Need Help With a Character Concept

[Ki-rin]

I'm trying to make some characters based on L.E. Modesitt Jr's _Adiamante_, particularly the concept known as a "demi". These are biologically and psionically enhanced humans with three distinct classes of abilities:

 

A) The standard super fare of higher characteristics (Think NCM with a maximum of 25 or 30 instead of 20) + linked telepathy to all other demi's + clairsentience + a wide range of skills

"Step Up" a temporary dramatic boost to most of the demi's physical stats (something like 2x in Str, Dex, Con, PD, ED, SPD, and STUN; but -not- REC or END). This state is marked by 10x END usage per turn.

C) "The Boost" a temporary dramatic boost to any or all of demi's non physical stats and psionic skills. Again, 10x END per unit time.

 

All these abilities, and the demi's very life, are tied to a moral code called "The Construct" that forbids them to initiate violence or act in such a way as to entice others to initiate violence. They also must practice "measured response" and not overreact to violence or the threat of violence.

 

Violations of this Code, or even doubts as to whether they may have violated The Construct in some way, is likely to lead to a devastating mental and physical backlash when using or C) that often results in the demi's mind literally tearing itself apart and killing them.

 

In addition, demi's can "burn themselves out" with the same lethal results if they overreach themselves while using C).

 

Ideas on efficient construction techniques and ways to do all this?

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Need Help With a Character Concept

 

I'm trying to make some characters based on L.E. Modesitt Jr's _Adiamante_, particularly the concept known as a "demi". These are biologically and psionically enhanced humans with three distinct classes of abilities:

 

A) The standard super fare of higher characteristics (Think NCM with a maximum of 25 or 30 instead of 20) + linked telepathy to all other demi's + clairsentience + a wide range of skills

"Step Up" a temporary dramatic boost to most of the demi's physical stats (something like 2x in Str, Dex, Con, PD, ED, SPD, and STUN; but -not- REC or END). This state is marked by 10x END usage per turn.

C) "The Boost" a temporary dramatic boost to any or all of demi's non physical stats and psionic skills. Again, 10x END per unit time.

 

All these abilities, and the demi's very life, are tied to a moral code called "The Construct" that forbids them to initiate violence or act in such a way as to entice others to initiate violence. They also must practice "measured response" and not overreact to violence or the threat of violence.

 

Violations of this Code, or even doubts as to whether they may have violated The Construct in some way, is likely to lead to a devastating mental and physical backlash when using or C) that often results in the demi's mind literally tearing itself apart and killing them.

 

In addition, demi's can "burn themselves out" with the same lethal results if they overreach themselves while using C).

 

Ideas on efficient construction techniques and ways to do all this?

For some great ideas on how to build this take a look at the SAIYAJINS from DBZ on Susano/Michael Surbrook site: http://surbrook.devermore.net/dbzhero/dbzhero.html

 

HM

[Ki-rin]

Re: Need Help With a Character Concept

 

(yep, thumbs up for Surbrook's site. It's been one of my bookmarks for awhile.)

 

Hmmm. I find it... interesting... that the character concept based on "hard" Sci Fi (reasonably careful and accurate extrapolations of physics, etc) gets a reference to _DBZ_ (probably one of the most outrageously high powered and unrealistic Manga ever written) for design hints?! That's HERO for you (Or I wasn't careful enough with my description in my posting... )

 

Unlike Saiyajins, Modesitt's demi's are very human despite their extra abilities and -much- lower powered (None of the EB, flying, teleporting, > 30 Str, etc stuff from DBZ).

 

The moral code underlying all of their powers (they can't be demi's w/o it, it's fatal to violate it, it's in their very DNA) is a unique twist IME. Figure it's at least a (-1) Dis Ad / Limitation on the entire character

 

Side Note: Demi's are omniverous and can even hunt. They can kill other sentients with brutal efficiency and absolutely no remorse. They just can't start a fight nor escalate one.

 

These folks should be buildable on the standard 250 or 350 CP budget and not need the ~1000 CP budget of the surviving Saiyajins...

 

The problem with using Aid to model Step Up or The Boost is that it's variable while these effects are constant. I was thinking about an psychic END Reserve that recovers at their REC rate and is large enough to support the required Transfers from it to the appropriate characteristics and abilities. However, that gets expensive when we talk about +10 Str, +15 Dex (at least. Bottom line is that Stepped Up demi's go _first_ compared to anything not a Stepped Up demi.), +10 Con, +10 Bod, 2x SPD (say 4 to 8. Bottom line is that demi's go more often than anything not a Stepped Up demi), with significant boosts to PD, ED (both resistant), and STUN and/or Damage Reduction (main character and other demi's in street clothes fight cyborgs in combat armor HTH hitting and breaking metal weapons and punching through metal armor with their bare hands. And make the supposedly soup-ed up combat 'borgs look slow while in Step Up.)

 

Rereading the book, demi's definitely have an extensive MA package including +DC so they can do 2x their Stepped Up Str's damage dice as well as a large suite of skills.

 

Talents include Danger Sense (not mystical but it does utilize their telepathy and clairsentience as well as their physical senses), as well as the Talents of Time Sense, Direction Sense, Combat Sense, Defense Maneuver, Eidetic Memory, Fast Draw, Find Weakness, Lightning Calculator, Lightsleep, Luck (?maybe?), and Speed Reading.

 

Powers include Characteristics (only in Step Up or Boost), Clairsentience, Damage Reduction (?maybe?), Damage Resistance, Ego Attack, END Reserve (?IF this is how we model Step Up and Boost?), Enhanced Senses, Flash Defense, Life Support (immunity to a large class of diseases and poisons, higher radiation tolerance, long lived), Mental Defense, Mind Control (only beings less sentient), Mind Link (other demi's and demi computer net), Mind Scan, Missile Deflection, Power Defense, Regeneration (mild!), Running, Suppress (computer phenonmena), Telepathy, Transfer (?IF this is how we model Step Up and Boost?).

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Need Help With a Character Concept

 

...snip...

Unlike Saiyajins, Modesitt's demi's are very human despite their extra abilities and -much- lower powered (None of the EB, flying, teleporting, > 30 Str, etc stuff from DBZ).

...snip...

The problem with using Aid to model Step Up or The Boost is that it's variable while these effects are constant.

...snip...

The power I was hoping you would notice is this:

 

• 68 Super-Saiyajin Stage 1:
  
• Aid STR, DEX, CON, PD, ED, SPD, END, STUN, and Chi Powers 4d6, Can Add Maximum Of 30 Points, Delayed Return Rate (points fade at the rate of 5 Per 20 Minutes; +3/4), Variable Effect (+2); Extra Time (Full Phase; -1/2), Self Only (-1/2), Visible (brilliant burst of yellowish flame surrounds the Saiyajin; -1/4)
  

Oh well, I wasn't sure if you had seen the site. With regard to the variable results you can easily choose to use the Standard Effect rule for adjustment powers. Seems like a few adjustments on this build would be the simpliest approach without resorting to End Reserves.

 

HM

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need Help With a Character Concept

 

For Step-Up and Boost, you can still use Aid, and use the Stardard Effect Rule for consistant results. The thing I wouldn't like about using Aid (or any Adjustment Power) for this is because it makes it difficult to model the increased END requirements on the Characteristics that are boosted.

 

I would recomend simply figuring the Step-Up & Boost by buying Characteristics as Powers, each with Cost END (if necessary) and Increased END Cost (x10). Normally, I'm completely against Linking Characteristics to other Characteristics (afterall, you normally use them all simultaneously anyway), but in this case I think it's appropriate because it looks like you have to spend the END for all if it or you don't get any of it. If that's how it works then Linked would be fine. Alternately, you can create a Multipower and group each set of Characteristics into a different slots (one for Step Up and one for Boost).

 

As for their code, it sounds like Physical Limitation masquerading as a Psychological Lim. If the characters can actuall choose to violate their code (just aren't likely to), then it should be a Psych Lim with a Susc or Physical Lim that details the physical results of violating it. Alternatly it's just a Physical Limitation (can't violate moral code written into DNA).

 

Burning out could just be a Susc related to burning STUN for END. They can take BODY damage each time they do, which would have the possibility of killing them if they are unlucky or keep using STUN as END.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Need Help With a Character Concept

 

For Step-Up and Boost' date=' you can still use Aid, and use the Stardard Effect Rule for consistant results. The thing I wouldn't like about using Aid (or any Adjustment Power) for this is because it makes it difficult to model the increased END requirements on the Characteristics that are boosted.[/quote']

Well, you could possibly use a Succor instead (though this would be a slightly different model for the End cost). Or you could just define the increased End cost of the boosted Chars as a Side Effect.

 

I would recomend simply figuring the Step-Up & Boost by buying Characteristics as Powers, each with Cost END (if necessary) and Increased END Cost (x10). Normally, I'm completely against Linking Characteristics to other Characteristics (afterall, you normally use them all simultaneously anyway), but in this case I think it's appropriate because it looks like you have to spend the END for all if it or you don't get any of it. If that's how it works then Linked would be fine. Alternately, you can create a Multipower and group each set of Characteristics into a different slots (one for Step Up and one for Boost).

I agree. This sounds like a good way to handle it too.

 

As for their code, it sounds like Physical Limitation masquerading as a Psychological Lim. If the characters can actuall choose to violate their code (just aren't likely to), then it should be a Psych Lim with a Susc or Physical Lim that details the physical results of violating it. Alternatly it's just a Physical Limitation (can't violate moral code written into DNA).

It is also possible that the code could be or include Side Effects on the particular Powers in question that only occur, "under specific circumstances."

 

BTW, I would be careful about the distinction between, "hunting," and, "initiating a fight." I haven't read the story, so maybe it is better layed out than it appears here, but it sounds to me like a sticky point, especially if there are going to be players in control of these characters.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Need Help With a Character Concept

 

...linked telepathy to all other demi's...

Oh, and this just sounds like an expensive Mind Link.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need Help With a Character Concept

 

BTW' date=' I would be careful about the distinction between, "hunting," and, "initiating a fight." I haven't read the story, so maybe it is better layed out than it appears here, but it sounds to me like a sticky point, especially if there are going to be players in control of these characters.[/quote']

 

Agreed. Regardless of how it's represented on the Character Sheet, the code would need to be spelled out quite thoroughly so there can be little or no missunderstanding. It sounds like one of the Budhist codes about initiation violence though, so it shouldn't be too difficult. If someone tries to hit you, you can kick their ass. If someone tries to hit or harm someone else, you can choose to protect that person and kick the attacker's ass. If someone is threatening to harm someone, you have to wait until they actually try to acti violently (though you can use any non-voilnent means of preventing the violence so long as they don't start a fight). You can't walk up to people and say stuff like "is that your face or did you neck throw up?" or otherwise taunt them into starting a fight.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Need Help With a Character Concept

 

Agreed. Regardless of how it's represented on the Character Sheet' date=' the code would need to be spelled out quite thoroughly so there can be little or no missunderstanding. It sounds like one of the Budhist codes about initiation violence though, so it shouldn't be too difficult. If someone tries to hit you, you can kick their ass. If someone tries to hit or harm someone else, you can choose to protect that person and kick the attacker's ass. If someone is threatening to harm someone, you have to wait until they actually try to acti violently (though you can use any non-voilnent means of preventing the violence so long as they don't start a fight). You can't walk up to people and say stuff like "is that your face or did you neck throw up?" or otherwise taunt them into starting a fight.[/quote']

And how will we define, "hunting?" That is the one I was wondering a bit about. I guess it all depends on your philosophy, and that of your game's universe. If you are only allowed to hunt, "animals," and, "animals," are somehow well defined as different from humans or other, "sentients," I suppose this works.

 

We don't need to get into it, but I think those Buddhists you mention might not draw such a thick line between, "human," and, "animal," as Western philosophies tend to. They do not believe in harming, "sentient beings," after all, and tie, "sentient," closely with the concept of reincarnation and such things. In a universe where there may be a very obviously fine scale of intelligences, drawing a line might become even more difficult.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need Help With a Character Concept

 

And how will we define, "hunting?" That is the one I was wondering a bit about. I guess it all depends on your philosophy, and that of your game's universe. If you are only allowed to hunt, "animals," and, "animals," are somehow well defined as different from humans or other, "sentients," I suppose this works.

 

We don't need to get into it, but I think those Buddhists you mention might not draw such a thick line between, "human," and, "animal," as Western philosophies tend to. They do not believe in harming, "sentient beings," after all, and tie, "sentient," closely with the concept of reincarnation and such things. In a universe where there may be a very obviously fine scale of intelligences, drawing a line might become even more difficult.

 

Mmm... the Buddhists I believe are vegitarians and don't hunt in any case, and probably because of an aspect of this code. The unnecesary destruction of life (and violance in general) is what they will never do, and if they are't gonna eat the animal they won't have any reason to kill it.

 

"hunting" brings up an interesting thought though. What about Hunting, as in a disad (Hunts Nasty Evil Bad Guy Man)? If you know the guy is evil and will constantly hurt others, has in the past, and is a danger to those around him, would it be okay to just walk up and take him out if he's just standing there minding his own business? Since I don't know the specifics of the actual code we're talking about I wouldn't know. Could make an interesting encounter though.

[Ki-rin]

Re: Need Help With a Character Concept

 

Me: "Demi's are omniverous and can even hunt. They can kill other sentients with brutal efficiency and absolutely no remorse. They just can't start a fight nor escalate one."

 

The "hunting" in question was for food. As for "Hunting" as in the flip side of the Dis Ad, there are at least 4 very clear incidents in the book:

 

a) a cyborg military unit which was part of invading ground forces was Hunted. And slaughtered with exception of a few witnesses left alive on purpose. The cyborgs as a whole had attacked, this unit had shown hostile intent, but had not yet attacked anyone.

 

a member of the same unit had previously commited a personal act of nonlethal violence vs a non-demi normal (called "draffs" plural, "a draff" singular, ITB) and was captured by a demi, physically restrained and returned to cyborg command with an explicit warning that said cyb was no longer welcome on Earth. That cyb never did return to Earth. The individual incident was while the cybs were baiting the demis but before the outbreak of warfare.

 

c) Again while the cybs were baiting the demis but before the outbreak of warfare, cyb commando units attempted to sabotage critical services in two of Earth's cities.

in both cases demis killed the commandos once they had made the attempt (although the cybs started shooting at live targets as soon as the demis showed up to investigate the sabatoge attempts, so it's not clear what the demis could/would have done if the cybs had restricted themselves to attempts at property damage.)

 

d) Once the entire cyb fleet was destroyed, the demis sent the (few) surviving cybs back to the their homeworld (called "Gates", I kid you not) with the explicit warning that given prior cyb actions that should another cyb fleet come within strike range of the Solar System, the demis would consider it an Act of War and respond with lethal force immediately without waiting for the cybs to make any other act.

 

The point here is that The Construct is a complex moral code that I think might be a very interesting plot and campaign development device, but I need to model it clearly in game terms. And it's a big Dis Ad. The demis know before the cybs do what the cybs are going to do yet can't do or say anything provocative or more violent than the cybs do. Entire cities end up nuked that could have been saved had the demis been allowed to act faster. The demis do destroy ~15,000 cybs and their entire war fleet of 12 starships, but at the cost of about 1 +million+ demis and the aforementioned nuking. All of which could have been avoided if The Construct was less restrictive.

 

One of the other interesting points alluded to in _Adiamante_ is that The Construct is not static. It can, has, and will evolve based on its effectiveness. Yet must remain true to its fundamental spirit of peace. It's noted that at least one of the demi philosophers will be spending decades after the events of the book trying to figure out how The Construct can evolve so as to remain The Construct yet allow the demis a better set of choices should a similar situation ever re-occur.

 

...And yes, I'm seriously thinking about running a campaign where this is the primary moral code of the "super" PCs.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Need Help With a Character Concept

 

The point here is that The Construct is a complex moral code that I think might be a very interesting plot and campaign development....

Yes. It sounds quite fun and interesting. I'll have to read the book(s?).

 

Me: "Demi's are omniverous and can even hunt. They can kill other sentients with brutal efficiency and absolutely no remorse. They just can't start a fight nor escalate one."

 

The "hunting" in question was for food.

 

...And yes, I'm seriously thinking about running a campaign where this is the primary moral code of the "super" PCs.

Oh! Gotcha. So as long as my character decides to start eating the people he kills.... LOL. I just have to deal with players who argue like that. I couldn't help throwing it in.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Need Help With a Character Concept

 

I like the author's series...I can't remember what the series itself is called ("Fire and Ice," maybe?), or the name of first book, but the second and third are, "A Clash of Kings," and, "A Storm of Swords" (though I also forget if that is the correct order). He has a pretty brutal way of slaughtering his own main characters and storylines, but it I find it an interesting and unique style.

[Ki-rin]

Re: Need Help With a Character Concept

 

Yes. It sounds quite fun and interesting. I'll have to read the book(s?).

"book" very unfortunately. I wish he'd written some others in that universe.

 

Oh! Gotcha. So as long as my character decides to start eating the people he kills.... LOL. I just have to deal with players who argue like that. I couldn't help throwing it in.

*sigh* So do I. So do I.

 

Thankfully, it's fairly clear that as soon as another critter is of at least the same level of sentience as a human, they are protected by the terms of The Construct...

 

The demis call for the defense of Earth is "The Construct has been Violated."

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need Help With a Character Concept

 

Me: "Demi's are omniverous and can even hunt. They can kill other sentients with brutal efficiency and absolutely no remorse. They just can't start a fight nor escalate one."

 

The "hunting" in question was for food. As for "Hunting" as in the flip side of the Dis Ad, there are at least 4 very clear incidents in the book:

Ah, yes. Okay, I missed that above. Thought you has said "can't" and forgot for omniverous meant. Time for me to take another brain pill...

 

cyborg vs. demi this and that...

 

...And yes, I'm seriously thinking about running a campaign where this is the primary moral code of the "super" PCs.

 

That's cool. So they can't take any kind of preventitive steps to avoid a voilent situation, even if the agressor is known and his actions fortold. Well, at least up until the agressor becomes so agressive that they just say STOP we have no choice but to view your presence as destructive and will kill you if come too close to us. Sounds interesting, and quite the delema for a hero who knows that unless he violates The Construct, the Construct will be violated.

[Ki-rin]

Re: Need Help With a Character Concept

 

So they can't take any kind of preventative steps to avoid a violent situation, even if the aggressor is known and his actions foretold.

...Up to a point. Once the cybs had attacked Earth with a battle fleet once, the demis made it quite clear that given the cybs prior actions, it would be considered an Act of War by the cybs to bring a fleet anywhere near Earth... ...and that the demi's would destroy it on sight.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Need Help With a Character Concept

 

...Up to a point. Once the cybs had attacked Earth with a battle fleet once' date=' the demis made it quite clear that given the cybs prior actions, it would be considered an Act of War by the cybs to bring a fleet anywhere near Earth... ...and that the demi's would destroy it on sight.[/quote']

 

Kinda makes me wonder what these guys would do in a superhero world when Dr. Destroyer pops on TV to tell everyone he's got an orbital laser to "cull" the world's population by half (killing nearly 3 billion people). Would it make any difference to the demi is Dr. D says he's only doing this as a last resort to cure overcrowding and planetary resource depletion?