CBikle Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Re: Robbers on the Road Looking back at the original post, I think I need more info. Taxboy: How are bandits/highwaymen usually regarded in the part of your game world where the robbery would be taking place ? Do they normally leave survivors ? Is there in fact a charismatic gentleman-type bandit leading the gang ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBikle Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Re: Robbers on the Road The point of the bandit encounter is to move a story along, or introduce a story. The fact that the odds are overwhelming is a signal to the PCs that it's ok to surrender. Fighting against impossible odds is a staple of the fantasy genre. Conan, Elric and Corwin of Amber did it regularly, usually solo (of course the PCs may not be quite as powerful as those guys). I wouldn't play long with a group if everytime they encounter something more powerful they fight to the death. It wouldn't be much fun at all. Luke Skywalker would have died fighting Vader the first time. Great fun that. Heroic death, but end of the rebellion. Good guys lose. Plus, the drama of Luke getting stronger for the dreaded rematch that must eventually come is lost. Such a cool story to be wasted becasue a PC is unwilling to allow the story to develop. Sometimes I think GMs overthink their scenarios and don't take into account, PC actions based on character's(and players') personalities and circumstances and that leads to the "I'm just trying to tell a good story" card getting overplayed. Part of the charm of RPGs, is that your character might handle a situation diffently than say Batman, Luke Skywalker, etc. If I'm playing Cyril the Paladin and I'm escorting the princess through the woods, surrendering to the bandits is almost certainly not an option. If I'm playing Mort the Thief, I'd be a lot more willing to negotiate. Part of GMing is being more adaptive and responsive to how characters might react to plot elements (like the ambush). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintQuakko Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Re: Robbers on the Road Fighting against impossible odds is a staple of the fantasy genre. Conan, Elric and Corwin of Amber did it regularly, usually solo (of course the PCs may not be quite as powerful as those guys). Sometimes I think GMs overthink their scenarios and don't take into account, PC actions based on character's(and players') personalities and circumstances and that leads to the "I'm just trying to tell a good story" card getting overplayed. Part of the charm of RPGs, is that your character might handle a situation diffently than say Batman, Luke Skywalker, etc. If I'm playing Cyril the Paladin and I'm escorting the princess through the woods, surrendering to the bandits is almost certainly not an option. If I'm playing Mort the Thief, I'd be a lot more willing to negotiate. Part of GMing is being more adaptive and responsive to how characters might react to plot elements (like the ambush). Also, you have to plan for "Option C", when the PCs do everything the "wrong" (read: unplanned for, and unforseen) way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbarron Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Re: Robbers on the Road Sometimes I think GMs overthink their scenarios and don't take into account' date=' PC actions based on character's(and players') personalities and circumstances and that leads to the "I'm just trying to tell a good story" card getting overplayed.[/color'] Part of the charm of RPGs, is that your character might handle a situation diffently than say Batman, Luke Skywalker, etc. If I'm playing Cyril the Paladin and I'm escorting the princess through the woods, surrendering to the bandits is almost certainly not an option. If I'm playing Mort the Thief, I'd be a lot more willing to negotiate. Part of GMing is being more adaptive and responsive to how characters might react to plot elements (like the ambush). I wouldn't just stick Cyril the Paladin in a situation where I know his Code of Honor will get him killed (unless that's the point). And I would certainly take him into account in planning the scenario. But again, I can't emphasis enough, that there will be a point to this bandit attack. Cyril and his band of ass kickers will get pretty bored after a while beating up everyone who crosses their path. To me, at least, a much more fun story would be for the princess to actually get kidnapped while she is being guarded by Cyril. Then Cyril would have to figure out who kidnapped the princess, why, where she is being held, etc...then he has to go free her in order to salvage his honor. Further, lets suppose that the princesses driver is in on it, and with a knife to the poor girls throat forces Cyril to surrender his sword (Cyril has to struggle with his Code of Honor on this one, no doubt). The stakes get even higher for Cyril. Not only does Cyril have to save the princess, he now also has to get his fathers sword back, and avenge this stinging dishonor to his family name. In addition to all this, Cyril is going to get grief in court for his failure to protect the princess and his choice to give up his sword in surrender. Some will argue he should have fought to the death, he should have seen the ambush coming, he should never show his face again, etc. This all sets the stage for Cyril to battle against the odds and save the princess despite all this grief, when no one thought he could. That's a heroic story I'd like to tell. Beating up bandits until you die is heroic in a lame, you're dead and no one tells stories about your gallantry sort of way. If Cyril manages through great play to stop the kidnapping, good for him. The bandits will try again later. I'm not going to force things that aren't there. But in order for Cyril to go through a great story of going from riding high, to down-and-out, to his second chance and ultimate redemption, he has to lose at some point...and not die in the process. Given all the above...I might also just give Cyril a good bonk on the head at the start of hoistilities. He's knocked out, the princess gets taken and his sword gets stolen. Similar story, just not quite as angsty. I can do it however I think it works best. Trust me, I'm flexible... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBikle Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 Re: Robbers on the Road Cyril and his band of ass kickers will get pretty bored after a while beating up everyone who crosses their path. To me, at least, a much more fun story would be for the princess to actually get kidnapped while she is being guarded by Cyril. Then Cyril would have to figure out who kidnapped the princess, why, where she is being held, etc...then he has to go free her in order to salvage his honor. All of that would be fine if it came about naturally either through one side being more lucky and/or strategic than the other in the initial ambush. If the GM is obviously stacking the deck, fudging die-rolls, etc in order for "his story" to progress, that shatters my suspension of disbelief and pulls me right out of the game. I prefer impartiality or at least a pretty good illusion of it. Further, lets suppose that the princesses driver is in on it, and with a knife to the poor girls throat forces Cyril to surrender his sword (Cyril has to struggle with his Code of Honor on this one, no doubt). The stakes get even higher for Cyril. Not only does Cyril have to save the princess, he now also has to get his fathers sword back, and avenge this stinging dishonor to his family name. That's fine and is an interesting plot development. Cyril would probably surrender in that case and that decision would be based on that character's M.O. I'd have no problem with that at all. I don't consider the treacherous stagecoach to be railroading, as the decision to surrender or not, would be mine. However... Cyril could be the kind of paladin who runs both the princess and the driver through with his longsword in order to protect her chastity. The annoyance factor of railroad adventures increases exponentially depending on how long the GM drags the railroad out. If the players are sitting at the table for 45 minutes unable to really interact with the environment while the GM narrates "his story" and has NPCs and events play their roles... I do understand that there's a section of players that prefer that the GM take a more visible presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trencher Posted January 13, 2005 Report Share Posted January 13, 2005 Re: Robbers on the Road However... Cyril could be the kind of paladin who runs both the princess and the driver through with his longsword in order to protect her chastity. It is funny because it is true! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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