Grafting the Hero skill rules onto Basic D&D

[paigeoliver]

My group plays both Champions and Basic D&D (Rules Cyclopedia D&D, the NON-Advanced version that they pretty much quit supporting around 1993).

 

I prefer the D&D system for Fantasy due to its speed and the fact that there are literally thousands of compatible sourcebooks available for it. But the skill system is very weak. The type of modules I write tend to be combat light and trap and exploration heavy (and thus would still work great with fantasy hero), but I also like the freedom to grab a hack and slash module off the shelf and run it unmodified.

 

I can't just drop the Hero skill rules in unaltered because that will break thieves entirely. (I already house rule thieves abilities at 2 levels higher than their actual level due to the rediculously low thieves abilities in D&D as opposed to AD&D).

 

Does anybody have any good suggestions for grafting the hero skill rules into old style D&D, with particular care taken to make sure thieves don't instantly become SUPER THIEVES. I would also like to make sure such a grafting wouldn't make the thief class completely unneeded either.

[Citizen Keen]

Re: Grafting the Hero skill rules onto Basic D&D

 

My instinct says this is an experiment doomed to fail. That having been said, kudos to you! This could be cool.

 

I'd pick a number of skill points for every class/race (IIRC, they're the same thing in D&D), based on what you see as fair (so, Thieves get a lot, and whatever the most useful class is doesn't get many), and let the characters buy whatever they want with their points. If they buy something they can't use (like if a Wizard buys a +1 CSL with swords and can't use swords), then don't let him use it. (Or don't let him buy it.)

 

So, let characters buy any skills, combat or otherwise. If a character wants a +1 CSL with Fireball (I'd say Magic Missile, but that always hits), then that costs 2 points. So forth. Don't let people use skills they don't have.

[paigeoliver]

Re: Grafting the Hero skill rules onto Basic D&D

 

I was actually going to drop combat skill levels altogether as those are designed for a combat system that I am simply not using. D&D (of the variety I play) actually has a very detailed weapon mastery system (more detailed than AD&D, D20 D&D, or Hero). I see no reason to fix that because it isn't broken, thus I have no need to use the hero weapon familiarity system either.

 

Perhaps it would just be best to figure out exactly how many points each class is truly getting in "skills" and how many they are getting when they level up and just assign the points that way and make a few skills simply off limits to non-thieves. Otherwise any character could dump their few skill points into climbing, lockpicking, security systems and stealth and instantly get all the advantages of the theif class with none of the drawbacks. Combat skill levels and weapon familiarities would be out, but simple skill levels would be available.

 

Or perhaps the brunt of my dissatisfaction is simply the thieve's skill system, which is both rediculous and is incompatible with the existing skill system in the game (which is fairly similar to hero, but makes ability scores a bit TOO important).

[CourtFool]

D&D is bad, mkay.

 

You could always use 3.0's idea…class and non-class skills. Non-class skills cost double or whatever multiple you want. You can even have further degrees of non-class skills. A wizard buying thief skills pays double but a fighter buying thief skills pays triple.

 

This is just to give you an idea. Below are the skill points per level and the class skills. Flavor to your taste.

 

Fighter (6 points/level)

Animal Handler, Climbing, Fast Draw, Navigation, Riding, Survival, Tactics, Weaponsmith

 

Thief (24 points/level)

Acrobatics, Acting, Breakfall, Bribery, Climbing, Concealment, Conversation, Disguise, Forgery, Gambling, Lipreading, Lockpicking, Persuasion, Seduction, Shadowing, Sleight Of Hand, Stealth, Streetwise, Trading

 

Wizard (6 points/level)

Analyze, Bureaucratics, Cryptography, High Society, Inventor, KS, Language, Oratory

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: D&D is bad, mkay.

 

Agree with CourtFool but even moreso. You're probably better off using a D20ish skill system in a (B)D&D game.

[Citizen Keen]

Re: D&D is bad, mkay.

 

d20 has a skill system that is much more in line with what you're looking for than HERO. It did grow out of the original D&D, although it is quite different. But you could use HERO, as I demonstrated above.