Summoning Spell Limitation Question

[Guest Worldmaker]

I'm writing up a spell entitled A Summons One Dares Not Deny. Essentially, this spell allows the caster to bring any sentient being of whom he has a correct name and physical description of into his presence, as long as that being is within 100 miles of him.

 

So, the question: what limitation value does "Summoner Must Know Target's Full Name And Have A Detailed Description Of Being" have, do you think?

[Curufea]

Re: Summoning Spell Limitation Question

 

-1 I'd say - same as magical reagents that are difficuilt to obtain.

 

However - I'd rather make the spell a teleport usable against others, than a summon.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Summoning Spell Limitation Question

 

How's this look?

 

 

A Summons One Dares Not Deny: Summon One Specific Creature Of Up To 350 Points - Specific Being (+1), Expanded Class Of Beings (Any Sentient Being; +½)(175 Active Points); Extra Time (Full Phase; -½), Summoner Must Know Target's Full Name And Have A Detailed Description Of Being (-½), Being To Be Summoned Must Be Within 100 Miles Of The Summoner (-¼). Total Cost: 64 Points.

[Outsider]

Re: Summoning Spell Limitation Question

 

Aside from the great big stop sign associated with summoning a specific being, it looks fine.

 

I imagine that a lot of people, especially important ones, will have been given additional middle names that nobody but the parents and the priest know. They themselves may not even learn them until they reach their majority.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Summoning Spell Limitation Question

 

Aside from the great big stop sign associated with summoning a specific being, it looks fine.

 

I imagine that a lot of people, especially important ones, will have been given additional middle names that nobody but the parents and the priest know. They themselves may not even learn them until they reach their majority.

 

 

Well, since I'm the GM the stop sign isn't that big a concern, but you do have a point with the names...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Summoning Spell Limitation Question

 

I'd probably give the "full name and detailed description" more weight (most likely -1), but that really depends on the campaign - ie how strictly you will interpret this. Is "Fred the Blacksmith" adequate, or do I need to know his middle and surname as well? Is it sufficient I know he is short ahd stocky, or is the mole on his left inner thigh also necessary?

 

I'd probably also weight "within 100 miles" a bit higher - how much of the world (ie the campaign, so pool of people he wants to summon) is within 100 miles?

 

I'm not a big fan of the restrictions on "Summon Specific Being", so I'd waive the +1 advantage in this case, as you seem to be doing.

 

One question - your intial description sounded like a "it brings him here" power, but the power as written up would allow the caster to force obedience with an ego vs ego roll. If that's not the intent, I believe there's a limitation that removes the ego roll ability and requires you to negotiate any services from the summoned being which wuld seem perfect for this ability.

 

Cool spell!

[Nuke]

Re: Summoning Spell Limitation Question

 

If the intent is moving people around, I'd probably also require the subject to be willing and let them feel a ping that somebody is trying to summon them.

 

I played a MUD online for years, and "summon other player" was a common group activity to bring the group back together.

 

-- Nuke

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Summoning Spell Limitation Question

 

I think if you were costing this out appropriately it would be:

 

Mind Scan, One Way Link +1, Extra Time (Full Phase) -½, Summoner Must Know Target's Full Name And Have A Detailed Description Of Being -½, Location Unknown -1, Linked to Teleportation -1/2, plus PSL +12 vs. Mind Scan Penalties. To attack, you must beat EGO+10.

 

Teleportation 2", Usable as Attack +1/2, Based on ECV +1, Megascale (1" = 100km) +3/4, Linked to Mind Scan -1/2, Only to Summon the Target to your side -2.

 

I don't know the points, so the Linking will have to be reviewed.

 

I might be missing something, but that's how I'd approach it. Alternatively, looking at the description of Specific Being +1 it reads:

"In general, the GM should only allow this Advantage when the Summoned being is deceased or has been precisely located with some other power".

 

I wouldn't classify knowing a person's name, even a TrueName, to be precisely located. That's what Mind Scan is for. I would change Mind Scan thusly:

 

Mind Scan, Extra Time (Full Phase) -½, Summoner Must Know Target's Full Name And Have A Detailed Description Of Being -½, Location Unknown -1, Cannot Attack Through Lock-On -1.

 

With this, the Mind Scan would only need to beat EGO. Also, I wouldn't allow the control of the summoned target BUT I would use that roll to determine if the summons works. Since summon does not require an attack roll, I think this is a good interpretation of that mechanic wrt the SFX.

[Rapier]

Re: Summoning Spell Limitation Question

 

Do you use TrueNames? If you use TrueNames the description is pretty moot, but the TrueName is tres powerful. That's a pretty hefty lim...easily -2.

 

If you don't use TrueNames, someone's name and desc isn't very limiting. I'd maybe give you -1/2 or even -1/4 but not much more than that. "Bill the MailMan, I summon thee."

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Summoning Spell Limitation Question

 

If the intent is moving people around, I'd probably also require the subject to be willing and let them feel a ping that somebody is trying to summon them.

 

The name of the spell is A Summons One Dares Not Deny The target gets no choice in the matter.

[Outsider]

Re: Summoning Spell Limitation Question

 

Yeah, stop signs are a lot less troublesome when you're the GM

 

You'd still have the problem that your players, knowing that this spell is out there, might want to buy it (or a modified version it) and make the stop sign an issue.

 

Another thing, unless the spell is "A Summons Bob Johnson Dares Not Deny" wouldnt you need the +1 Expanded Class advantage to allow the summoning of anything/anyone who's name/description you have?

 

Are there other limitations that you havent listed that make it cheaper than the whopping 64 real points your writeup shows? Even at /3 on spells thats a lot of points, unless youre playing a very high point campaign!

 

The only specific being summon I ever wrote up was "Bottled Life" in 4th Edition, and to justify the specific being summon (usually forbidden under 4th ed. rules) I required that the caster have the specific being he was going to summon at a later date available and either helpless, unsuspecting, or cooperative at the time he bottled them.

 

An updated 5th Ed. version (and one that handles a 350 point creature!) might look like this :

 

Bottled Life

29 (227) Summon - up to a 350 point Creature

___(+1) Expanded type (Anything stuffed in the bottle)

___(+1) Specific Being (The being stuffed in the bottle)

___(+1/4) Trigger (open the bottle)

___(-1/4) Summoned being is annoyed on unbottling. Try getting magically rammed into an 4 oz flask, and see how you feel afterward!

___(-1 3/4) OAF - Giant rune-carved funnel & Ramrod (bulky), Precisely ground & enchanted Crystal bottle (Expensive, good for 1 use)

___(-3) Extra Time, 1 hour - Inking runes all over the being to be bottled

___(-1/4) Gestures, 2 hands - Inking the runes

___(-1/4) Incantations - reading the inked runes aloud as they are written

___(-1/4) Concentration, 1/2 DCV - The inking and reading cannot be interrupted

___(-1/2) Requires Skill Roll - Appropriate magic skill

___(-1/2) Side Effects, minor, wide area - Uncontrolled ramming/release of magical energy - 8D6 EB (P) Autofire to caster (at 1/2 DCV), Subject to be bottled (0 DCV), and the lab/equipment (exposed equipment (the ram, funnel, & bottle, at a minimum) is destroyed)

 

Alternatively, and much more cheaply, one could generate the same effect via Major Transform whose untransform condition is to 'remove the cap from the bottle'. This wouldnt really work for your undeniable summons, though, since you arent required to have the being to be summoned in your posession as a material component of the casting. An advantage of this method is that it will work on any being, given time and the absence of power defence. A down side is that it would not work at all on a being with 6 power defence or more.

 

Bottled Life (v2)

3 (30) Transform - 1d6 - target into a sealed bottle.

__(+1) Continuous - target may be rammed until he is in the bottle.

__(-1/4) Limited Target Group - May only bottle sentients & animals.

__(-1/2) No Range

__(-1 3/4) OAF - Giant rune-carved Funnel & Ram device (bulky), Precisely ground & enchanted Crystal bottle (Expensive, good for 1 use)

__(-2) Extra Time, 5 minutes - per D6 of magical ramming.

__(-1/2) Gestures, 2 hands, throughout - puttering about the ram/funnel keeping it working right

__(-1/2) Incantations, Throughout - The ram only runs as long as the runes carved on it are being spoken aloud

__(-1/2) Concentration, 1/2 DCV throughout - running the process requires close attention

__(-1/2) Requires Skill Roll at -1 per 10 active points - Appropriate magic skill

__(-1 1/4) Side Effects, extreme, wide area - Uncontrolled ramming/release of magical energy - 8D6 EB (P) Autofire to caster (at 1/2 DCV), Subject to be bottled (0 DCV), and the lab/equipment (exposed equipment (the ram, funnel, & bottle, at a minimum) is destroyed)

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Summoning Spell Limitation Question

 

Another thing' date=' unless the spell is "A Summons Bob Johnson Dares Not Deny" wouldnt you need the +1 Expanded Class advantage to allow the summoning of [i']anything/anyone[/i] who's name/description you have?

 

I used the lower value Expanded Class because while the spell is "A Summons No Sentient Being Can Deny", its also "A Summons A Non-Sentient Being Is Immune To". You can use it to bring Bob Johnson into your presence, but Bob Johnson's prize milk cow Bessie will stay in her barn when you try to use it on her.

 

 

 

Are there other limitations that you havent listed that make it cheaper than the whopping 64 real points your writeup shows? Even at /3 on spells thats a lot of points, unless youre playing a very high point campaign!

 

This is just the base. The players could add other limitations, depending on what type of magic they are using (Rune Magic, Ritualistic Theurgy, and so on).

 

 

Bottled Life

29 (227) Summon - up to a 350 point Creature

 

This is so very stolen.

[Outsider]

Re: Summoning Spell Limitation Question

 

This is so very stolen.

 

While a very similar writeup might well have been made by someone else at some other time, I wasnt (and am not) aware of where that might have happened. It -is- a pretty easily come up with idea, being as how it is only a very slight variation on the 'Djinni in a Bottle' concept, and has thus probably been made by many, many people in many, many games.

 

Thankyou so very much for calling me a thief, though. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about posting in your threads, and so encourages me to do so again in the future.

[Guest Worldmaker]

Re: Summoning Spell Limitation Question

 

While a very similar writeup might well have been made by someone else at some other time, I wasnt (and am not) aware of where that might have happened. It -is- a pretty easily come up with idea, being as how it is only a very slight variation on the 'Djinni in a Bottle' concept, and has thus probably been made by many, many people in many, many games.

 

Thankyou so very much for calling me a thief, though. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about posting in your threads, and so encourages me to do so again in the future.

 

 

Um... no... I was saying "I'm going to steal this from you because its a neat idea", not "You're a thief."

[Outsider]

Re: Summoning Spell Limitation Question

 

D'oh!

 

 

/RoseanneRosannadannaVoice ON

Nevermind!

/RoseanneRosannadannaVoice OFF

 

 

 

PS : You had to quote me in full so I couldnt just go back and edit it out, then pretend it never happened, didnt you! (I do feel silly about this... it will teach me to come straight to Hero Games without a depressurization period to settle my paranoia after having been on a much less friendly board.)