again, as is the basis of all things Hero, one shouldn't confuse effects with causes, e.g., a laser beam and a microwave bolt are both 3d6 ranged attacks with different special effects.

 

In the same way, "psionics" would be the family of mental attacks while "elemental" is a type of special effect

 

So when creating your magic system, you can define your types of magic as groupings of powers, groupings of special effects, or be creative and define each type as a power+special effect pair.

[RavensPath]

Re: Five magics

 

Very true Nyarth. But I am also looking for it from a writing perspective as well as a game one.

 

From the game perspective there will be bonuses if certain types of magic (based on sfx most likely) are cast in certain areas. It will also determine what type of magic the player is better at. This may be bigger VPP or better skill roll. I'm not that far into it yet. The world will start with stories and then develop into the game world.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Five magics

 

OK, on limited time, so Im going to attempt to be brief.

 

Basically, this reminds me vaguely of the "Nexus" series by Weis and Hickman, with literally 1 world split into seperate parts. That had a heavy elemental slant to it IIRC, with an Earth world, and Air world, a Fire World, a Water world, and the Nexus between them all. Each world also had different sorts of Magic, although I dont remember that being a huge deal except for the necromancy world. My memory of the series is clouded as it's been a number of years since I read it and the fact that I dont like Weis and Hickman books in general (although I do like Weis & Perrin's Star Wars-esque Star of the Guardians / Mag Force 7 series http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0553286005/ref=pd_sxp_elt_l1/104-3042501-7548750 ).

 

All that aside, if I were to do something like you suggest where I wanted X worlds, and the central difference between each world was that each had a different Magic System, then I would make sure of certain key points:

 

Each Magic System needs to be robust enough to center a setting around

Each Magic System should be mechanically distinct, even if they are capable of similar effects

Each Magic System must be powerful enough to justify their relevance, but not so powerful that non-Magic Users are not viable PC's

Each setting should mirror or symbolically link to it's Magic System in several ways ranging from physical reality to nomenclature

Each Magic System must be roughly comparable overall

 

With those central points in place, I would immediately disqualify anything as simplistic as simply attaching SFX to each world. It's too narrowly scoped to hang an entire sub-setting around a SFX without seeming a) very contrived and very single-dimensional, IMO.

 

Also, trying to deconstruct all of reality into a handful of easily labeled aspects, particularly only five in all, is also extremely contrived and constricting, not to mention rather arbitrary and illogical.

 

Basically I would determine the answer to the most important questions involved in such a setting.

 

We know the WHAT, it's the opening premise. 1 world split into 5, each with a different Magic System.

 

The HOW is also pretty straightforward at the 1000 foot level -- it was done with Magic. The specifics dont matter at this point.

 

Next up, WHO split the world into five parts, each with a seperate Magic System. Thats a very specific and unnatural state of affairs; unlikely to have happened accidentally at the least. There was some sort of guiding hand or hands involved. Now, intrinsically all 5 Magic Systems are no doubt powerful in some fashion, so if they couldnt/didnt stop the split then possible origins are either (a) it was done by a more powerful source ( it occured via stealth © they agreed to it (d) they did it themselves.

 

Running with those 4 possibilities I would consider that Divine Magic is a type of Magic. Since only 1 type of Magic is possible per world, it doesnt make sense to me that a god or gods would be happy about giving up having reps on the other 4 worlds when their priests were all confined to the fifth. Thus I would determine that there are no gods or Divine magic in this setting. This limits the likelyhood of origin (a); though it doesnt completely rule it out, it does reduce a possible initiator in the form of one or more dieties.

 

So moving forward with the idea that all Magic is learned or in-born since there are no gods/entities/whatever you call them granting Magic. Now Im left with a few specific decisions to make regarding my origin theory.

 

If I go with origin (a), since I dont have gods then I would have to manufacture either a single individual who was more powerful than any other Magic User who did it, though either they knew a sixth Magic type (even if it were unique to themselves), knew multiples types of the five Magics (perhaps all of them), or had some other ability outside the ability of every one else in the setting. Alternately there could have been a sixth group of Magic Users, more powerful, wiser, yadda yadda who sundered the world into parts. Either way I would have to decide where they went thereafter, and I might have one or more uber-NPCs floating around somewhere outside the realm of the rest of the setting. That just screams Dues Ex Machina fodder, and I don't care for such personally. So, overall, Im not loving origin (a).

 

Origin ( is basically the same as origin ( except the responsible party/parties don't have to be so uberpowerful to pull it off. It's possible that one of the five Magic Styles collectively did it, or a practitioner of that style did it themselves. It still means that the power to split the world (and theoretically recombine it) could be managed by one of the Magic Systems. Since one of my tenants is that the Magic Systems should be roughly comparable then this would mean that all of them would need to be as powerful or have some other strength to compete. Probably a skip on origin ( as well.

 

Origin © is the consensual option, but it still requires an active party. I'll pass for the same reason as origin (a).

 

That leaves us Origin (d), where the deed was done via a combined action by practitioners of the 5 Magic Systems. Whether it was done collectively and unanimously, or by as few as 1 person from each on the sly is immaterial; the point is it's a self-contained approach. It took practitioners of all 5 arts to do it and would logically take practitioners of all 5 arts to undo it as well. Once the worlds are split it would require transdimensional congress of some sort to arrange, minimizing the likelihood at the very least. Overall, I like origin (d) because it keeps the focus where it belongs; on the 5 Magic Systems.

 

Now that Ive decided on origin (d), the question is WHY would they do it? At it's root splitting the world is a territorial behavior. It says this is ours and only ours. This indicates competition at least and perhaps defense as well. Were the 5 Magic Styles at war with each other previously? Or were they at a detante and split to avoid a war? It seems the most likely trail to follow to me -- either open or potential hostility between the Magic Systems. It may have been a 5 way split or perhaps 2 of the groups were the instigators and the other 3 either allied or were caught in the middle, or some other variation. Either way, the split occured either to end or prevent a war.

 

The next question is WHERE. Is each world a complete full sized world, like a photocopy of the original, or do each have distinctive idiosyncracies?

 

The photocopy approach would be the easiest to develop; you only need to detail 1 world at the base level, and then consider how each Magic System has altered the applicable world. You might even go the route of having each world be a copy right down to the people. As far as the discrepancy with the Magic Users you could say that a person is only able to use one of the Magic Systems as a campaign ground rule, and that the Magic System a person can use is the same for all "copies" of that person; thus if Character A could use Magic Style 1 then on the Magic Style 1 world Character A is a Magic User, but in the other four worlds he's some other non-Magic Using profession. That could be interesting, although it would only be meaningful if the campaign skipped around between the dimensions. So cool idea, but only if the game is run a certain way.

 

If the worlds are each different and seperate and distinct, with no crossover between it's inhabitants and geography, then the downside is the GM has to detail 5 seperate settings. The logical approach would be to make them smaller to reduce the workload, but whatever. The advantage to this is that each setting is interesting in it's own right, and can be themic. I think Ill go with this route for my theoretical setting. Though the development load is higher, it's a much more flexible and open approach and doesnt force me to run the game a specific way to show it off.

 

Finally, WHEN was this done? Recently? Within living memory? In the last century or three? So long ago it's myth or no longer remembered? I think it would be most interesting if it happend a few centuries ago. Old enough to be somewhat ambiguous and mysterious as well as time enough for the civilizations of the five worlds to progress in interesting fashions, but recently enough to be remembered. But really any "WHEN" works for various tones of campaign.

 

 

Now that I have a framework to work against, it's time to do the Magic Systems. If I were looking to fill them in I might consult Fantasy HERO and pick 5 from there. If I was planning on creating them from scrap I'd get started, keeping in mind the tennants I defined for the setting above. However, since I'm me and have already designed a lot of Magic Systems I would probably do the following:

 

 

World One: Base it on Wizardry/Sorcery/Magni/Sortilege/Elementalism -- the "Vancian" systems listed on my site. I would consider all of these to be permutations of the same Magic System.

 

World Two: Base it on Adeptology

 

World Three: Base it on Metier

 

World Four: Base it on Magecraft or Spellweaving; probably Spellweaving

 

World Five: Base it on Aeldenari

 

 

Each of the Systems listed allow a diverse array of permutations among practitioners of that System, allow multiple organizations or schools or styles, etc, but are all still mechanically one Magic System. They support a lot of variations, that are flavorful, but under the hood are the same.

 

For the purposes of basing an entire World on each, I would finally just add a vaneer of exposition to each "flavoring" each into a conceptual way of thinking/viewing the world and perhaps tying it into each World directly.

 

For example the Vancian styles are all based on classifying things; perhaps their World is very categorically defined, it's governments very officious and meticulous, and so on. Perhaps people from this setting receive structured education and are universally literate, and have better trained intellects. +3 INT and a few undefined KS's in a Cultural Package perhaps. People with Eidetic Memories would be quite favored; perhaps it's bred true often enough to be very common if the Worlds have been seperated for a long time. Etc.

 

Adeptology is all about doing what you want, so maybe their world is much more free form verging on the anarchic. No rules, no set ways of doing things; do as I like the whole of the law. People tend to be willful and not easily impressed, and people tend to used to talking their way thru things since violence can occur at any time if other people are irritated; perhaps +3 PRE, +1 EGO and some undefined social skills in a World package.

 

Metier is all about defining Styles in an open ended but internally reciprocal fashion. Perhaps the world of Metier itself works on the concept of "tit for tat". Justice might be literal-minded eye-for-an-eye. Economic transactions might be based on exactly equal transfers, with universal conversion tables for trade goods and price fixing in place. People for this setting tend to be universally fair and non-extreme. No stat bonuses, but perhaps some kind of Detect based power(s) imbedded in Talent(s), a Analyze Value Sense, and maybe a Detect Balance ability.

 

Spellweaving has several variants listed, but each revolves around mastering the ability to do many tricks with a common root skill. Perhaps the people of this world are skill masters; A world of Master Craftsmen and Experts. Maybe everyone starts off with a paired KS and PS for their profession, with a nice bonus to the role. And maybe a perk tree could be set up reflecting the Status granted to certain professions like smithys, and another Perk reflecting Rank in that profession, like Apprentice, Journeyman, Master. In fact something like the seven color-coded ranks of set professions depicted in Dave Duncan's Reluctant Swordsman setting could be used here. That could be cool.

 

Finally, Aeldenari is inborn. An Aeldenaren is born with certain gifts, and thats all they get. Maybe their entire world is based on the idea of order of birth and caste. Everything is hereditary -- your station is determined at birth, and the only out is to be an Aeldenaren. Kind of like the D'Shai series in some ways, and caste based cultures. Caste is never fun, pretty, pleasant, or fair, but it might be an interesting setting to explore with mature players.

 

 

So theres my thoughts on the matter; gotta run to meet my wife for dinner. Have fun!

[RavensPath]

Re: Five magics

 

OK, on limited time, so Im going to attempt to be brief.

 

So theres my thoughts on the matter; gotta run to meet my wife for dinner. Have fun!

 

 

And that was brief! This is exactly why I love Hero Games and the people here. I haven't had time to really think about everything that was said here. But I will. Thank you Killer Shrike for your invaluable input. I love your Fantasy site and am honored that you would take the time to think about this and post it.

 

And thanks to everyone else that has posted too. I have gotten so many idea from the posts here!

 

Ravenspath

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Five magics

 

And that was brief! This is exactly why I love Hero Games and the people here. I haven't had time to really think about everything that was said here. But I will. Thank you Killer Shrike for your invaluable input. I love your Fantasy site and am honored that you would take the time to think about this and post it.

 

And thanks to everyone else that has posted too. I have gotten so many idea from the posts here!

 

Ravenspath

np! I always like processing info and thinking about things in different ways.

 

Make sure to post back with your results!

[tkdguy]

Re: Five magics

 

IIRC in the novel they said that each magic corresponded to something in our mundane universe:

 

• Thaumaturgy = Physics
  
• Alchemy = Chemistry
  
• Magic = Mathematics
  
• Sorcery = Psychology
  
• Wizardry = refusing to admit that demons exist
  

 

Wow, I just discovered I'm a thaumaturge/magician!

 

And the fifth element was actually ether, which corresponds to void. Ether was what filled the space between the extraterrestrial objects.

[tkdguy]

Re: Five magics

 

Another question: What about clerical magic? Is it considered part of the five magics, a special case, or it doesn't exist?

 

Of course, if clerical magic doesn't exist, that doesn't stop priests from learning magic on their own.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Five magics

 

Actually I dredged up my battered copy of Master of the Five Magics, and they are defined as follows:

 

Thaumaturgy

The Principle of Sympathy (like produces like)

The Principle of Contagion (once together always together)

 

Alchemy

The Doctrine of Signatures (the attributes without mirror the powers within)

 

Magic

The Maxim of Persistance (perfection is eternal)

 

Sorcery

The Rule of Three (thrice Spoken once Fulfilled)

 

Wizardry

Law of Ubiquity (flame premeates all)

Law of Dichotomy (dominance or submission)

 

 

In practice Thaumaturgy was good for practical effects and was largely based on manipulating scale and proporation. Thus taking a twig from a log, one could move the log by moving the twig, and the movement would be scaled proportionately to the size distance between the two. Things like that.

 

Alchemy was about making potions and powders and such, but it was acheived via mixing Eye of Newt Hair of Dog type things according to strict recipes.

 

Magic was about artificing magic items, but it was acheived by extremely esoteric rituals that had to be performed in precisely the right fasion. The art of learning Magic was the art of remembering ones part of the ritual and matering ones body enough to not screw it up.

 

Sorcery was about mind control, and in practice required eye contact. However, according to some remarks made by an old Sorceror, apparantly each use of Sorcery weakens the user, or perhaps one weakens with age. I cant recall any more and dont feel like browsing to find out. Also, Sorcery could do mass illusions (the Images Power would be a better fit in the HERO System unless AoE were applied to Mental Illusions), but again I dont recall the specifics.

 

Finally Wizardry was about summoning and controlling demons. In practice it mostly just required a highly disciplined mind and extreme willpower.

 

Of the 5 Magics in Lyndon Hardy's books, only one (Sorcery) allowed for direct effects. The other 4 required prior planning and/or were indirect in nature.

 

 

 

However, I dont think the OP was asking about the Five Magics in Master of the Five Magics; my impression was the question was more generalized and just coincidentally he asked for five. Could be wrong however.

 

Personally I think Master of the Five Magics is a cool book, particularly for a HERO System GM, for it's conceptual value. However the actual 5 Magic Systems depicted therein are pretty low powered, difficult to use, and of limited use by adventuring PC's in most Fantasy campaigns.

[RavensPath]

Re: Five magics

 

Another question: What about clerical magic? Is it considered part of the five magics, a special case, or it doesn't exist?

 

Of course, if clerical magic doesn't exist, that doesn't stop priests from learning magic on their own.

 

There are no divine magic clerics per se. Any religions that are developed may have mages in them that can do magic, but it is not from a Divine source. (That just makes me picture a god in his realm, realizes that the divine magic generator is running low on power so he runs out and gets "EverDivine" or "Divinergizer" batteries, rushes home and replaces them (and yes I know those names were really really bad!))

 

This whole world is really starting to come together in my head. Thanks again everyone!

 

Killer Shrike, mind if I PM or email you with some questions about your magic systems sometime this weekend?