Quick Enraged Questions

[Wanderer]

Just to be sure I understand the rules well, if a character has Enraged (NOT Berserk)...

 

And Knocks Out or kills each and every possible "appropriate" target related to the original one (all those who insulted/wounded him, plus their minions and equipment), yet he still doesn't manage to break out of Enraged (well, it may happen), does he snap out of rage anyway, or has to start breaking up nearby stuff ? can he keep friends and bystanders safe in any case ?

 

If the character hasn't yet managed to defeat at least one target, but reaches the end of the Turn, can he still try to recover from Enraged?

 

If the character runs out of End, yet doesn't manage to recover, must he start spending STUN, or can he take a Recovery ? Can a character take a Recovery while Enraged ? Has he to roll in any case ?

 

Can an Enraged character use a multiple-power Attack (especially if that would be its most powerful attack) ?

[Mentor]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

These are my opinion/SFX answers rather than rule answers, OK?

 

If the behavior that triggered the PC's Enraged is still occuring at the end of the turn, (innocents still being attacked, dogs being kicked, etc.) then I doubt that an automatic chance to break the Disad is justified. Even were it to occur, the GM would just have to roll the Enraged again, if one accepts the "dice rule all" premise of gaming.

 

One might justify a greater threat than the "women being mistreated'' as sufficient rationale to give the player a chance, but IMO, the reason Enraged is a Disad is that it makes you attack out of temper rather than out of logic, so I might let the roll take place, but as above, reroll next phase if the PC breaks out of the Enraged.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

Just to be sure I understand the rules well, if a character has Enraged (NOT Berserk)...

 

And Knocks Out or kills each and every possible "appropriate" target related to the original one (all those who insulted/wounded him, plus their minions and equipment), yet he still doesn't manage to break out of Enraged (well, it may happen), does he snap out of rage anyway, or has to start breaking up nearby stuff ? can he keep friends and bystanders safe in any case ?

 

As I recall, he still needs to attack something, but can vent his fury on, say, the sidewalk, a mailbox, a nearby tree, etc. Enraged was originally added as a reduced form of Berserk, so "attack something relevant, and only attack something irrelevant when nothing relevant is left" became an option. He does stay enraged, but he does not attack the nearest target, frioend or foe, as a berserk chadacter would.

 

If the character hasn't yet managed to defeat at least one target' date=' but reaches the end of the Turn, can he still try to recover from Enraged?[/quote']

 

As I recall, the end of turn breakout roll applies only once the the original trigger stimulus has been removed.

 

If the character runs out of End' date=' yet doesn't manage to recover, must he start spending STUN, or can he take a Recovery ? Can a character take a Recovery while Enraged ? Has he to roll in any case ?[/quote']

 

Spend Stun - an enraged character attacks with his best attack form. You don't think about exhaustion - you're enraged. The key drawback here is that you will keep fighting (or doing environmental damage) until you control your rage (ie make the breakout roll) or exhaust yourself to the point you can no longer move (ie run out of Stun from END usage).

 

Can an Enraged character use a multiple-power Attack (especially if that would be its most powerful attack) ?

 

I don't see why not. And if it's the most powerful attack, I suggest it would pretty much be mandatory.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

Just to be sure I understand the rules well, if a character has Enraged (NOT Berserk)...

 

And Knocks Out or kills each and every possible "appropriate" target related to the original one (all those who insulted/wounded him, plus their minions and equipment), yet he still doesn't manage to break out of Enraged (well, it may happen), does he snap out of rage anyway, or has to start breaking up nearby stuff ? can he keep friends and bystanders safe in any case ?

If the character is Enraged, he might not realize that is tagets are all knocked out or dead and continue to attack them. It would make sense that he would simply change targets if one is moving and and one is not, but if all his targets are motionless he'll just keep attacking the nearest one until he breaks the roll or is physically restrained (or runs our of END/STUN).

 

If the character hasn't yet managed to defeat at least one target, but reaches the end of the Turn, can he still try to recover from Enraged?

Then no chance of breaking out. Enraged is a disad because if makes the character lose control. There isn't much functional difference between attacking for a turn and not not knocking your enemy down and doing the exact same thing while really really mad. Maybe after one turn you'll realize the fight can't be won and you'd back down. But with Enraged, you are out of control and must keep attacking. If you can just stop because it's taking too long it's not really a Disadvanage.

 

If the character runs out of End, yet doesn't manage to recover, must he start spending STUN, or can he take a Recovery ? Can a character take a Recovery while Enraged ? Has he to roll in any case ?

I'd say he'd have to start burning STUN. As I said above, he's out of control and won't stop until he takes down his target(s) or is prevented from doing so. After knocking himself out (and thus getting a Recovery the next Phase), I'd give him a breakout roll. If his still Enraged, he's gonna get right back up and at 'em. If not, his anger was spend along with his energy.

Can an Enraged character use a multiple-power Attack (especially if that would be its most powerful attack) ?

 

I don't see why not. A character has only lost control of his anger, not necessarily his wits or tactics. Of course, an enraged character will most likely take the most direct/easiest/simplest route to putting down his target(s). If a MPA does that, he'd certainly us it. If not, he'll likely stick to stuff he's better at or more accumsted to.

[Ki-rin]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

Ummm, the "official" write-ups on Berserk and Enraged were _quite_ clear that a Berserk or Enraged character =has= lost his wits and tactical sense.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

Ummm' date=' the "official" write-ups on Berserk and Enraged were _quite_ clear that a Berserk or Enraged character =has= lost his wits and tactical sense.[/quote']

 

I view that as losing the perspective to see this is a lost cause, to seek cover, or to fight defensively. You'll attack as hard as you can, as often as you can, without regard for personal safety.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

Ummm' date=' the "official" write-ups on Berserk and Enraged were _quite_ clear that a Berserk or Enraged character =has= lost his wits and tactical sense.[/quote']

 

I would read that as common sense, good judgement and sense of strategy. An Enraged character won't make a poor decision about how to wup some ass, but will make a poor decision on whether or not to wup some ass.

[Wanderer]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

If the character is Enraged' date=' he might not realize that is tagets are all knocked out or dead and continue to attack them. It would make sense that he would simply change targets if one is moving and and one is not, but if all his targets are motionless he'll just keep attacking the nearest one until he breaks the roll or is physically restrained (or runs our of END/STUN). [/quote']

 

But every time an Enraged character defeats a target, he switches to a different related target. Once he defeats them all, following your reasoning, he should keep pounding the body of his last enemy (or starting wrecking nearby stuff). What I wished to sure of, in no case he should be obliged to attack friends and bystanders. That should be one of the main differences between Enraged and berserk, right ??

 

 

Then no chance of breaking out. Enraged is a disad because if makes the character lose control. There isn't much functional difference between attacking for a turn and not not knocking your enemy down and doing the exact same thing while really really mad. Maybe after one turn you'll realize the fight can't be won and you'd back down. But with Enraged, you are out of control and must keep attacking. If you can just stop because it's taking too long it's not really a Disadvanage.

 

However, 5edr says that the character can attempt to recover at end of turn if he hasn't attempted to recover in that turn (that means he hasn't defeated the enemy or run out of End in that turn yet). I might agree with your position, but then means that after downing at least one enemy, the character is free to use the end of turn recovery attempt while the fighting the second and subsequent targets.

 

I'd say he'd have to start burning STUN. As I said above, he's out of control and won't stop until he takes down his target(s) or is prevented from doing so. After knocking himself out (and thus getting a Recovery the next Phase), I'd give him a breakout roll. If his still Enraged, he's gonna get right back up and at 'em. If not, his anger was spend along with his energy.

 

Following your trail of thought, that would mean with a difficult to break out of (8-) enraged the character will have a sequence of 1-2 Phases where he runs out of END and STUN, goes into deeply Stunned mild KO, takes a Recovery, exausts the little energy he has recovered in a couple attacks, and so on until he finally calms himself down. Apart from the fact that with a sequence of mild KO Phases, it's extremely likely that an incoming attack will bring him down into complete unconsciousness , that seems to somehow run against common sense. Going into KO should automatically exaust even the deepest anger, IMO.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

But every time an Enraged character defeats a target' date=' he switches to a different related target. Once he defeats them all, following your reasoning, he should keep pounding the body of his last enemy (or starting wrecking nearby stuff). What I wished to sure of, in no case he should be obliged to attack friends and bystanders. That should be one of the main differences between Enraged and berserk, right ??[/quote']

I just checked the book (I'm still using 5E, not 5ER, but I'm assuming nothing's changed, if it has please let me know). It says once he's "finished" with his target. That's very vague. "Finished" could be KOed, killed, pulverized, eaten the heart and brain of, etc. Really depends on the character who's Enraged and the situation. In any case, it is still possible to attack friends and allies. Berserk just makes it more likely. When he switches targets, he gets a breakout roll. If this is failed, to moves onto a target that is the most closely related to his original target. If all there are is friends when this happens, he'll strike out against the friend that is most closely related to the original target (which could mean anything, but it is possible to strike a friend when Enraged).

However, 5edr says that the character can attempt to recover at end of turn if he hasn't attempted to recover in that turn (that means he hasn't defeated the enemy or run out of End in that turn yet). I might agree with your position, but then means that after downing at least one enemy, the character is free to use the end of turn recovery attempt while the fighting the second and subsequent targets.

Well, if you knew the answer to this one I don't know why you asked it. You are quite correct, however.

Following your trail of thought, that would mean with a difficult to break out of (8-) enraged the character will have a sequence of 1-2 Phases where he runs out of END and STUN, goes into deeply Stunned mild KO, takes a Recovery, exausts the little energy he has recovered in a couple attacks, and so on until he finally calms himself down. Apart from the fact that with a sequence of mild KO Phases, it's extremely likely that an incoming attack will bring him down into complete unconsciousness , that seems to somehow run against common sense. Going into KO should automatically exaust even the deepest anger, IMO.

 

I would say "could" as opposed to "should". Venting until you are exhausted is a very effective method of becoming calm again (or at least getting under control), but I've known people that have been so angry they don't (or can't) quit, even when they are incappable of further venting (which might just be an Enraged when helpless, and they have to keep making rolls because they are helpless at near 0 END and STUN).

[Wanderer]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

Well, if you knew the answer to this one I don't know why you asked it. You are quite correct, however.

 

Because I'm not completely sure sure the end-of-turn free recovery attempt would be allowable if you haven't finished the *original* target.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

Because I'm not completely sure sure the end-of-turn free recovery attempt would be allowable if you haven't finished the *original* target.

 

Ah, well in that case, my previous answer was wrong. You do still get the Roll, so long as you haven't made one yet that Turn (and if had finished the target, you would have gotten a roll).

[prestidigitator]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

I would read that as common sense' date=' good judgement and sense of strategy. An Enraged character won't make a poor decision about how to wup some ass, but will make a poor decision on whether or not to wup some ass.[/quote']

I tend to think of it as a character losing control of his logical mind and acting on an instinctual level based on his/her anger. Acting logically (as opposed to instintually) is no longer an option. The degree to which the character can be tactful is really up to the GM, but I'm sure the tactics cannot be very complex.

 

I would say that using a MPA against your target is pretty likely, as it is throwing everything you've got at them. But personally I would probably allow a character to take a Recovery or conserve some End, as long as it was obviously necessary to continue attacking in a destructive way (and not just for self preservation or as a way of backing down). I'm sure others differ, and I think this range of creative GMing is great, so use what works for ya!

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

Following your trail of thought' date=' that would mean with a difficult to break out of (8-) enraged the character will have a sequence of 1-2 Phases where he runs out of END and STUN, goes into deeply Stunned mild KO, takes a Recovery, exausts the little energy he has recovered in a couple attacks, and so on until he finally calms himself down. Apart from the fact that with a sequence of mild KO Phases, it's extremely likely that an incoming attack will bring him down into complete unconsciousness , that seems to somehow run against common sense. Going into KO should automatically exaust even the deepest anger, IMO.[/quote']

 

Should it? Don't we see people recover from KO in action movies and lurch forward, still enraged by the last thing they remember before being KO'd? To use a classic Source Material example, that's Captain America recovering in Avengers and immediately attacking because, in his mind, he's still trying to rescue Bucky.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

I tend to think of it as a character losing control of his logical mind and acting on an instinctual level based on his/her anger. Acting logically (as opposed to instintually) is no longer an option. The degree to which the character can be tactful is really up to the GM, but I'm sure the tactics cannot be very complex.

 

I would say that using a MPA against your target is pretty likely, as it is throwing everything you've got at them. But personally I would probably allow a character to take a Recovery or conserve some End, as long as it was obviously necessary to continue attacking in a destructive way (and not just for self preservation or as a way of backing down). I'm sure others differ, and I think this range of creative GMing is great, so use what works for ya!

 

That's true. It really depends though. The Disadvantage is a bit fuzzy in definition of what a character can do. All it really tells us is what a character can't do. Of course, if a character had two guns, one drawn and one holstered, he wouldn't necessarily think to draw the second gun for more firepower. If he had a gun with several types of ammo, he wouldn't necessarily think to change to a more effective ammo to suit the target. Then again, he just might.

 

Another thing I've always wondered about was Pushing. Would an Enraged character Push his attack (if possible)? If not, why wouldn't he?

[Wanderer]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

Should it? Don't we see people recover from KO in action movies and lurch forward' date=' still enraged by the last thing they remember before being KO'd? To use a classic Source Material example, that's Captain America recovering in Avengers and immediately attacking because, in his mind, he's still trying to rescue Bucky.[/quote']

 

The genre bit is an excellent argument, but as far as I remember these characters in movies and comic *always* calm down and realize the situation after the people nearby physically restrain them and/or talk to them a bit, so following the genre example, one should rule that the first recover roll after awakening from KO is *always* automatically successful.

[Dust Raven]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

The genre bit is an excellent argument' date=' but as far as I remember these characters in movies and comic *always* calm down and realize the situation after the people nearby physically restrain them and/or talk to them a bit, so following the genre example, one should rule that the first recover roll after awakening from KO is *always* automatically successful. [/quote']

 

The same characters seem to almost always go enraged when their trigger show up too. You can just as easily say that is automatic. Personally, I just view it as a constant attempt to break the guy out of it, and eventually that roll is made. If several people are trying to help break him out of it, he can essentialy make several attempts on the same Phase.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

The same characters seem to almost always go enraged when their trigger show up too. You can just as easily say that is automatic. Personally' date=' I just view it as a constant attempt to break the guy out of it, and eventually that roll is made. If several people are trying to help break him out of it, he can essentialy make several attempts on the same Phase.[/quote']

 

Ditto. The writer decides when the character becomes enraged, when he resists and when he recovers. In the game, we relegate this role to the dice (trusting neither player nor GM with this awesome power). And if the Avengers are piling on a character in my game, my answer's probably "qiot rolling - you eventually come out of it and you can't do any harm in the meantime."

[prestidigitator]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

Would an Enraged character Push his attack (if possible)? If not' date=' why wouldn't he?[/quote']

No, because you are only supposed to be able to Push when it is heroic (and maybe self-sacrificial) to do so.

 

People on the forums seem to bring up Pushing a lot (e.g. "Well, I'll just Push it, and then I can do this much damage!"). You don't just Push it. You have to be saving The City, or getting in the way of a run-away train to stop it from mangling grandma, or something like that. I'd be willing to bet that most of the time, an Enraged character can't be considered to be being very, "heroic" (though there may certainly be exceptions).

[Dust Raven]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

No, because you are only supposed to be able to Push when it is heroic (and maybe self-sacrificial) to do so.

 

People on the forums seem to bring up Pushing a lot (e.g. "Well, I'll just Push it, and then I can do this much damage!"). You don't just Push it. You have to be saving The City, or getting in the way of a run-away train to stop it from mangling grandma, or something like that. I'd be willing to bet that most of the time, an Enraged character can't be considered to be being very, "heroic" (though there may certainly be exceptions).

 

That's a better response than I expected actually. Thank you.

 

Of course, I do handle Pushing a little differently. What good and how more heroic is an extra 2d6 (7 more STUN... ooh, ahh) when your are already tossing around 10-12 or more dice? I call what the book calls Pushing "extra effort" which characters can do at any time on a whim. Pushing requires an EGO roll and you gain +5 AP in the Pushed Power for each point you make the roll by (plus the 10 points for extra effort). The drawback is that whatever Power you Push like this get's Drained the amount you pushed by when you're action is over (doesn't just eat END, it litterally drains you).

[DangerousDan]

Re: Quick Enraged Questions

 

If the character is Enraged' date=' he might not realize that is tagets are all knocked out or dead and continue to attack them. It would make sense that he would simply change targets if one is moving and and one is not, but if all his targets are motionless he'll just keep attacking the nearest one until he breaks the roll or is physically restrained (or runs our of END/STUN).[/quote']

 

I could easily see an enraged character venting on inanimate objects, all the while shouting, "I hate it when they _________. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it." Cut to scene of parked Hummer that will never again go anywhere under its own power.

 

But other than that, we all seem to agree on what enraged amounts to. There is no requirement that the merely enraged character must start hurting teammates or innocents. The fully Berzerk character will, however, according to the rules mistake anyone standing nearby as a target.