Another gun that makes even ME go "WHY?"

[proditor]

Re: Another gun that makes even ME go "WHY?"

 

Just call in Campa and Quino and you're all set.

"Let's play..."

 

[gewing]

Re: Another gun that makes even ME go "WHY?"

 

IF you insist on a pistol. At that point, for little more weight, I'd carry a 12 guage with slugs or a Marlin Guide Gunin .45-70. The Garrett HARD CAST LEAD 415 grain flat point at 2100 fps would be brutal on recoil, and DEVASTATING on the other end. Besides, I can hit a LOT better with a rifle.

 

.454 Casull as a *reduced* load?

 

That's the gun you want in case you have a grizzly bear wander into the neighborhood.

 

JG

[gewing]

Re: Another gun that makes even ME go "WHY?"

 

That is pretty funny. THere was a cut down Browning automatic Rifle for the Law enforcement market...

 

The gangsters can KEEP their thompsons. (too heavy and not enough power )

 

years ago before the advent of that vile disgusting and mostly worthless abomination called PC' date=' we had a mafia/gangster day during school spirit week[this was in 82, to show my age']

 

so assorted folks were carrying around violin cases, so I borrowed a hardshell Cello case to tote around for the day, the question was asked "Why a Cello Case, Fire Support of Course"

[Warp9]

The Hero Damage of this gun

 

The new .460 S&W magnum. It is ONLY in the monster revolver they made for the .500, and it is a lenghtened .454 casull, basically. It can use .45 Colt OR .454 CASULL as "REDUCED LOADS"!!!

 

It generates 65,000 PSI chamber pressure, and drives a 200 grain bullet at 2200 FPS!!! out of a bloody pistol!

 

That pressure is so high you can't put it in most lever action rifles.

 

wow.

 

The Hero damage on the other guns seems to relate to the kinetic energy of the weapon. Here is the math:

 

200 grains = 0.01296 KG

 

2200 feet/sec = 670.56 meters/sec

 

formula for kenetic Energy is

KE = 1/2 mass * velocity^2

 

 

KE = 0.5 * 0.01296 * 670.56 * 670.56

 

OR

 

KE = 0.5 * 0.01296 * 449650.7 = 2913.7 Joules

 

 

 

A .44 Mag Desert Eagle is rated at 1530 Joules

 

 

A Smith and Wesson Model 29 (.44 Mag) in the version with the long 29 cm barrel is rated at 1759 Joules

 

Hero follows a progression of +1 DC per 2X KE

 

The KE on the .460 S&W magnum only justifies one extra DC over the .44 mag(2d6+1).

 

It would have to be on the order of 6000 Joules to justify a 2.5 d6 RKA rating.

[gewing]

Re: The Hero Damage of this gun

 

If you assume that the .44 magnum is at the bottom of the 2d6 range of energy levels. If the starting point is 1000 Joules, then it would need 2000 to make 2d6+1, and 4000 to make 2.5d6.

 

 

Now, WHere did I put Toadmasters charts?

 

 

besides, I didn't specify a damage for it. I just stated that as a pistol it is rather ludicrous.

 

Personally, I seriously believe Heros needs more granularity. THere is a difference between a 7.62 nato and a .375 H&H. THere is another jump to teh .458 WInchester, .460 Weatherby, .577 Nitro Express, etc. and they are all less than a .50 BMG, in most respects(bullet design could make up for them).

 

I do muzzle energy calculations for fun. Though I Avoid Metric/international units because most of the literature available here is in English units. Besides, it annoys Europeans.

 

My next project will probably be a .25-35 Ackley improved single shot throwing a 100 gr. .25 caliber bullet at about 3000fps, for right about 2000 ft lbs. A quick, sweet handling, low recoil, deer rifle.

 

The Hero damage on the other guns seems to relate to the kinetic energy of the weapon. Here is the math:

 

200 grains = 0.01296 KG

 

2200 feet/sec = 670.56 meters/sec

 

formula for kenetic Energy is

KE = 1/2 mass * velocity^2

 

 

KE = 0.5 * 0.01296 * 670.56 * 670.56

 

OR

 

KE = 0.5 * 0.01296 * 449650.7 = 2913.7 Joules

 

 

 

A .44 Mag Desert Eagle is rated at 1530 Joules

 

 

A Smith and Wesson Model 29 (.44 Mag) in the version with the long 29 cm barrel is rated at 1759 Joules

 

Hero follows a progression of +1 DC per 2X KE

 

The KE on the .460 S&W magnum only justifies one extra DC over the .44 mag(2d6+1).

 

It would have to be on the order of 6000 Joules to justify a 2.5 d6 RKA rating.

[Kaeto]

Re: Another gun that makes even ME go "WHY?"

 

.500 S&W is a huge handgun! My wife owns a Kimber .45, we believe in large caliber for home defense, plus it is just plain fun to shoot!

FYI: You can purchase new from Kahr Arms a new semi-automatic 1927 A-1 .45 cal Thompson carbine. You can even get a new violin case to carry it. My wife purchased one! It is a "blast" to fire and very accurate at up to 50'. For more info on the Tommyguns visit http://www.tommygun.com

 

I wouldn't buy any Kahr Arms weapons because I don't feel like supporting the Moonies. Kahr Arms and Auto Ordinance are both owned by The "Reverend" Sun Myung Moon.

[Guest Major Tom]

Re: Another gun that makes even ME go "WHY?"

 

The new .460 S&W magnum. It is ONLY in the monster revolver they made for the .500, and it is a lenghtened .454 casull, basically. It can use .45 Colt OR .454 CASULL as "REDUCED LOADS"!!!

 

It generates 65,000 PSI chamber pressure, and drives a 200 grain bullet at 2200 FPS!!! out of a bloody pistol!

 

That pressure is so high you can't put it in most lever action rifles.

 

wow.

 

 

Finally... a backup gun for Seras Victoria!

 

Major Tom

Feuer Frei! (Bang! Bang!)

[Susano]

Re: Another gun that makes even ME go "WHY?"

 

Finally... a backup gun for Seras Victoria!

 

What? Like the 30mm Harkonnen and that 12.5mm assault rifle she hauls around aren't enough?

[Warp9]

Re: The Hero Damage of this gun

 

If you assume that the .44 magnum is at the bottom of the 2d6 range of energy levels. If the starting point is 1000 Joules, then it would need 2000 to make 2d6+1, and 4000 to make 2.5d6.

If 4000 was 2.5 d6, then 8000+ would be 3d6, and 16,000+ would be 3d6+1.

 

The problem there is both the 50 cal Sniper rifle and the .50 Machine Gun are in the 18,000 range, which would put them at 3d6+1 .

 

 

 

besides, I didn't specify a damage for it. I just stated that as a pistol it is rather ludicrous.

Understood.

 

 

 

 

Personally, I seriously believe Heros needs more granularity. THere is a difference between a 7.62 nato and a .375 H&H. THere is another jump to teh .458 WInchester, .460 Weatherby, .577 Nitro Express, etc. and they are all less than a .50 BMG, in most respects(bullet design could make up for them).

On this point we both agree. I have been toying with the concept of reworking the curve so that it is +2 DCs per doubling, or even +3 DCs per each X2. (And I'd rework everything along those lines, including things like STR)

 

I'd keep 10 STR (or 2 DCs) the same as a base. Unfortunately that makes things a bit ugly.

 

+2DCs per X2 would give a much greater difference between guns and allow for more resolution in the system.

 

 

 

 

I do muzzle energy calculations for fun. Though I Avoid Metric/international units because most of the literature available here is in English units. Besides, it annoys Europeans.

I normally think in English units, but back in college we did all our physics stuff in metric, so it is just a habit I picked up. And it is pretty easy to convert one system to the other when necessary.

[Toadmaster]

Re: The Hero Damage of this gun

 

If 4000 was 2.5 d6, then 8000+ would be 3d6, and 16,000+ would be 3d6+1.

 

The problem there is both the 50 cal Sniper rifle and the .50 Machine Gun are in the 18,000 range, which would put them at 3d6+1 .

 

 

 

 

Understood.

 

 

 

 

 

On this point we both agree. I have been toying with the concept of reworking the curve so that it is +2 DCs per doubling, or even +3 DCs per each X2. (And I'd rework everything along those lines, including things like STR)

 

I'd keep 10 STR (or 2 DCs) the same as a base. Unfortunately that makes things a bit ugly.

 

+2DCs per X2 would give a much greater difference between guns and allow for more resolution in the system.

 

 

 

 

 

I normally think in English units, but back in college we did all our physics stuff in metric, so it is just a habit I picked up. And it is pretty easy to convert one system to the other when necessary.

 

Another in agreement, I like the +2DC but it will take a little playing with to see how practical it is. I was fooling around with the break points quite sometime ago (pre 5th ed) and found something as simple as putting the .50 BMG up to 3d6+1 made a huge difference, suddenly there was room for those bigger than .30-06 but smaller than the big magnums rounds, the break points work fine for most cartridges up to 2d6 and then way to many get lumped together to be any fun.

 

Any thoughts from someone more mathematically able than me as to what effect using a more linear damage chart would have on the game? Obviously defences would have to follow a similar path. I often have the feeling the +1 for 2x really only benefits the game by keeping supers cheap, although GURPS which uses a linear damage system does start to run into the issue of so many dice that you might as well use the standard effect rule (2d6+1 for a .45 ACP, 7d6 for a 7.62mm NATO and 13d6 for a .50 BMG for the GURPS challenged)

[gewing]

Re: Another gun that makes even ME go "WHY?"

 

Gewing' date=' correct me if I'm wrong as I'm working off a faulty memory here. Wasn't the Ma-Deuce "handgun" made by Barrett and about the size of pistol gripped 12 gauge?[/quote']

sorry I missed this. Barrett may have made one, but the size of the Maadi-Griffon (iirc) was about that of a pistol grip riot gun, maybe 24 inches long or so.

[gewing]

Re: Another gun that makes even ME go "WHY?"

 

I wouldn't buy any Kahr Arms weapons because I don't feel like supporting the Moonies. Kahr Arms and Auto Ordinance are both owned by The "Reverend" Sun Myung Moon.

iirc they are owned by his son, last I heard, he had no other connction with the "church"