Infinite Characteristics

[Zaratustra]

Been a while since I last disgusted the forums, so based on Mattingly or whoever's essay on inexistent characteristics, here's my essay on what infinite characteristics would be like. I have no idea of the point cost of each of these, so don't ask.

 

INFINITE STR: A character with Infinite STR can deal out AS MUCH DAMAGE AS HE WANTS TO. 5d6, 20d6, 1000d6, doesn't matter. He can also lift any material object and throw it at any distance. His Leaping distance is also infinite (see Infinite Movement)

 

INFINITE DEX: Infinite DEX means a character never fails any DEX or DEX-based skill roll, for any reason. His OCV and DCV are also infinite, which means he'll never miss an attack and can never be attacked directly: Only by area (Remember he can also dive for cover any distance) and 0-DCV attacks.

 

INFINITE CON: A character with infinite CON never gets sick or poisoned, nor stunned.

 

INFINITE BODY: A character that has Infinite BODY is pretty much immortal: No quantity of damage will ever kill him. He can only be stunned or contained.

 

INFINITE INT: Infinite INT grants the character automatic success on all INT and INT-based skill rolls. He never misses any PER rolls either, and can never be fooled by Images.

 

INFINITE EGO: There are probably some cases of this out there. Infinite EGO means immunity to most mental powers: It also means an infinite ECV, so the character will never miss any mental attack.

 

INFINITE PRE: A character with infinite PRE can use as many dice as he wants to in Presence Attacks, and is immune to Presence Attacks and some of the mental powers.

 

INFINITE COM: No idea how that would work, since COM is not used in any rolls. Maybe the character is a visage of transcedental level or something.

 

INFINITE PD/ED: Infinite PD or ED grants the character total immunity to that type of attack, even if Armor Piercing. The difference between resistant and non-resistant still applies, however.

 

INFINITE SPD: A character with infinite SPD may take AS MANY PHASES AS HE WANTS TO in a turn.

 

INFINITE REC: Infinite REC means all STUN, END and BODY is healed whenever the character takes a Recovery. Somewhat strange.

 

INFINITE END: The simplest infinite characteristic to define. A character with infinite END plays as if all his powers use the 0 END advantage. He also may push any stat to the limits defined by the campaign without any ill effects.

 

INFINITE STUN: A char with infinite STUN never gets Knocked Out, although he might be Stunned. Theorically, he could also use as much STUN as he wants in place of END, but that's up to the crazy GM that let a player take this.

 

Next: Infinite Powers.

[Victim]

Don't forget secondary characteristics.

 

Infinite Strength is also infinite STUN, PD and REC.

 

Infinite Body is infinite Stun.

 

Infinite CON is infinite ED, STUN, REC, and END.

 

Infinite DEX provides unlimited SPD.

[Zaratustra]

That's up to the GM.

[Kintara]

How does an Infinite Dex character interact with another Infinite Dex character? Does defense always win, offense? Do they become 50/50 (like they cancel each other out)? What about infinite damage and defense? Does an Infinite ST character have the option of Infinite damage, or does he have to define it?

 

I think it should do this: Any instance of Infinite/Infinite interaction makes the Characteristics involved equal 10, for the purposes of that interaction only (so they'd still be Infinite against any other Finite interaction with them at the same time).

[CrosshairCollie]

Heh ...

 

All the old mathematical conundrums on this one. How much is Infinity plus one?

 

This is one of the reason I'm glad Champions doesn't have 'infinite' or 'absolute' powers. No 'total invulnerability' or 'can cut through anything's.

[Thirdbase]

Remember an 18 always misses or fails a roll (Pg 2 FREd).

[caersidi]

Infinite Powers

 

This discussion reminds me of a Justice Incorporated NPC in a campaign years ago. As the GM, I wanted somebody who simply could not be damaged (it was actually part of a deal with Death --one of those "I long to die but I can't" things). Anyway, I know I could have simply used GM fiat to declare the character invulnerable, but I ended up adding another level to Damage Reduction: 100%, at double the cost of 75%. He took this for PD and ED Resistant. Of course, I wouldn't let a PC buy it, but it worked in context.

[Tech]

Originally posted by Thirdbase

Remember an 18 always misses or fails a roll (Pg 2 FREd).

 

True, unless some GM decides to change it with a house rule.

[Zaratustra]

Noted. Replace 'never fails' with 'only fails in a 18'. It is a 1 in 216 chance, but IT JUST MIGHT WORK!

[GamePhil]

Re: Heh ...

 

Originally posted by CrosshairCollie

All the old mathematical conundrums on this one. How much is Infinity plus one?

 

Infinity isn't a number in mathematics, it's just a concept of expanding without bound. So, infinity plus one is actually meaningless. Infinity times two, though, means it approaches infinity faster.

 

Or something like that. Oh, wait, you were joking, weren't you?

 

Anyway, the way I generally handle the concept (if it comes up) is to establish a point level at which you have an "absolute" power: 50 DEF cannot be hurt, 30d6 will destroy anything, and so on. Then, only someone with a higher "absolute" power can affect you. So, a god can hurt another god (starship can hurt a starship, and so on), but a mortal won't be able to.

 

Don't generally run games like that, though.

[GamePhil]

Re: Infinite Characteristics

 

Originally posted by Zaratustra

so based on Mattingly or whoever's essay on inexistent characteristics

Just curious: do you mean Incomplete Characters, or something else that I haven't seen?

[CrosshairCollie]

Gamephil: I don't know if I'm joking or not. I was History major. I don't know squat about advanced mathematics.

 

By 'inexistant characteristics' (I'm not sure inexistant is a word ... I think it's 'nonexistant'), I'm thinking it's kind of like the way Undead and Constructs in D&D don't have Constitution scores ... not a score of zero, but they lack the ability altogether. Actually, that's kinda like Automatons and EGO in Hero system, too.

[GamePhil]

Originally posted by CrosshairCollie

By 'inexistant characteristics' (I'm not sure inexistant is a word ... I think it's 'nonexistant'), I'm thinking it's kind of like the way Undead and Constructs in D&D don't have Constitution scores ... not a score of zero, but they lack the ability altogether. Actually, that's kinda like Automatons and EGO in Hero system, too.

You mean like this?

http://www.gamephil.com/incomp.html

[GamePhil]

On further reflection of the concept of Infinite Characteristics, I do think that just allowing the rolls to be automatic is probably the way to go, here.

 

You might also go with the idea of scale: for example, two characters might have infinite strength for purposes of dealing with the rest of the world, but when dealing with each other they would be built more or less in normal Hero terms.

 

As an example of this, there are old issues of the Spectre where he and his opponent are (apparently) tossing planets at one another (they explained this later as fighting on conceptual planes, they weren't really planets, but I digress). Now, though I or even most supers will get squished by a planet, on the Spectre's scale it's just a 6d6 EB.

 

And like that. I'd personally only think of doing this if it was universal for all important characters: if everyone is playing a deity, it's all right to let them do things like this, but otherwise some kind of cost structure should exist.